FM Trainmaster

1) FM produced "Train Master" model locomotives. The term "Trainmaster" is the title of a management position in the operating departments of most railroads.

2) Some railroads specified the short hood end as the "front" (F), while other railroads may have specified the long hood end as the "front" (F). They could, and would operated quite effectively in either configuration.

Any idea how they were run by Virginian?

Depended on railroad preferences.

Virginian, Central of Railroad of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Lackawanna and Reading all had the long hood designated as the "front" and usually ran that way.

The Canadian Pacific also had two units with dual steam generators that required a full width short hood and therefore had to run long hood forward.  The remaining CP TM fleet were also delivered to run long hood forward, but were later reconfigured to run short hood forward.

Rusty

Not in the slightest. You might want to search for photos, or Google Virginian FM Train Master locomotives. I'm pretty sure that the newest MTH re-tooled models have it correct for the Virginian.

Long hood forward.

Rusty

As per the recommendation of Hot Water, I checked out RailPictures,Net and interestingly enough, it goes both ways.  No Virginian pix, but CNJ and Erie Lackawanna ran it cab front from the pictures I saw.

Rusty

Wow! Great job, Rusty Traque!

Those big CNJ monsters were frequently run short hood lead, but the bell was mounted on the long hood.  Last time I was in a 2400 was 1970 at E'port and I'll be dipped if I can remember if it had dual controls or not !    Lackawanna, PRR, and Virginian were at least designated as long hood lead.  The demos and Espee were shorties, along with Wabash.

The CNJ units were indeed equipped with dual controls.

Bob

Majorly too bad the big Illinois Central 75 unit order never panned out, or the PRR fifty unit order, (which could have easily morphed into 75 to 100). The FM internal squabbles, and later Penn Texas buyout, killed the chooch nearly in it's tracks! CNJ TMs were a big favorite, especially "upstairs" on the Penn at Elizabeth...motoring through the big S curve with fifteen heavyweight coaches, and an open rail observation bringing up the markers!  Total class...even if the equipment needed a bath!

I'll have to look up the book title when I get home. I've read that PRR at the time wanted more to buy "rights" to produce their own diesels, and it was alluded to that PRR management went on tours at EMD with cameras and questions, where it seemed they would take (steal?) proven ideas to make its own diesel. I believe this book said FM wanted to sell PRR complete diesels, but PRR only really wanted to buy rights. Again, I'll have to look this up to site it properly.

On the flip side of the IC FM rumor, I've heard that whole big order story is more myth than fact.

Sam

I remember seeing FM artwork for IC Train Masters (along with New Haven.)  I thought it was in Trains Magazine, but I've searched the archive disk to no avail. 

Might have been in Extra 2200 South long ago.

Rusty

The IC order most likely has some basis in fact, altho they were not big FM buyers, so who's to say. It's become part of RR lore, like the impossibly slippery PRR T1. Back at the time, the FM engine costs were well documented, as was the higher price per HP for the FM machine, over that of an EMD. OTOH, FM had the big performance, if you were willing to pay for the trade-off. There can be little question as to who had the better financing.  PRR did investigate the possibility of building their own back in the late '40s, but the finances to put this together wasn't in Penn's rapidly dwindling resources. What they DID apparently want to do was secure the rights to certain engine parts and internals, to go with their purchase of a large quantity of TM's. This made good sense to Altoona, as they had just been burned with both the T1 poppet fiasco with FRS, and then the Baldwin Diesel belly-up mess. I can't imagine the Penn building a complete TM at Altoona in that time frame, but protecting their investment in 50 to 100 locomotives, and big ones at that, would make good economic sense.  The PRR was happy with TM performance, and two of them in MU made an excellent replacement for the horrible Baldwin BH50 Centipedes in east and west slope Allegheny service.   Any way FM wasn't cooperating, and the fifty unit order was split betwixt EMD and Alco for six motor SD9s and 'D12 road switchers.   Gotta admit, an IC TM in orange and white would have been a slick piece of gear !

Ahhhhh...a little peace and quiet over here...well until yunz hear my next proposal !

One thing we sadly lack down here in the lower forty eight, is a real FM Train Master, and that is waaay too bad.  Had an opportunity to save N&W 173...but the old, "it's safe, being so close to home" curse....snuck up and bit us in our collective rear ends.

She was slugged back in '81-'82, and now there's nothing left except CP 8905.   So, what to do?    Let's grab some attitude and procure one of the two remaining slugs, and rebuild her from the ground up as a functional FM Train Master !  This will be tougher than Dale McCormick's PA1 NKP restoration, but not that much tougher. For the hoods, we can copy those on CP 8905, or even TVA 3060.  We'll need a prime mover and all the electricals, but that's not impossible by any means.  Some black and yellow paint, and we're in business!    Challenging? Sure !  Gonna take some five to seven years, maybe a bit more, but when we're done ...look out!   Hey, every couple years or so, we could repaint her into Lackawanna paint, and add Number 2321 to her sides!   Let's add some DL&W ex-MU coaches, and send 'er down the Gladstone Branch !  Huzzah !     Flame suit seriously ON !

But is the OP prime mover still being made?

Isn't this already sorta being done? Theres a group out east, maybe Reading Tech & Historical Society(?) with an ex-NS slug that they planned on unslugging. I dont know if any work ever started on it though.

Hadn't heard about it...and therein lies the BIG problem!  Something like this will certainly require national publicity, and a high level of competent leadership.. as in a plan!  Gonna take vision, clarity, focus, and structure to built it and see it through to completion.  I will start asking questions about this, and pass along anything of value I find.  A fair amount of basic leg work has already been accomplished, both with the Tornado project in England, and their young USA upstart...the PRR T1 Trust.   To generate the required response will mean a call to action.  Getting the "word" out !  Failure to do this severely limits your resources and approaches.  Not long ago, we learned of the tragic fate of Espee 4450...at the hands of people who we thought would save her !   Too bad, a little communication on their part, actually a little more, in this case...could have saved this awesome piece of chooch.  I believe that this FM Train Master thing will eventually grow legs anyway...it's just too obvious a plan, but why wait 'til whenever...when we can get it started now?  One thing you have hugely in your favor is the awareness factor with regards to the TM, and you can largely thank the O gauge hobbyists for that !   Just think..a real functional Black Virginian TM...at least we won't have to put a giant battery in the fuel tank !

I just tried a few google searches, but came up empty. I thought I remembered it being the Reading Technical & Historical Society. Maybe I have the name wrong? I recall thinking about them as the group who restored the big RDG Alco (c-630 maybe?), Gp30, and RS3 to Reading colors when I first read about them have a NS slug and plans to rebuild it. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong group, but I do remember reading that someone somewhere already had the slug and at least some degree of a plan.

Sam

I was an Engineman on the Northeast Corridor, and I know I preferred running E-44's and E-33's short hood forward so I could see the signals quicker though we had cab signals.  I ran for GONERAIL!!!  Ron B.

This doesn't mention any specific plans to rebuild it to an H-24-66, but here's one that's saved and there's a hint of it being rebuilt.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...cture.aspx?id=557498

Lionel's Post War Virginian FM Train Master locomotive, though having an attractive color paint scheme, was a 'Dream/Fantasy!'

As, previously posted, the Black and Yellow, was at the time, the only color paint scheme of the Virginian, unlike Lionel's version: 

http://www.postwarlionel.com/c...in/postwar?ITEM=2322

Ralph

Ah yes, but in 1955, Lionel produced the utterly awesome BLACK Virginian FM with a fairly accurate paint job for the prototype.   Many copies have been made by others since then, including Lionel.  Latest, AFAIK, is the CC 2331 Virginian FM.   MTH has a scale TM, as does Lionel....and K-Line (sort of)  The newly announced Lionel TM in N&W paint would be a VGN. repaint, but it's unclear whether this is a Lionel scale version or a K-Line re-pop.  The dual headlights in the short hood are total FARB, in any event, except for Espee !

Thanks for posting that 9905 shot !   Even if all we got was a dummy unit...a "new" TM would be a real treat.  OTOH, if you're going part way, why not do it right ?

I stand corrected and I agree with you jaygee, in 1955 Lionel did get the colors right and wrong:

http://www.postwarlionel.com/diesel.html

Ralph