Gargraves switches and Weaver freight cars

With the power off LOL slowly run the offending cars thru the switch.

What's hitting that middle rail? It has to be something to do with the trucks Coupler maybe?

Also are your switches flat? Did you check them with a straight edge ? to make sure both long ways and cross ways.

Look at the cars where are the burn marks? On the coupler button? if so you might not be able to do much .You may just have to put some electrical tape on the button.
Hope this helped.

David

Before we might offer a solution, can you slowly roll a car, with the track power ON, over the switch? Then observe, closely, exactly what wheel (or truck component) is touching the center rail, by looking for the spark?

Is it a frame part, or a coupler handle? Are two wheels bridging a running rail with a middle rail segment?

quote:

Originally posted by Arthur P. Bloom:
Before we might offer a solution, can you slowly roll a car, with the track power ON, over the switch? Then observe, closely, exactly what wheel (or truck component) is touching the center rail, by looking for the spark?

Is it a frame part, or a coupler handle? Are two wheels bridging a running rail with a middle rail segment?

Yea do it with the power on.Wear your safety glasses so when it sparks it doesn't get in your eyes hope you don't blow anything valuable up in the process.

If you can't easily see were it's making contact use a voltmeter set to ohms attach the leads to the track and listen for the tone as you run the car slowly thru the switch.
Sometimes I wonder why I bother

David

There is another possiblility. Depending on the age of the car, the wheel set(s) may not be gauged properly. Weaver went through a spell a while back where the wheels were set too close together on the axle. If the cars you have are shrink wrapped to a card board insert, I would definitely check out this possibility. Carefully measure the back to back distance of the wheels and compare to a set that does not spark. You can get correctly gauged replacement wheel sets from Weaver. If the cars you have came in a 2 piece plastic clamshell insert, then this is NOT likely to be the problem.

As an interim stop-gap measure, I added a piece of electrical tape to the side of the center rail where the sparking was occurring. That cured the problem until I could get new wheel sets for my rolling stock.

Chris
LVHR

quote:

Yea do it with the power on.Wear your safety glasses so when it sparks it doesn't get in your eyes hope you don't blow anything valuable up in the process.

If you can't easily see were it's making contact use a voltmeter set to ohms attach the leads to the track and listen for the tone as you run the car slowly thru the switch.

Good advice. Probably if the track voltage were to be set a minimum, the sparks will not travel further than a quarter inch or so. I suggested using track power to test so that the switch will be energized exactly as when in service. We don't know if there is a cross within the switch that only occurs when track power is applied. At least he's not planning to put a dead short across a 10-amp, 18-volt supply.

quote:

Sometimes I wonder why I bother

I feel your pain. I am the one who always advises the use of volt-ohmmeters, but my advice seems to fall on deaf ears in a lot of cases.

quote:

Originally posted by lehighline:
There is another possiblility. Depending on the age of the car, the wheel set(s) may not be gauged properly. Weaver went through a spell a while back where the wheels were set too close together on the axle. If the cars you have are shrink wrapped to a card board insert, I would definitely check out this possibility. Carefully measure the back to back distance of the wheels and compare to a set that does not spark. You can get correctly gauged replacement wheel sets from Weaver. If the cars you have came in a 2 piece plastic clamshell insert, then this is NOT likely to be the problem.

As an interim stop-gap measure, I added a piece of electrical tape to the side of the center rail where the sparking was occurring. That cured the problem until I could get new wheel sets for my rolling stock.

Chris


Chris

I never thought of that. Do you know if Weaver will make good on the defective wheel sets? Is it possible to re-gauge the wheels?
LVHR

To summarize:
Two things to check with Weaver cars. First, if the truck is the diecast variety, definitely make sure the uncoupling "thumbtack" isn't riding low enough to short on the center rail somewhere on the switch. Even on the plastic trucks, it's less likely, but sometimes the thumbtack can bridge a gap and cause a short.

Second, look for pitting on the back of the flange on one or more of the wheel sets. That is a sure sign that you have one of those defective wheelsets, mentioned above. It's a combination of an overly thick flange plus a gauge problem that allows it to short on the switch. Weaver is great at customer service - just give them a call.

*******

David and Arthur, We bother because we want to help folks out on this forum. Sometimes it means repeating advice and having advice ignored on many an occasion. Over the course of several months you will find the same things coming up time and again.

But, remember there are lots of folks joining the forum and reading these posts for the first time who really appreciate learning new things. Also, there are lots of people reading our responses who never post themselves, but appreciate our efforts.

Maybe it's my being conditioned by 30+ years in education, but I don't mind repeating myself if I think it may be of value to a fellow forumite.

Jim

Jim,
Your advice is '"right on the money". I, too, have noticed sparks from older Weaver cars rolling through Ross switches.

Now I know what to look for. Thanks to all for the info.

Mr. Policastro,

I use the salutation out of respect for you and your work on the forums as well as to take you back to your teaching days.

I agree with your thoughts as to why you bother. Myself being a new registered member had lurked around here for several years trying to absorb information until the time came that I could begin building my own layout. That time is now and I didn't want to be asking questions years before I was going to build. Before I post a question, I try to search the forums for my answer. Perhaps the new forum setup will be a little more "search" friendly. It seems that some members who "know" a great deal about certain things get annoyed when people ask questions about subjects in their area of knowledge. Things that are obvious to some are not apparent to others. I have realized that there is every caliber of train person on these forums. I think that often goes over looked. We are all here for the same reason - TRAINS and our love for them in so many ways and degrees.

Anyway, thanks to all those who are patient and offer assistance even if they are for repeat issues. The amount of information on these forums is amazing!

Matt

Thank you, Matt. I really appreciate the kind words.

It's good to hear that you are in a position to start layout building. The beginning of a new layout has to be one of the most exciting and fun times in the hobby.

If any questions or problems come up, just let us know - we'll be here!

Jim

Bill/Matt:
Another point to consider is that Weaver plastic trucks have a wheel set with slightly larger flanges as Jim mentioned, that are notoriously pressed-on to the point that they are slightly under-gauge. They still work on the track, but switches/crosses/etc. tend not to work well. We have used a small battery terminal puller to reset the wheels a bit farther apart on the axle to eliminate some of the derailing and in your case shorting. A lot of these plastic trucks have been upgraded to the Weaver Die-cast trucks, which seem to operate more reliabily.

Jim: I only had 6 years as a teacher many years ago, but it's in the blood and never goes away. I have learned a lot from those who put in much more time than I.

Matt: Best wishes and welcome to the forum
Mike

As Mike CT stated above, the wheel sets in the Weaver plastic trucks are thicker then the wheel sets in the diecast trucks. Take a pair if digital calapers and measure the wheels in the plastic trucks, that's why they short going thru older Gargraves and/or Curtis switches.

Be sure and check if there is excessive side-to-side play in the axles of the offending truck. Play will allow a wheel to wander over and make contact, particulary if it is bumping up on the plastic side rail as it goes through the switch.

On the switch itself, you can smooth the transition onto the plastic side rail with some filing on the edge. Gently using a wood block and mallet you can bend the edge of the throat plate to create more space between it and the side rail.

Poppyl