DCS Electrical Problem

Bad battery in the DCS locomotive.  If it doesn't have a battery, even a brief power glitch can drop it into conventional mode.

Thanks for your input.  Really appreciate it.  The engine is a little over a year old. I will try recharging it and then run it to see if it continues to cut out. 

Stay clear of using insulated outside rails for signals.  Other IR devices are available today to do what you need done.  Always tie your outside rails together.  MTH supports this practice one hundred percent when using DCS.  I have been involved in some big layouts and this is what to do.  Everyone has a twist on this and refuse to listen to people who have been involved with big layouts.

Marty:

RE: your advice: "Stay clear of using insulated outside rails for signals. "

I always do this and I'm a DCS user.  Am I getting away with it because I use tubular track???

thanks - walt

It's not that it won't work Walt, I think Marty's point is having both rails common will give you better performance in many cases.  Obviously it's possible to run with insulated rails, many people do it.

Walt,

I always do this and I'm a DCS user.  Am I getting away with it because I use tubular track???

Marty and I have discussed this in the past. My layout has been wired the same way as yours for 14 years and DCS signal is always consistent 10 (even when I occasionally break some rules. )

Also, as long as we're on the subject of what to do and what not to do, my layout is all Gargraves track with Ross and Gargraves switches. Although I'm diligent about removing the oily protective coating on Gargraves track's rails, I have never removed the blackening from the center rails. Again, I have experienced absolutely no ill effects to the DCS signal.

Just to go for a "trifecta", I only spot-clean tracks occasionally and only if I suspect a problem that stems from dirt.

Barry and I have conversed about this often.  Like I stated, MTH is for both outside rails tied together.  I have worked on a few more layouts than Barry and practice what I preach. I have worked on layouts by SMARTT,  East Coast Ent  (Rich Roman), and Vernon Peachy.   I have done work and troubleshooting on many layouts in the country.   When a problem exist it can be fixed.  I was fortunate to have DCS on my layout over a year before it was released.  In the early days we did not have a remote.  All we had was a picture of a remote  on a laptop to work with.  If you look at an older OGR, you will see the first article on DCS.  That was me.  

Again, Barry and I are great friends and he writes a great book.  I have them all.  My experience is hands on.   Lots of hands on.  You make the choice of how you want to wire your layout.  On the subject of outside rails, do what you want.  From my experience and full backing from Jason at MTH on this subject I recommend connecting outside rails as MTH does.  

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Barry and I have conversed about this often.  Like I stated, MTH is for both outside rails tied together.  I have worked on a few more layouts than Barry and practice what I preach. I have worked on layouts by SMARTT,  East Coast Ent  (Rich Roman), and Vernon Peachy.   I have done work and troubleshooting on many layouts in the country.   When a problem exist it can be fixed.  I was fortunate to have DCS on my layout over a year before it was released.  In the early days we did not have a remote.  All we had was a picture of a remote  on a laptop to work with.  If you look at an older OGR, you will see the first article on DCS.  That was me.  

Again, Barry and I are great friends and he writes a great book.  I have them all.  My experience is hands on.   Lots of hands on.  You make the choice of how you want to wire your layout.  On the subject of outside rails, do what you want.  From my experience and full backing from Jason at MTH on this subject I recommend connecting outside rails as MTH does.  

What he said.

While I have great respect for Marty's  experience in building layouts and also appreciate MTH's lab-based DCS experiences, my personal experience with my own fair-sized layout is that there would be no additional advantage as regards DCS signal strength were I to use both outside rails for the DCS return signal.

Let me explain...

My layout consistently yields a DCS signal strength of 10 on all of its blocks so there is no measurable benefit that may be obtained by using both outside rails for the DCS signal. By using only one outside rail for DCS, the other outside rail is able to do duty for a variety of signaling and trackside accessories, i.e., block signals, crossing gates, etc.

My layout, while not a monster by any stretch of the imagination, isn't exactly small, either. It consumes a 21' X 13' room plus an adjoining 11' X 2' section in another room. The layout includes the following:

• 3 interconnected levels plus a 4th level for an automated trolly line
• 3 main line loops
• 2 subway loops, one out-and-back and the other terminating in a pair of reversing loops
• A 23-track engine transfer yard, two fair-sized freight yards and a number of additional trains on sidings
• 3 Rev. L TIUs in Super TIU mode, each with a connected WIU and 10 connected AIUs, with 10 TIU channels in use. There are no light bulbs or filters on any of the TIU channels, although every siding has a lighted #260 bumper. Only sidings of engines that are being operated are on at the same time
• Legacy and LCS controls
• More than 100 DCS engines, including 8 or so lashups, all on switched sidings
• An assortment of Legacy and TMCC engines, and 20 or so accessories and operating cars that have been converted to TMCC operation via ERR mini-commanders
• 101 switch tracks
• 49 accessories

It all runs from a DCS Remote or the DCS App. The only things not run through DCS are the toggle switches for track blocks.

This layout was built by me using 16 gauge, stranded wire and the star/home run wiring techniques that I have consistently recommended. It constitutes the laboratory that I regularly use as a test bed for my DCS books.

It operates DCS as well as any layout is able, with original blackening still on the Gragraves track and only one outside rail used for DCS. I also don't spend hardly any time cleaning tracks.  

The above works just fine for me. Your mileage may vary.

A different point of view..... It's the darn engines with traction tires, Diesels  along with2/3 rail steamers have problems picking up the outside rail common around turnouts.  Having both rails tied together helps a lot.

..Does it help the dcs signal? I think so, it's gives the acknowledgement from the engine back to the tiu  another route if needed.

Gregg,

I get all 10's so I can't see how I could get anything better.  

It's the darn engines with traction tires, Diesels  along with2/3 rail steamers have problems picking up the outside rail common around turnouts.  Having both rails tied together helps a lot.

In a few spots on the layout around turnouts I do tie the outside rails together on an as-needed basis, specifically due to the traction tire and 3/2 rail issues.

  I am thrilled things work great on your layout.   I have showed many in the country how to do it different.  I have seen many variations of star wiring and buss wiring.  Each layout is different.  You have not been involved with the layouts I have been.   One thing I learned at an early age is to always go to the guy who has been there and done that.   I am stating anything I tell anyone is not something I read about but something I have been involved with.   I am not here to throw star wiring down.  Bigger layouts can be done different with better success.  Again, everybody can do a layout how they want as they are paying the bill.   Back to outside rails, I have helped many people with that situation.  I find clubs will go old school and wonder why they have an issue.   I have talked to many and for some reason they all know more than I do.  My layout has a 10 on every inch of track and many feet of live catenary.  All layouts I have worked on are the same.   Many clubs do not.  My layout has been featured in OGR two times with the cover and every other club publication.  Everyone has seen my wiring and signal results.  

I talk with and interact with MTH R&D often.   We did this from the early years of DCS.   All the big layout builders connect ground rails.  They want to do the job one time and move on.   Bottom line, people can wire the way they like.  Some folks will listen and others will look down their nose  thinking they are better and smarter that me.  Bottom line, my layout 26X46 runs perfect as does all those I have been involved with.  

Next spring when I get all the bench work up Marty, I'm going to issue an invite to come down and help me wire it.

Ouch.  Enough.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Ouch.  Enough.

You're not going to help me?

The wiring is one of my favorite parts! If I was about 1200 miles or so closer I would certainly offer to help. Not to mention I am sure I would learn a thing or two as well. 

I'm planning on doing a lot of the basic wiring before I put the top on, at least as much as I can.  That will minimize the amount of time crawling under the layout.  I'd much rather stand up when doing wiring.

That is the proper way to do it! I wasn't sure what I was going to do with the track so I did it backwards. I'm sure you will have a much better plan before starting. I got a couple of Harbor Freight mechanic's stools and it really wasn't bad rolling around under there on those. Just have to remember to duck for the cross braces or you will find chunks of hair stuck to them when you go back through. Not to mention it hurts and sometimes leaves a lump! 

It's an adventure.