DZ1000 VS DZ2500????

http://www.rossswitches.com/te...cal/zmacinstruct.jpg

I don't have any DZ motors, but experience with some who have had both the 1000 and 2500 would make me lean towards the DZ1000. I think that setup would be the most like your K-Line ones.

Thanks: did not see that page, I only saw a multi-page price list.

 

One question down, 1000 vs 2500 to go!

 

thanks - walt

also...go to the bay and type in

K-LINE-O-GUAGE-K-0375-42-LEFT-HAND-REMOTE-SWITCH

Walt,

Can you guys help me decide which I need/want??

Some differences between the DZ1000 and DZ2500 switch machines:

• The DZ1000s are less expensive
• The DZ1000s sit a bit higher than do the DZ2500s, Typically, the height is not a problem except with some engines, such as a few MTH subways, whose 3rd rail shoe can hit the top of a screw that secures the motor to the train table, although not the DZ1000 itself. This can generally be avoided by either placement of the motor or beveling the screw hole in the DZ1000
• The DZ2500 can use an extra-cost data wire driver to talk to a TMCC or Legacy system without being wired to anything except power. However, if you plan to use an AIU or pushbutton control, this doesn't gain you anything
• The DZ1000 can be operated manually at the motor itself. I don't know if the same is true for the DZ2500
• The DZ1000 has a 2-button controller and the DZ2500 has a 1-button controller.

I 'think' I remember reading that Ross' switches do not have a non-derailing capability like me K-Line ones do.  Is that correct???

The Ross switches can be wired for automatic non-derailing and also for signaling by adding an extra-cost DZ1008 relay, as shown on the Ross website.

Thanks for the full explanation Barry.

Have you checked ready made toys?

 

http://www.readymadetoys.com/susntruma520.html

The DZ-2500 can be operated at the switch motor itself if you have the power on.  Some of the earlier DZ-2500s were erratic and caused some folks to switch back to the older style DZ1000.  I don't know if that problem has been solved because I have not bought any for several years.

.....

Dennis

I have 18 Ross switches with dz2500 switch machines.  For the most part, they work well.  I've only had one bad one out of the box that I had to send back to ZStuff.  Currently they are up to revision C of the switch machines and all the contacts inside the motor are now gold plated.  This seems to have fixed a lot of the early issues. The 2500s do not have a manual mode. They are non-derailing just like the dz1000s.

I have 52 DZ 1000 motors. They work ok, and are much more reliable then the 2500. I tried two of the 2500's, but both "smoked" and died not long after I installed them. Altough Ross sales them, I do not think Ross is too pleased with the performance of the Z 2500. I never had a chance to try the TMCC feture.

 

The Z 1000 will also stop working, or the motor will spin and not ingage the switch at times. At least for a little more the $20 you pull them out and replace them. Go with the Z 1000.

 

Richard

I have 15 dz 2500 switch machines wired to both ross and atlas turnouts. They have performed pretty much perfectly since I installed them 2 years ago. They are running on legacy with the data wire driver.

Ron

Walt
We experimented with the dz2500 and found them to be very problematic.  We had 50 of them Problems we encountered. 1- when connected on crossovers they tended to throw by themselves causing many cornfield meets. 2- they can't be thrown manually. They do have a button on the motor to throw them but if there is a problem with it you are sol. 3- if using the data wire driver for tmcc if one switch hangs up the wire they all stop working. 4- a few of them just smoked 5- a few of them stripped the internals.    The dz1000 is much better. The problem Barry stated with the screw on some engines can be fixed by installing a flat head instead of macine head screw.  They can be wired for no derailing without any extra relays by using isolated rails.   I vote for the dz1000.  We currently have 340 of them

Walt,

Seeing that you like 027 and K Line I do have a suggestion.  A few years ago Ross came out with a Tinplate switch.  Still with the DZ1000 but this switch does not have some of the problems of hanging up on sliding shoes or operating operating cars as it goes over the switch.  They do not look as "hi rail" as their regular line but may be just what you want.

 

Paul Edgar

Those great Tinplate style switches work great  but:   They are "O" Gauge, Not 0-27.  They are higher like Lionels 0-31 is higher than 0-27

I've had many problems with the DZ2500 and plan to use the DZ1000 from now on.

Richard,

or the motor will spin and not ingage the switch at times

That's a 10 minute DIY fix.

Walt, do yourself a favor and go with Tortiose switch machines. they NEVER break or give you problems.

I agree with John. My club has been using Tortoise motors for many years without a problem. The're a little more difficult to install but once installed they are very reliable.

Ditto. The only issue I've had is with one of the motors. Dennis replaced it. I used them first with TMCC CAB1, then Legacy and now CAB1L using the data wire driver.

 

I did have one incident with a Ross #6 crossover where the switches activated somehow causing an engine to cross over to the inside loop unintentionally but it only happened once. Don't know what the cause was but it never happened again.

 

they only show 31" and 72" but thank you for suggesting it.

 

- walt

Paul, thank you for your comments.  The one about the sliding shoes getting hung up is ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT to me because all of my tin-plate rolling stock have sliding shoes, which allows for remote uncoupling.

 

- walt

Kind of problematic for a floor layout.  But thanks for offering a suggestion.

 

- walt

Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions - every one of them.  They all were informative and helpful.

 

Barry, Thanks for taking the time to write up the detailed explanation.  You're like my personal train tutor!

 

What's funny to me is that most, not all, of the comments say to use the DZ1000.  So what's funny about that?  That they are $10 cheaper per switch.  I guess the TMCC direct link to the 2500 involves more complicated electronics so it's a higher price.

 

The sliding shoe comment that Paul made has me concerned a bit.  I talk with Steve at every York, if for no other reason than to continually thank him for starting the sponsorship thing here, so I'm sure he'll advise me properly.

 

I'm think 1000 though.

 

As always, thanks - walt

Walt, tortoise machines can be mounted anywhere, under table, on top or hidden in a building or any scenery item.

Walt, they can be mounted anywhere in all kinds of positions. under table, on top or hidden in a building or scenery item. does not have to be close to the switch either.

Maybe they aren't what I'm picturing then.  I'm picturing kind of a cubical shaped device not some low-profile machine like I need.

 

I'll look them up and check them out.

 

thanks - walt

Walt. Tortoise need dc voltage. They can be wired for non derailing but not a quick throw as your used to with the lionel

Thirteen of my 18 Ross switches have the DZ-1000 (the other five have manual throws).

 

One thing I found was that since I run conventionally, I needed more voltage to properly throw the switches than I got from the accessory post on my transformer, so I wired my DZ-1000's to a postwar transformer with a higher voltage (16 - 18 volts).  I have also used powdered Teflon to keep the motors lubricated.

 

Jim

I wouldn't crank the voltage too much on the DZ1000   Higher voltage causes the poits to bounce from a hard hit    The harder hits all cause the drive gear to strip

Barry,

 

What is the fix for the spinning motor?   I tried searching and did not find a previous topic on the forum.   I have several and wound up replacing them with new motors, but kept incase there was some fix.   

 

 

Chris,

What is the fix for the spinning motor?

Open the DZ1000 (small screws on bottom), remove 2 small screws to lift out the motor, slide the collar back onto the shaft, and put everything back together.

Barry,

 

Thanks.   I will try that on my spinning motors.  

 

 

I also ran the 5 switches with DZ 2500s on my Christmas layout a few years back. It doesn't sound like anything special except the switches were Fastrack Manuals on carpet. They performed flawlessly there also.

Ron

A nice thing about having the DZ-1000's on a separate transformer is that you can slowly dial up the voltage until the points snap.  Fourteen volts (the default accessory voltage on my larger transformer) would cause the points of the switch to sometimes move only part-way.

 

Jim

Jim, that's an interesting, personally, comment about 14V not being enough to reliably operate the DZ1000!!!  I use a newer MRC Dual (whatever else it's called) and have been using the fixed voltage on it for power to all of my switches.  I would assume it's 14V.

 

Why does it seem like so many train decisions get complicated so often?!!!!!

 

- walt

I put in 29 of the dz 2500s back when they first came out. I put them in because I have a floor layout  and only required laying 2 wires under my track( mounted on 1/4 in plywood track base. This may sound trivial but I did it on a 13' by 40' layout! I have had nothing but trouble with the dz 2500s and finally switched to dz 1000s last year. It takes a lot of frustration to make such a switch change!! I am very satisfied with the 1000s over this year!!

stan

Walt,

 

I believe that the MRC Dual accessory post is 14V, as that is what I use to power my layout as well. 

 

Initially I used the accessory post to power my DZ-1000's, but I had a couple of units that wouldn't throw the points on the Ross turnouts all the way.  I then checked the wire from the motors, and lubricated the motors with powder Teflon. Even doing this, the points didn't always throw completely.  I ended up digging out an old postwar Lionel transformer and cranked up the power until all these point moved correctly.  Seems it was somewhere around 16 volts on my layout.

 

Jim

Years ago after getting frustrated with my Lionel O72 switches I took them out and replaced them with Ross switches. I started out with the DZ-1000. About that time the DZ-2500 was introduced so I traded them in for DZ-2500’s because I wanted to be able to operate the switches from my CAB-1.

 I had nothing but trouble with the 2500’s. I heard that the 2500C was an improvement over the original 2500, so once again I traded them in. The 2500C was  an improvement but still somewhat trouble prone. I still use 14 of the 2500C’s, but I wish I had stayed with the DZ-1000’s.

Walt

We throw all of our DZ-1000 motors with the 14 v fixed ports off of the Z4000 transformers.  If the motor is adjusted right, the mechanics are well lubed and the switch points aren't binding you do not need more voltage.  The higher voltage causes more problems than it solves.  Premature wear of the switch point throw bar, bent points, bouncing points, and stripped gears are some of them  All 336 motors use 14 volt fixed