Erie Lackawanna

NS's Southern Tier Line running from Buffalo to Binghamton, NY is the former Erie mainline.  The line becomes the Canadian Pacific from Binghamton to Scranton, Pa.  While the CP (and NS) utilizes the former PRR from that point south to Northumberland, most of the former Erie / E-L mainline from Scranton to Hoboken, NJ is intact and operates by the Deleware-Lakawana, Metro North, and NJ Transit. 

Also,  the Erie's main from Hornell, NY to Meadville, Pa is still operated by the Western New York and Pennsylvania Railroad and from Meadville to Hubbard, OH is still owned by NS.  I'm not 100% but I do believe the NS's Niles Secondary is the former EL also.

Can't forget the Erie main east of Binghamton through Port Jervis.  Still owned by NS and used by NYS&W.  It has undergone extensive maintenance in the past few years possibly in expectation of traffic shifted from the Lehigh Line as the Crescent Corridor volume increases.  Also picks up CSX diverted traffic if there is a problem on its main east of Syracuse or the River Line.

 

Poppyl

Are any Lehigh Valley mains still in use with heavy traffic?  The line through Tonowanda PA looks like local traffic only.

I believe the NS Lehigh Line runs on the old LV main east of Allentown (east of Phillipsburg, NJ for sure).

 

 

NS also runs a couple of trains daily between Allentown and Buffalo via the R&N between Scranton and Allentown.

 

NS's Ithaca Secondary operates on the former LV main between Sayre and Van Etten and on the old LV passenger main between Van Etten and Ithaca.  I wouldn't consider the traffic on the Secondary to be "heavy" but it generates periodic coal and salt traffic.

 

I also think that some former LV trackage in the Buffalo area is still in use.

 

Poppyl  

One of the photos that formed my early railroad enthusiasm appeared on the front cover of the Locomotive Engineers" Journal in (IIRC) March or August 1954.  My uncle used to give them to me.

 

This cover had a nice shot of a 4-unit Erie FT on a reverse curve in double-track territory at Mill Rift, PA.  I was stricken and became an Erie fan, although it was clear across the country from where I lived. The Journal also published a couple of photos of Erie's handsome steam engines, which furthered my high opinion. I never did get to ride the Erie, but would have probably enjoyed the fast ride across Ohio and the mountain grade railroading over Gulf Summit on the east end.  Alas, the closest I ever came was seeing some Erie Lackawanna equipment at Dearborn Station when traveling on Santa Fe, Grand Trunk Western, or Wabash.

Poppyl, is this the part of the Erie that goes over Gulf Summit?  I wonder, too, whether the block signal system is still intact and whether it is still multiple main track?

Tom,

 

Yes and there are several videos on youtube capturing NYS&W locos working hard to get over the top.

 

Single track with passing sidings and TCS.  As far as I know, the entire Southern Tier is now single track.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Poppyl

Is the Metro North commuter line that that follows the Thruway between exits 15 &16 ( I hope these exit numbers still apply and also passed the Red Apple Rest) through Campbell Hall and into Middletown.....former Erie main line?

 

Peter

Are any Lehigh Valley mains still in use with heavy traffic?  The line through Tonowanda PA looks like local traffic only.

I believe the NS Lehigh Line runs on the old LV main east of Allentown (east of Phillipsburg, NJ for sure).

The ex-LV line  (Lehighline) still runs from Allentown to Oak Island in NJ. It sees very heavy mainline NS traffic. The yard at Allentown is a major classification point between Oak Island and points west for the NS. Recently, we have seen an uptick in NS Heritage transiting the region. For a while, it seemed as if the NS dispatchers were doing everything possible to keep the Heritage units out of Allentown and NJ.

 

Chris

LVHR

Peter:

The line through Campbell Hall, NY is the former Erie Graham freight line.  This would have been their main freight route toward the Midwest.

Curt

Hopefully this link, while not up to the minute, is close enough to answer your inquiry about the LV. There is a fair amount of LV still existant in PA but not much in NY.

 

http://www.frontiernet.net/~sc...LVRR_system_map.html

 

Relative to the EL there is a surprising amount of trackage still in place/use.....some of the secondary trackage not mentioned was the EL line to Syracuse in use by the NYS&W and remanants of the Norththumberland branch as far west as Kingston,PA (althoigh dormant) and as far east as Berwick in use by the North Shore. I believe there is also a portion from the Delaware Water Gap south to the Easton area (?) in use by NS.  

I agree this line is still running and very busy.. The yard is active and fun to visit. But very limited on Heritage sightings.

mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

mike, i think when conrail was formed,there were 6 chicago- east coast routes. el got axed pretty quick. here in ohio a few short lines have a bit of trackage,but thats it .i think the part west of sterling,ohio is now rail to trail.in creston, a gas station/store sits on the old right of way.theres a piece of single track west salem to ashland-mansfield ohio i know of.too bad someone like n.s. didnt get the old e-l.but they had the nickel plate and whatever points east for a route.-jim

 

 

 

 

 

While the entire NS Southern Tier is in use today, it is important to distinguish the western and eastern segments of the Tier.  The eastern Tier currently sees substantially less traffic -- basically a daily NYS&W consist each way and occasional diversions from CSX.  

 

The western Tier sees NS, CP, and CN traffic between Buffalo (Bison) and Binghamton. Binghamton has become a busy transit point with traffic heading up the CP (former D&H) to Mechanicville and on to NE or down the CP (former D&H) to Scranton where some consists head down the R&N to Allentown while others continue on the CP to Sunbury and down the Buffalo line to Harrisburg.  There are also a couple of dailies between Elmira/Gang Mills and Bison yard in Buffalo.

 

Poppyl 

Peter:

 

The line starting from Harriman (exit 16, where I take the train into NYC) thru Suffern (exit 15) is the ex-Erie mainline, continuing into NJ along route 17 (which actually covers most of the Erie mainline from its terminus in Jersey City thru western New York). North of Harriman thru Middletown the original mainline has been abandoned in 1983 by Conrail and has become partially a rail trail, with the freight bypass being used in its place - the mainline ran thru the center of several small towns in between which got annoyed of the traffic.

Was it a logical/wise decision to abandon most of the Erie-Lackawanna mainline Ohio westward?  Or would it be a good option for today's modern rail network?  Was it at a disadvantage to redundant routes that were retained by Conrail?

It had to be a wise decision to get rid of anything early Conrail that wasn't making money. Think about the times and how bad off railroading in the east was by the early and mid-70's. Congress didn't want to keep dumping money into CR forever with the thought that maybe some day somebody will want this or that piece of line.

 

I can't remember where I read this now, but I seem to recall that EL was in he middle of a 10 year upgrade plan for the railroad. Things like rail and ties were being delivered and staged I think in Marion, Ohio. Then came Conrail, and I want to say parts  of EL were upgraded or rebuilt, only to be abandoned and removed two years later.

 

In North west Indiana at least, there's a section of old ROW now named the Erie Lackawanna trail.

 

Sam

When I was with Conrail during the late 70s, my territory included the former Erie/Erie Lackawanna west of Hornell to Salamanca. Almost immediately following the absorption of EL by Conrail, traffic decreased dramatically. What was formerly a very busy railroad hosted just a handful of through trains including IHB-7, MC-97, SM-69, TV-77, NY-72, NY-74 and TV-98. Local traffic was covered by SA-2 out of Salamanca. Even the River Line, which was constructed as a low grade alternative between River Junction on the Buffalo Line and CB Junction in Cuba where it joined the mainline, was abandoned by Conrail in 1977. In Erie and EL days, due to heavy grades, mainline traffic was primarily passenger trains and way freights. The River Line handled the majority of through freights. As noted above, this all changed under Conrail.

 

Bob   

See pages 32 to 43 the March 2005 special issue of TRAINS; page 37 has a good system map. Also see pages 14 through 41 of Issue # 55 (2002) of THE RAILROAD PRESS.        

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So no parts of the Erie west of Buffalo are in use as a main line?  I can see how it would be redundant.

IMO The E-L merger rebranding and repaint is perhaps the coolest of the post merger paint schemes.  The E-L logo was very clever.  

 

So why did many of the Lackawanna lines north out of Scranton not survive as class one quality lines?

Mike;

 

Unless I am mistaken, the former D,L&W main from Scranton/Wilkes Barre to Binghamton is still in use by CP and NS.  The CP line south of Wilkes Barre to Northumberland also runs on an old Lackawanna secondary.

 

A short stretch of the D,L&W main east of Corning is part of NS' Southern Tier.

 

While not a Class 1 main, the B&H (part of the LA&L family) operates on the old D,L&W main between Painted Post and Cohocton, NY.

 

Factors that contributed to the demise of the D,L&W main west of Painted Post included the access to the west out of Hornell that the Erie main provided and the steeper grades on the D,L&W west of Cohocton versus the lesser but somewhat longer Erie route between Hornell and Buffalo.

 

Poppyl