Early Piggyback project (1940-1957) late steam early diesel & some of the very first 85-89' cars in 1957-1959!

Lehigh Valley Railroad posted:

Amazing work all.

 

What is everyone using for trailers now?

Anyone have a source for the first gear, tarped trailers? The open like the Berkshire valley kits?

Thanks

Thank you Lehigh Valley appreciate it 

Those new Lionel trailers are the topic coming up here, standby I will attempt a shoot this month. I have been backed up so bad the last month. 

the 85' flats are featured prototype for building in the latest MRC mag (July).

I thought about your train and now I see it again! Thanks for sharing this work.

Very looooooong flat cars! 'never seen such a length for freight cars (here in my country!)

More, you have not the same rail gauge than us! these as loaded trailing trucks would scrape our tunnel portals or would act as pantographs under the catenary!!!!!! 

Awesome! 

jpv in France

Erik,

I finally have figured out how you compose your photos but it take 35 pages to try and explain. Great compositing, lighting, and depth of field. You are a master.

Dick

Here is a photo of an Illinois Terminal flat in their engine and caboose paint scheme. The trucks were bright silver when new. Jim.

Nice 645 

645 posted:

FYI - Kalmbach has a new book out (June 2017) on piggyback and container traffic:  

I can't really use this book as the RR I model (though it almost pioneered TOFC) wasn't using it by the time I model it.

Still, I am curious if it lists my modeled RR's TOFC attempts in the 30s:

I have returned to the project a little and will add some photos as I work through the inventory of trailers and cars. 

Dunno if this Pennsy promo film has been put up yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP3w9gAYwls

Here's some colorful trailer action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fNOuSj3ZAs

These extremely interesting CRIP models were built by Chris Cliborn for Jim seacrest. And they are magnificent all brass rebuilds from Pecos River Brass’s prototype exactly as the 1:1. I could not pass them up. 

I ordered a copy, excited to get it. There are so many repeats and not enough reference as a general rule. 

Ive found the best reference for me comes from the various picture books of specific railroads by Morning Sun and Four ways West for example. Equipment guides for example seem to focus on specific cars not seen is “piggyback” train books. 

All the piggy back books focus on the well documented history lesson and then zero in on one or two well documented roads such as PRR or ATSF in the 60’s leaving off the details about any specific car. Of course after the huge 85’ cars came out in 1959 the amount of data increases exponentially I suspect because that’s when the majority of authors began to take note about these things.

Im still in search of detailed history on the Chicago Great Western, CRIP, and Burlington’s TOFC in the 40’s- 50’s. Not a small paragraph and a picture of an add but serious roster lists and car design specs. This stuff may not be out there. I have only found  photos in Road specific broad topic books such a CGW color guides by Morning Sun. 

(Opening scene: Tom stands in front of hobby shop atop an overturned plastic milk crate, addressing passers-by on the sidewalk.)

I rarely mount a soapbox, but feel a need to give voice to a situation that is particularly peeving to me.  One thing lacking in our scale is well-detailed truck tractors from the era of 1948-1955.  Modern era truck tractors abound, but steam-to-diesel transition era commercial trucks are generally not top quality models.  Windshield shapes and tire sizes badly need to be more realistic.  Separately-applied windshield wipers of proper size and scale appearance are almost never part of O scale trucks.  Add-ons such as mirrors of different types, semaphore turn signals, or fender-mounted aftermarket turn signals were universal in that era, but rarely appear on models, and -- like the windshield wipers -- these should be (but usually are not) scale size details.  If we expect lost wax castings of delicate detail parts on locomotives, should we be satisfied with less on scale trucks?  If realistic-looking brass HO gauge windshield wipers and blades can be produced, then brass truck-size wipers for O gauge can be produced.

Postwar models of commercial trucks lasted in service for 15 to 20 years, and a 1948 Kenworth looks very similar to a 1956 Kenworth.  Other manufacturers who produced similar-appearing trucks for several years running were Peterbilt, Mack, International, Autocar, White Freightliner, White Motors, and GMC.  

Personally, I find the Dehanes trucks, although better than nothing if placed a good distance from the viewer, to be unimpressive.  I think we need to be more demanding.

(Final scene: Tom steps down from soapbox and heads to the cafe for a cup of coffee.)

Tom my friend you are absolutely right! How about a Bullnose Kenworth or something in 1/48.. I LOVE Don Mills models however he's a Mack man.. I have 4 of his tractors now and one of his beautiful hand builds of a Omaha common carrier I'm thrilled but it's a one of kind. Lionel makes some gorgeous trailers but why they used a 1/50 First Gear tooled Ford tractor is no surprise this is big bucks to make tools for models. 

Maybe a plea to these folks like NEO, they did a gorgeous Diamond Rio 1970's model maybe we could see some 50's 60's..?  

We need 1/48 tractors and trailers.. 1/50 is too small and 1/48 is way too big. Tractor trailer trucks are too big to fudge sadly. 

Thanks Tom it is always a pleasure to have your wisdom enter the conversation. 

This is 1/48  and 1953!

NEO 1/43 1970's .. huge in o scale but awesome models 

 

645- 

 

Erik C Lindgren posted:

 

 

Gregg,

Here we go...

What you seek is difficult to do. As we all know it's either 1/50 or 1/43... In most cases it's ok. When it comes to tractor trailers 1/43 is outrageously too big; autos can be fudged a little even though I don't like too. 1/50 is a wee bit small. Unless you set one up next to a locomotive you really don't see it. Truth be known; 1/50 is too small but far better than 1/43.


The following I have researched this is a conclusive list in 1/43-1/48-1/50 of 1940's-1950's era tractor trailers of what you are looking for. Revelll, Lionel, Weaver, and Berkshire Valley all produce trailers in stand alone and as kits.


1/50 Corgi Mack and van sets were made in a variety of liveries.

1/50 Corgi Mack Bullnose and trailer available in a variety of liveries


1/50 First Gear 1955 Ford tractor trailer sets. Lionel later used this tooling in their Piggy Back sets. This is not 1/48.



1/50-1/48 Lionel's Piggyback sets. The Ford tractor was a First Gear die cast 1/50 model as stated above. The trailers are spectacular.


1/48 Revell 1955 Bekins van with Kenworth tractor. A rare collectors item; to date the best stainless steel van ever done in o scales. Mold broke? Was history after 1956 I'm told.

1/48 Revell Mack Mobile Gas Fruehauf tank truck. Still around cheaply as it was remade in the 1990's.

1/48 Revell Honest John Missile carrier. The left over Revell Bekins kit became a flatbed. The fabulous Fruehauf stainless van body is gone.
Some examples of the elusive 1/48 Revell Bekins trailers I have rebuilt and improved and Don Mills Models custom builds.
1/48 Don Mills Models custom built 1952 Mack LT and Fruehauf Stainless 34' van. These are the best 1/48 1950's era tractor trailers I can find. Expensive and beautiful but worth it.
1/48 Don Mills Models 1955 Mack B73. Another fabulous 1950's 1/48 Tractor. Resin and white metal.
1/50 Spec Cast Mack tractor trailer sets. Available in a variety of liveries.
1/50 Speccast trailers are magnificent and HEAVY!
1/50 Matchbox Collectibles "Birth of the Big Rigs" collection. Three of these are out there. I prefer the Peterbilt.
1/50 Matchbox Birth of the Big Rigs Collection Mack
1/50 Matchbox Birth of the Big Rigs Collection Diamond Rio

Great thread packed full of great pictures and information. Thanks to the original poster and all contributes.

Dave Ripp. posted:

Great thread packed full of great pictures and information. Thanks to the original poster and all contributes.

Thank you Dave!

I appreciate it. It’s certainly a resource for us. One of many but I’m learning as I go along. 

Originally posted by Erik C Lindgren:

These models as noted are beautiful. There are 2 distinct trailer prototypes I’ve also bought several of the other
and these reefers. The photo etched grills on the refrigerators are just spectacular,
truly these are the finest post 1957 trailers you can buy. They are right at home on a
finescale brass OMI factory paint model.

With the exception they scale out to 37.5' instead of a full 40'

From L to R: Pecos River Brass 40', K-line 38' and Lionel 37.5'

Well now that train show season is over in a few weeks for the year I will be resuming the TOFC. I’ve got several projects on the burning including a Kenworth Bullnose I’m converting into a dromedary set up. And a finish up of my Pacific Intermountain Express truck. 

Niel Sherff photo 

Ringsby Denver 1950’s 

Erik thanks for posting this again, what great modeling.

Scale City Designs posted:

Erik thanks for posting this again, what great modeling.

I need to reorganize and get things back in order. Reopen this can of worms. 

Erik,

Reopen away, please!  Having also been bitten by the TOFC bug, I've gradually worked my way through all 12+ pages and am amazed at the quality of work displayed and information conveyed.  We've come to expect the very best in work from you, both modeling and photography, but there are some sleeper cells out there worthy of considerable note!  Methinks that, after filling in some of the gaps already mentioned, a reference book could be generated from the material contained herein.

One brief comment regarding NYC Flexi-Van Service:

"1964  ICC clarifies interchange regulations for intermodal service. TOFC service reaches 5x the 1955 levels. 225 carriers participate in interline services. [1, p. 72]. SP develops prototype Piggypacker to overcome problems of "circus-style" TOFC loading/unloading [5]. FEC, NYC, CRI&P join Trailer Train; NYC abandons Flexi-Van container service [7]. TTX begins to use a sans-serif font for its reporting marks [10]."

Having been a student at Boston University, quartered at the "Braves Field" dorm overlooking Beacon Park Yard, I can vouch for the fact that the NYC was still very much in the Flexi-Van business during my 1966-67 occupancy.  It was the view from the 8th floor of the dorm that propelled me down the path to a 40 year career in railroading and lifetime of loving trains.

Erik - You mentioned the lack of information regarding the Chicago Great Western's TOFC program.  Save for mention of the CGW as a "Pioneer" second only the the CNS&M and the year the line signed up to join TTX, the CGW has gotten short shrift, as usual.  This is excusable, I suppose, considering the territory served, number of parallel competing lines, its relatively short lifespan and its early disappearance.  However, innovation was a priority as the line struggled to survive.

As stated many times, throughout, Lionel has done a great job with their PS-4 flat cars, both 40 and 50 foot versions.  Being primarily a fan of '60's and beyond, I'm in the process of pairing a 50' MILW PS-4 to a Lionel 40' MILW trailer and adding the Kadee couplers is the next challenge but well worth it.

Sadly, Lionel's only tribute the CGW's leadership in the field of TOFC has been this unworthy entry:

I bought one on eBay and the trailer will soon be perched on a re-purposed 40' Lionel PS-4 but, being allegedly of "S Gauge" proportions, the trailer will still look odd.  C'mon, Lionel, we know you can do right by the Corn Belt Route!  Heck, this is the outfit that invented the "extended vision caboose":

Hello, Atlas and MTH, are you listening...

Thank you for the valuable information on this Rapid Transit Holmes. And thanks for participating. 

I am working on one of these new Kenworth Bullnose tractors. They are a bit large unfortunately as expected with 1/43. I have not measured it however I’m confident it’s true 1/43. 

The trailer it came with seems a bit small for the tractor maybe it’s 1/48 or ?? -with these models it’s anyone’s guess “fit the box” I am very impressed by the model it’s beautiful and with some work I think I will make a suitable candidate for the highway dromedary truck I’m gearing for. I’m going to keep it away from the dock or foreground as its oversized. 

Im seriously thinking about sending a sample to a friend that 3D scans and produces files for 3D print  perhaps I can get it printed to 1:48. 

Love that video!

I might have asked the question earlier in this thread, but does anyone make good pre-war trailers and prime movers in 1/43? The only thing I've seen for that era are the cheesy piggybank looking ones.

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Beautiful as usual!

Erik, the PRRT&HS is coming out with a two volume series on Trailer Train, from it's inception to the current.  

The release notes indicate a lot of good insider info too. 

Erik,  I dismantled an ERTL trailer, painted it and applied the peel and stick corporate logo.  Lower photo shows where I missed aligning the waves.  Its been at least seven years, no idea who made the decals. Not a step deck furniture van.  I doubt if vans of household goods would be placed on flat cars because of the chance being in a classification yard.   John in Lansing, ILL

p51 posted:

Love that video!

I might have asked the question earlier in this thread, but does anyone make good pre-war trailers and prime movers in 1/43? The only thing I've seen for that era are the cheesy piggybank looking ones.

Berkshire Valley has kits for 32'and 35' trailers with wheels on the bottom of the landing gear.  John in Lansing, ILL

Wow those trailers are fantastic guys

Erik C Lindgren posted:

It was too darn clean. She's only 5-7 years old in my era so it's not a rust bucket but she's been down some dirty wet roads in the Midwest.

This thread is so huge it needs chapters. Lol

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Jeff MacDonald reminded me and I am not sure why I overlooked the Berkshire Valley resin trailer kits. I've built many for clients over the years. Most of them are same prototype as the Lionel trailers however in longer versions. Worth a look

Has anyone ever built the Berkshire Valley B&M kit? Share some pictures ?