Richie C, Thanks for including the link to Marty's post, its another good one I discovered before starting this thread and is similar to one of the others I mentioned called Clairvoyance and Problem Solving.
Johnstrains, thank you for the welcome. I won't disagree with you.
Yeah Steve, I believe Marty's list is akin to the Ten Commandments if you include the last paragraph which is not numbered. Seriously though, I think it's a great guide for anyone contemplating posting something!
As a new forum member myself, I have picked up on many little things that I should do. I have posted once on a wiring problem and I was quickly given a solution that worked. Everybody on this forum is very helpful. Thanks!
Welcome @SteveH
I totally get why you suggested this, but given my experiences here, I don’t think it would help 99% of the time because most folks just don’t bother to read. There is apparently a huge problem with posts going in the wrong forum despite a giant post at the top of the forum in all caps advising people about this. That said there are a lot of big messages and warnings in all caps to dig through.
Personally, I’m all for a newbie posting guide, because written policies are better than unwritten ones. But thats just the engineer in me talking.
@Mannyrock posted:Uh Oh! More rules. And what, there are now "unwritten rules"?
I see "Double Secret Probation" in my future!
(And, I have lost track. Are we at war with Europia or Eurasia today?)
Mannyrock
Neither, it has always been with "Freedonia"!
Welcome aboard. Etiquette? Manners? Courtesy? Well, those go against every principle I stand for, but I'll try to be nice. 
In my not-so-humble opinion, there's no such thing as a dumb question. There's just the dumb mistake you make because you didn't ask a question. Now that I've retired, bought a home and know where I'll have layout space I'm trying to settle in on a design and will be asking more questions myself.
Matt - Always seem to have something positive to bring to the table, thank you.
SteveH, you're over thinking this. Like some previous poster said " don't do or say things you wouldn't in person and in front of a group".
Everything else is pretty easy going. There are no dumb questions and a lot of really smart experienced people on the forum. Just wade on in.
And vertical videos are fine.
.
@aussteve posted:And vertical videos are fine.
NO, NO THEY'RE NOT ! 
Case in point, even when faced with the reality of the situation the "cameraman" still chooses to go vertical recording this scene....
At no point did he become cognizant he was only recording less than half the scene. 
(I actually found this clip looking for one of Fred getting laid out by Bam Bams train!)
Jerry
Well I guess we are in for a new rule here on OGR about taking videos.
@baltimoretrainworks posted:NO, NO THEY'RE NOT !
Not allowing vertical videos is like banning portrait mode in photography. I understand that viewing vertical videos on a horizontal screen is painful, but some social media platforms have made this commonplace and are actually designed around it. Portrait mode is for... well, portraits, and some video content fits the style. Things like testimonials come to mind. It doesn’t make a lot of sense for train videos, but vertical displays are becoming more and more prevalent.
As long as all of the pertinent action is captured, who cares?
Well since we are on the subject, I agree with the "no clairvoyance posts" rag. Put something in the title to help us a little.
As for video, I prefer mine horizontal for trains and looking at on my computer. But I don't get my panties in a wad about it. Things change. There is a lot of vertical video shot with a phone whose final destination for viewing is a phone. I'm not sure people realize that most young people look at video almost exclusively on their phones. So we sound like clueless old farts if we get apoplectic about it. I certainly have taken plenty of vertical video of my granddaughter. People are after all, vertical, and movies used to be almost square. 16:9 doesn't lend itself to the close up . Who knows, maybe one day TVs will all be vertical.
When I was a TV production designer I used a lot of vertical screens for which we had to make vertical content. As soon as plasmas came on the market and we didn't have to use those massive projection TVs, we said "Hey vertical!!' This of course was just background eye candy, but maybe we were ahead of our time.
All that notwithstanding, shoot your trains you post here horizontal.
@Will posted:Who knows, maybe one day TVs will all be vertical.
As a broadcast engineer and designer...oh god no!
When I was a TV production designer I used a lot of vertical screens for which we had to make vertical content. As soon as plasmas came on the market and we didn't have to use those massive projection TVs, we said "Hey vertical!!' This of course was just background eye candy, but maybe we were ahead of our time.
I agree that for background displays with specialty graphics yes there is a place. They do it all the time for WWE because of the ring apron, jumbo tron, and even ring post displays but we should never use it for viewing content.
All that notwithstanding, shoot your trains you post here horizontal.
Another suggestion is if you thing you have something that goes in the 3RS section...you probably don't and will be told so. LOL!
@rplst8 posted:Not allowing vertical videos is like banning portrait mode in photography.
As long as all of the pertinent action is captured, who cares?
No one is suggesting not allowing vertical that but most videographers do consider it sloppy, lazy and annoying. If you're going to do something at least do it so the viewing experience is remotely enjoyable. We're not talking about a once in a lifetime thing like Bigfoot or a UFO or a meteor where you just want to get it on film fast as you can.
Also...
You’re limited in what parts of the scene you can see and in smaller detail, and if someone is shaky with their shot it’s VERY hard to keep them in the frame. That causes people to tune out.
Instead of black bars, they letterbox it on the sides with a blurred color spectrum that matches what’s happening in the video. That causes people to tune out.
Sorry, but that’s effectively the same thing as black bars, only far more annoying. You can always turn yourphone sideways to see a bigger picture with more detail but the annoying blur box on desktop playback is forever.
And then there's nature.....
Jerry
The topic of this post has turned from forum etiquette to how bad verticle videos are
Hi Steve and welcome to our forum. Aside from the TOS, every organization has certain unwritten rules and procedures and the OGR Forum is no different. I can guarantee that if you are here for any length of time you'll know what they are. If you were ever in the military you know what I mean. Anyway glad you're here and look forward to your posts.
@baltimoretrainworks posted:No one is suggesting not allowing vertical that but most videographers do consider it sloppy, lazy and annoying. If you're going to do something at least do it so the viewing experience is remotely enjoyable. We're not talking about a once in a lifetime thing like Bigfoot or a UFO or a meteor where you just want to get it on film fast as you can.
Also...
You’re limited in what parts of the scene you can see and in smaller detail, and if someone is shaky with their shot it’s VERY hard to keep them in the frame. That causes people to tune out.
Instead of black bars, they letterbox it on the sides with a blurred color spectrum that matches what’s happening in the video. That causes people to tune out.
Sorry, but that’s effectively the same thing as black bars, only far more annoying. You can always turn yourphone sideways to see a bigger picture with more detail but the annoying blur box on desktop playback is forever.
And then there's nature.....
Jerry
Jerry, "I Do love a great power-point presentation in the morning" <salute> and I love the landscape videos the best...Lots of Layout to Seeeeeee
Captain Bogart.
Apparently, there ARE unwritten rules.
Break out the rat cages and head straps!
Mannyrock
Having been here since Week #1, I'll post a few things I've learned along the way:
1. Thou Shalt Not "Lash Up".
2. Thou Shalt Not ask: "How can I make black smoke?"
3. Thou Shalt Not hyphenate PRR Steam. It is NOT K-4, L-1, or B-6! (Thanks HW)
4. Thou Shalt Not Try to Set The Record for Most Original Posts in a Day. (Robert Coniglio beat it)
5. Thou Shalt Not Question a TOOG.
6. Thou Shalt Consult the Manual and/or Dealer Before Complaining About a Product Here.
7. Thou Shalt Not Use the Forum to Pick Up Men. (They're either already taken, or have no money left for a date)
8. Thou Shalt Not Promote Carcinogens to Clean Track.
9. Thou Shalt TRY to Spell and Use Punctuation. (Not a rule, but you'll get better results)
10. Thou Shalt Not Post a Picture One Does Not Own. (It used to be a LOT more interesting when we could though...)
Jon
11. Thou Shalt Not Crop Dust at Train Shows.
Jon
@KOOLjock1 posted:Having been here since Week #1, I'll post a few things I've learned along the way:
2. Thou Shalt Not ask: "How can I make black smoke?"
Or discuss using non smoke products or making your own in your basement.
6. Thou Shalt Consult the Manual and/or Dealer Before Complaining About a Product Here.
Probably the one most often broken.
Jon
Good list but there are so many more...
How about...
Thou shalt not revive a seven year old thread only to add nothing new or to provide information that was already posted.
What is up with that, anyway? Happens all the time. 
12. Thou shalt not answer questions directed to another forum member until that member has had an opportunity to answer.
13. Thou shalt not find fault in another member's efforts, since we are all in this for fun and relaxation, and not to see who is the best modeler on the planet.
@West Side Joe posted:12. Thou shalt not answer questions directed to another forum member until that member has had an opportunity to answer.
I'm guilty of violating this quite often, but have never been reprimanded for it. When someone asks a question, they probably expect an answer, but the member "addressed" by the question might not be back on the forum for hours or days. After all, many here are still working, have other pursuits, or may be just too busy personally to be on the forum all the time.
So, if I think I know the answer (or have an opinion), I will provide it. Of course, it always helps to be sure you know what you're talking about (I've screwed up here on occasion) before jumping in.
Chuck
And hopefully, lastly: Please, PLEASE no "Does anyone know?" type questions. Of course SOMEONE "knows", but the real point is, "I would like to know..............."!
How about, Thou shalt use the enter key to create paragraphs in long posts (makes it a whole lot easier to read).
Here's one...
Thou shall be respectful and kind to other forum members when they mistakenly post something in the wrong forum or "violate" these unwritten rules. Rather than talk down to them, suggest the forum that would be more accurate. Suggest respectfully when a post might not have enough information, or "violates" what you might think is a unwritten rule. We all started out somewhere and probably had the same questions we might think is obvious now. Shaming someone because they don't know does nothing for this forum.
The hobby is small enough without having potential, new, and old members alike not being able to enjoy themselves here and find the information and help they're looking for. All this does is drive folks away. Not everyone is internet savvy.
RESPECT. Goes a long way to making this forum great.
@KOOLjock1 posted:Having been here since Week #1, I'll post a few things I've learned along the way:
1. Thou Shalt Not "Lash Up". You can't stop me!!
2. Thou Shalt Not ask: "How can I make black smoke?" Ask away, but don't expect to like the answer
5. Thou Shalt Not Question a TOOG. Seriously I have no idea what that acronym is.
8. Thou Shalt Not Promote Carcinogens to Clean Track. DO Not use simple green to clean fast-track. - the results are horrifying!
Jon
What is a TOOG?
There have been some really good observations and suggestions in this discussion. Thanks to all who've contributed. If I may make another observation.
If you haven't already noticed from some of my other posts, I have a pretty dry sense of humor. With people who know me well, I often use sarcasm. But with people who don't know me well, I've found that using sarcasm often results in being taken literally at first, especially in written form when the recipient can't see my facial expression.
I've found that when writing to people who don't know me well, to avoid misunderstandings, it's better to either avoid sarcasm or make it really clear that I'm trying to be humorous. 
@jhz563 posted:What is a TOOG?
If my recollection is correct it stands for "The Other O Gauge" and is an outdated reference to fans of MTH. I maybe wrong though.
Too funny KoolJock. Love the Coniglio reference (and quite accurate as well!). However, you left out a few:
@MartyE posted:If my recollection is correct it stands for "The Other O Gauge" and is an outdated reference to fans of MTH. I maybe wrong though.
That sounds good. I have been on the forum a while now, and TOOG was before my time here. I always thought it was one of these two:
1) An old timer from the AOL days who showed resistance to new ideas, argued a lot, and did a lot of name calling. This matches Jon's "Thou Shalt Not Question a TOOG."
or
2) The opposite, the new guys with a broader view of the O world and tried to make the forum less divisive. This better matches "The Other O Gauge".
Whatever it meant, it is no longer applicable here. Members of this forum do a great job in keeping thing civil and helping each other, even when they disagree. The moderators also do a great job when someone temporarily forgets themself and shows a little too much emotion.
MartyE - Your 'respectful' comment reinforces what my mother used to say "If you don't have anything nice to say about something or someone, don't say anything."
"Don't go berserk or nuclear over minor criticisms. We are only talking about Toys here!"
I think the lack of respect is a problem on all social media platforms. People can and do say a multitude of things to me online they would never say to my face.
@MichRR714 posted:I think the lack of respect is a problem on all social media platforms. People can and do say a multitude of things to me online they would never say to to my face.
True but I like to think we know better. Steve's observation on sarcasm is spot on as well.
The other thing it potentially affects is newbies or even those who just found us to shy away and not come back if they see we can't be respectful.
SteveH,
I agree with your concept and even have an idea how to implement it. I signed up so long ago that I don't honestly remember the process, but I think you had to provide an e-mail address even if you chose to keep it private. If so, why can't a "Suggestions to Make Your Experience Better" file and a "Terms of Service" file be e-mailed to the new member when sign-up is complete. That serves the double duty of verifying the e-mail address and putting some useful info directly into the new member's hands.
Of course, we will never be able to "force" them to read any of it, but then nobody can argue that they didn't know something-or-other. And, if or when there is a change in either document, all members should receive files with the revisions via e-mail.
By the way, only one suggestion should involve anything unrelated specifically to trains, something like "Be civil, stay on topic, and try not to repeat what you say over and over again." (Feel free to add any other non-train related ideas you might have. Train related suggestions might be:
1. If you're talking about a trackplan, include a picture or drawing of your concept(s), include the overall room dimensions, identify objects in the area that might interfere, and identify the type of track and/or switches you plan to use.
2. If you're talking about command control. identify the system(s) involved, the hardware you plan to use, and the version of software employed as well as what products (engines, sound cars, switches, accessories, etc.) will be used with it.
3. If talking about layout wiring, include a picture or drawing of your layout with some ideas of how you would like the layout to operate.
This list is not all-inclusive, by any means, and probably doesn't mention all the ideas listed earlier in this thread. I'm just trying to suggest that your idea is not impractical and should be easily doable by the forum operator once we agree on what should go into the introductory e-mail as an attachment. Ultimate decision, though, is up to the forum moderators.
Chuck
@jhz563 posted:@KOOLjock1 posted:Having been here since Week #1, I'll post a few things I've learned along the way:
1. Thou Shalt Not "Lash Up". You can't stop me!!
Yeah, why not?
@MichRR714 posted:People can and do say a multitude of things to me online they would never say to to my face.
Generally, you are correct with this comment, but I've seen a lot of poor social skills at train shows and have heard people say things to people to their face you'd think they'd only type online. I've not generally seen this nearly so much in any other community.
I think this speaks to an appreciable percentage in the hobby that tend to be quite "Sheldon Cooper*"-ish and probably operate somewhere in the Autism spectrum. You only have to go to a big train show to see it in action.
Not going into specifics, I encountered someone who had seen one my magazine articles and actually came looking for me at a large train show (Mike, it's the one I ran into you at), telling me all the errors I'd made on my layout and how generally he would have done a "far better job" than I had. The 'corrections' he had for me were all quite incorrect (for example, he said the ET&WNC never had tank cars, and that the line had 'lots' of former D&RGW locos and rolling stock, most of which never got re-lettered) and then he launched into how I should just scrap the layout "for the sake of the hobby." His arrogance was only matched by his comical level of ignorance of the subject and his lack of social skills.
In short, the things people think someone would only post online. But he was saying it to me face (and well into my personal space, as I keep backing up and he'd match the move each time).
I just looked at him with the same look NCOs would give me when I was saying something stupid as an Army 2nd LT. I then asked that he not stand so close and made it really clear that the only thing preventing me from offering to meet him out back to give him an attitude adjustment he'd remember in his old age was his clear lack of faculties. I then walked away, leaving him to ponder what I'd just said.
* "The Big Bang Theory" show writers clearly weren't big fans of train people and the ravaged us generally for the run of the show, never missing the chance to make train/model train fans appears nuts, lacking in any social skills or pathetic overall. "Pathetic" and "Sad" were words actually used to describe us on a few episodes I remember, one I saw last night on syndication. I'm still a fan of the show regardless. Sadly, their depictions of train folk 100% meet those like them I've met over the years.
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