ERR Cruise for Pullmor motors?

WBC, thanks for posting. An interesting piece of Lionel history I'll bet few of us ever knew about.

Pete

And here is Marklin's C-sine AC synchronous motor. This would be known as an inrunner motor in RC lingo. 

And you can read about it here if anyone so chooses:

http://www.euromodeltrains.com...newsletter-vol7.html

So yes, bushless motors are used in model railroading and yes you can count on Marklin to accomplish that which other's cannot. 

You should be one of the few who has converted from old TMCC to ERR.  I suppose most never feel the cost of improved performance worth swapping out electronics.  Adding command to conventional engines is probably the majority of ERR sales.

I'll be interested in your results, as I find early TMCC little improvement over comparable conventional Pulmor equipped engines.  Yes, it's command, but even with momentum and stall properly tuned, the throttle feel is vague...best I can describe TMCC/Pulmor.  Even engines with dual Pulmor's that conventionally compliment each other, stumble under early TMCC.  I have a few examples of the above, and look forward to your experiences with the new AC Commander.

Bruce

No need to wait for me. You should go back and read the thread to see the positive testimony from a number of posters who have installed AC Commander. For example, this from gunrunnerjohn (a fairly reliable source!!):

"The AC Commander did make a huge difference for my dual-motored Phantom upgrade.  When I swapped out the old Lionel TMCC electronics for the AC Commander, the difference was night and day!  It really has good low speed performance that it never had with the 32 step LCRU."

Breeze, GRJ mentions he replaced an earlier LCRU with an AC Commander. I would guess your PWC has a later ACDR. John believes the drive components are the same on both Lionel items and therefore should perform the same. I am not convinced. I too would like to hear back when you do the swap and confirm the AC Commanders out perform both Lionel items.

Pete

Exact same motor drive section.  Same Triacs, MOC and resistors.  G

How many ways can you chop a sine wave regardless of what components you use?

Pete

Like George says, the drive uses the exact same components.  The input to the drive circuitry appears to use exactly the same PWM waveforms for the ACDR as is used for the LCRU.  I confess, I didn't do an actual test with the locomotive I was upgrading with both technologies, because IMO the two would have identical performance. 

I simply get much better low speed performance using the AC Commander than the LCRU, and by extension I'm convinced that with the ACDR and R2LC combo I'd still have the same performance.  I've worked on a number of AC powered steamers with modular electronics, and I've never been impressed by the low speed performance as a rule.

Too bad it never made it into any products.   Have you ever seen this in any Lionel production product?  Has anyone?

Actually, Pete, I didn't say I was going to put an AC Commander in a PWC engine. I said "I have a number of older TMCC Pullmor F-3s and Geeps that I'd be interested in upgrading." In fact, the first engine in line for the upgrade is a MPC Illinois Central F-3 with a swapped chassis - I upgraded it with a chassis from a Milwaukee Road F-3 (with TMCC) that Lionel made about 1998, before the PWC series began.

In any case, folks have stated above that they installed AC Commanders in many engines with great results (Martin and texastrain each said they have installed it in numerous engines, for example), and based on that and what GGG and GRJ are saying, it certainly appears that the AC Commander will markedly improve the performance of TMCC Pullmor engines, regardless of when the engine was built. 

I'm glad to hear the information that GGG and GRJ have provided, in that I have different Pullmor TMCC engines made over a ten year period that I might put an AC Commander in.

Actually not as many as with a FET.  You have to wait for it to turn off at the zero crossing.  Sure they might have programed the R2LC differently, but that is doubtful, since the motor driver sections are IDENTICAL.

But if they did they could have just as easily had different programming in the LCRU 1 or 2 also.   G

Using the same triacs and optocouplers, I'm somewhat at a loss how you could do much of anything different.  As you say, you're really limited as you have to wait for the zero crossing for the triac to turn off, so what's the option, other than to do it the way it's been done since the LCRU?  It seems to me you'd need to have different motor control circuitry to change the behavior.  I've looked at the R2LC/DCDR interface, and it's a very simple PWM signal, hard to believe it's not exactly the same on the LCRU, though I've never actually looked at it.

When Lionel sold off the archives a few years back, I think 8 sample locomotives equipped with the Odyssey motor were sold off. I believe that they were scale mikados and postwar-style F3's.  Examples of these locomotives equipped with the Odyssey motor have shown up on the auction sites before. 

Uhh... Products, as in actual production products?  Obviously, there was a reason that this never made it into production.

Here are a couple of products, enjoy. 

http://www.maerklin.com/en/pro...ls.html?art_nr=37901

http://www.maerklin.com/en/pro...0%2Flocomotives.html

Those are using the Lionel Odyssey motor?  Amazing!  Of course, I think probably not.  Nice attempt at redirection.

Let's cut to the chase.  There is no cruise for Lionel AC motors in production, either now or in the past.  I think we've beat this topic to death, so feel free to have the last word.  I really don't know what point you're actually trying to make, but I'm outta' here.

The intrinsic characteristic differential between the can motor and the universal Pullmore does not allow true CC function.  I believe that a current sensing circuit could be used to adjust motor voltage to the AC motors but they would need to run on DC and as mentioned a 3 pole design doesn't allow smooth low speed operation. I run mainly AC motor engines and maintain the cruise function as they did in the old days, with insulated blocks and rheostat wire wound adjustable resistors. It may be a stone age approach but it works and its 100% reliable. I keep things simple and American!