Gear tooth popped off on new MTH locomotive.

Found another piece too, not sure where that came from on the model.

I guess MTH doesn't repair directly anymore.

How To Obtain Warranty Service

Items qualifying for warranty service should be returned to the M.T.H. Authorized Retailer where purchased.

If the retailer has trained service techs, they can offer to repair the locomotive (M.T.H. will supply warranty parts as needed free of charge. If parts are not available a refund will be given to the dealer).

M.T.H. will no longer provide repair service on any products at its corporate headquarters.

If an item is defective and cannot be repaired, it needs to be returned to the original purchasing M.T.H. Authorized Retailer and the end-user can obtain a refund from the retailer. The original purchasing retailer will then return the item to M.T.H. for credit.

Customers may want to request that their items are tested by the retailer prior to taking the item home. All items are tested by M.T.H. Electric Trains prior to shipment from our production facilities.

Contact MTH Parts & Sales directly and ask if you can get the truck or part.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Contact MTH Parts & Sales directly and ask if you can get the truck or part.

Thanks, I contacted Nicolas Smith Trains and MTH, both were very helpful. MTH said they could possibly send me replacement parts, however, I don't have soldering gun to do the work. I'm going to send it back to NST for repair. Out of the 3 MTH diesel locomotives, 2 have bad gears. The first, with a total lock-up on one truck and piece of missing gear and the second, on one truck, one wheel set is completely locked, so the locomotive does burn-outs when it tries to move. The 3rd one so far, makes a weird tick tick tick sound in reverse at any speed, slow tick to fast tick depending on the locomotive speed, hoping it goes away or that will need to be repaired as well, ugh....

The long piece looks like an add-on detail part, or some kind of trim.  I haven't seen recent MTH production.  Are they doing separate brake shoes on their diesels now?

It would be unusual for gears to spontaneously fail (although with reports of declining quality I guess anything is possible.)  Could the trim have broken off, and then jammed in the gear, causing it to fail?  NOT implying in any way that it was your fault.

The good news is that the truck blocks for MTH diesels used to be pretty interchangeable, so I don't think you'll have to worry about parts not being available.  I suppose you would have to remove and re-solder the wire going to the roller pickup, but all things considered, not a difficult repair.  Hope your loco is back on the rails again soon!

Actually, the roller pickups should have a screw and a wire with a ring terminal, no soldering required.

My thoughts exactly John......I've never had to solder any wires to MTH pick-up rollers, or any wires to boards etc. inside MTH loco's.

Peter......Buco Australia 

@Gigabyte posted:

Thanks, I contacted Nicolas Smith Trains and MTH, both were very helpful. MTH said they could possibly send me replacement parts, however, I don't have soldering gun to do the work. I'm going to send it back to NST for repair. Out of the 3 MTH diesel locomotives, 2 have bad gears. The first, with a total lock-up on one truck and piece of missing gear and the second, on one truck, one wheel set is completely locked, so the locomotive does burn-outs when it tries to move. The 3rd one so far, makes a weird tick tick tick sound in reverse at any speed, slow tick to fast tick depending on the locomotive speed, hoping it goes away or that will need to be repaired as well, ugh....

I had the same tick tick noise on my Long Island GP38.  Drove me crazy..Tehnician couldn't figure it out either..did some deep research on line..The issue was a simple few drops of oil in the rollers. Give it a try.

Sunrise

@Gigabyte posted:

The 3rd one so far, makes a weird tick tick tick sound in reverse at any speed, slow tick to fast tick depending on the locomotive speed, hoping it goes away or that will need to be repaired as well, ugh....

Oil the outsides of the pickup rollers.  I know that ticking sound all too well.

If you bought that loco for 20% off from Nick Smith's holiday sale, you got a great deal. I had my eyes on that H10-44 since the sale started. I was ready to pull the trigger a few times but just didnt. I already have one and was going to double head 2 h10-44;s. I knew if I stalled around long enough someone else would buy it. Having issues with this new loco would have dissapointed me. Hope you get your issues resolved. Is Nick Smith paying for shipping bact to the store?

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all of your help and insights. I will reply more tomorrow to your individual questions, but in sum, I oiled the gears and pickups with Labelle 107 like I normally do and it stays ticking. I noticed thick yellow grease under one truck, but I doubt that's the issue (near the pivot point over the gears) One thing I noticed is that one pickup roller has a lot of slack, meaning it can move left to right much more than the other side and other the other two mth locomotives. I've attached a photo and a video. It ticks more on a straight away than a curve.

@Ted S posted:

The long piece looks like an add-on detail part, or some kind of trim.  I haven't seen recent MTH production.  Are they doing separate brake shoes on their diesels now?

It would be unusual for gears to spontaneously fail (although with reports of declining quality I guess anything is possible.)  Could the trim have broken off, and then jammed in the gear, causing it to fail?  NOT implying in any way that it was your fault.

The good news is that the truck blocks for MTH diesels used to be pretty interchangeable, so I don't think you'll have to worry about parts not being available.  I suppose you would have to remove and re-solder the wire going to the roller pickup, but all things considered, not a difficult repair.  Hope your loco is back on the rails again soon!

Thanks so much for your reply, really appreciate it. I thought that too, it fell off and got stuck, but I see no place at all where it would be mounted. The only thing I see loose, but firmly attached to the other side is a yellow handrail.

https://www.mthtrains.com/30-21010-1

I thought the same thing too when I saw it, maybe it fell off and got picked up into the gear, but in my mind, I'm trying to figure out how that happened, let a lone where it came from. I looked over this photo and can't see at all where that would come from and that was the only locomotive I ran on the new track aside from the NASA RTR I got recently and expanded it with the figure 8. I vacuumed the track, no kids. I have no idea where it came from and/or if that even caused it, I'd have to assume it came from it, but don't know where, I don't see where it would attach to.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, the roller pickups should have a screw and a wire with a ring terminal, no soldering required.

THANK YOU! OMG, if it's that's simple, I'll work with MTH, it'll save us all grief, money and time. That would be awesome. The person I spoke with wasn't a tech, but said it may required soldering, but if not, if just a screw/ring terminal, viola, she's backup and running in no time!

@Buco posted:

My thoughts exactly John......I've never had to solder any wires to MTH pick-up rollers, or any wires to boards etc. inside MTH loco's.

Peter......Buco Australia

Thanks as well! I'll contact NST and ask them to contact their tech and verify, if so, I'll contact MTH for both locomotives (one with the broken gear and the other with the jamming/locked wheel set that does unintentional burn outs!) This would be great for me to do, since I'll learn too a bit of repair work.

@Sunrise Special posted:

I had the same tick tick noise on my Long Island GP38.  Drove me crazy..Tehnician couldn't figure it out either..did some deep research on line..The issue was a simple few drops of oil in the rollers. Give it a try.

Sunrise

Thanks, did it twice, no luck. It does look like the roller has a lot of play from side to side compared to others, maybe that's it? It wouldn't be motor/flywheel hitting like a wire? Assuming, only one motor works at a time, e.g. one for forward, one for reverse? I do hear it though both ways, but much more in reverse.

@drelo posted:

Oil the outsides of the pickup rollers.  I know that ticking sound all too well.

Thanks! That's the first thing I do, including the bottom of the spring mechanism on the pcikups. No luck

@jini5 posted:

If you bought that loco for 20% off from Nick Smith's holiday sale, you got a great deal. I had my eyes on that H10-44 since the sale started. I was ready to pull the trigger a few times but just didnt. I already have one and was going to double head 2 h10-44;s. I knew if I stalled around long enough someone else would buy it. Having issues with this new loco would have dissapointed me. Hope you get your issues resolved. Is Nick Smith paying for shipping bact to the store?

EXACTLY which is why I was SO HAPPY...GREAT Trains at a VERY Great price for 20% off! And then this...

They asked me to pay. I'm going to hold off driving there (I'm in Staten Island - 2 hour drive one way, around 105 miles) or mailing it back until I confirm with NST / their tech if no solder is needed, then I'm good to go with MTH replacing the parts and paying for shipping back to them if they want the old trucks.

If the trucks are that easy, woohoo! I'll be very happy! Then on to solving the ticks...

@Gigabyte yes it could be a flywheel hitting a wire or the tach sensor, etc.  Perhaps try running it with the shell off, see what you can see and whether the sound goes away.  If a flywheel IS rubbing a wire, eventually it will short, potentially leading to expensive repairs.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, the roller pickups should have a screw and a wire with a ring terminal, no soldering required.

oh wait, I think you're referring to the pickup rollers specifically, not the entire truck assembly...I assume replacing that requires desoldering/soldering? This is for the broken gear and the other with the locked wheelset, If I get full truck replacements, then I guess it would require a desolder for the existing connection and solder for the new connection?

If that's the case, can anyone recommend a cheap solder gun for something like this / proper solder wire for it?

@Ted S posted:

@Gigabyte yes it could be a flywheel hitting a wire or the tach sensor, etc.  Perhaps try running it with the shell off, see what you can see and whether the sound goes away.  If a flywheel IS rubbing a wire, eventually it will short, potentially leading to expensive repairs.

Thanks! I'm going to try that tomorrow.

@Ted S posted:

@Gigabyte yes it could be a flywheel hitting a wire or the tach sensor, etc.  Perhaps try running it with the shell off, see what you can see and whether the sound goes away.  If a flywheel IS rubbing a wire, eventually it will short, potentially leading to expensive repairs.

By any chance, do you know if I would just remove the screws from the bottom and it should come off, and/or are their clips involved too, where I would need to squeeze the shell too? Thanks!

I found this one on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09TXP1KDV   -- I'll practice on a very old pc motherboard.

Not sure based on anyone's experience with a soldering gun, is it better to use flux and a wick to desolder or the vacuum pump?

Swapping the trucks shouldn't require any soldering. The motor wires are aren't involved, only the pickup roller wire, which as gunrunnerjohn described above is only attached with a screw through a ring terminal.

The motor/s are mounted to an adapter plate with two screws, and that plate in turn receives a screw passing up through the bottom of the truck block, sandwiching the sheet-metal chassis in the process. Detaching the truck once the body shell is off and pickup rollers are disconnected only involves removing that bottom screw to the motor adapter plate and wiggling the truck free from the motor's worm gear. Be sure to lube the internal gears in the new truck block before mating to the motor -- you'll know by now how much work it is to access them down the line.

Definitely check for a motor wire rubbing against the flywheel while you have the shell off. I had that happen to a Weaver SD40 many years ago. It would short out entering curves in one direction, and completely mystified me till I took the shell off and found a motor wire that had been in intermittent contact with the flywheel long enough to wear through its insulation.

Oh, by the way, both motors drive the locomotive in both directions.

---PCJ

@Gigabyte posted:

THANK YOU! OMG, if it's that's simple, I'll work with MTH, it'll save us all grief, money and time. That would be awesome. The person I spoke with wasn't a tech, but said it may required soldering, but if not, if just a screw/ring terminal, viola, she's backup and running in no time!

You actually got to "SPEAK" withsomeone at MTH? WOW, How did you manage to do that?

Did you check the chronometer and odometer readings of this loco when you first applied power to it. Are you sure it was new and not a return? Not singleing out any particular dealer but I have experienced "returned" locomotives from various dealers. Returns go back into stock and get sold to someone else. Who knows what you are getting nowadays. That is the first thing I do every time even before oiling is to check those readings.

@RailRide posted:

Swapping the trucks shouldn't require any soldering. The motor wires are aren't involved, only the pickup roller wire, which as gunrunnerjohn described above is only attached with a screw through a ring terminal.

The motor/s are mounted to an adapter plate with two screws, and that plate in turn receives a screw passing up through the bottom of the truck block, sandwiching the sheet-metal chassis in the process. Detaching the truck once the body shell is off and pickup rollers are disconnected only involves removing that bottom screw to the motor adapter plate and wiggling the truck free from the motor's worm gear. Be sure to lube the internal gears in the new truck block before mating to the motor -- you'll know by now how much work it is to access them down the line.

Definitely check for a motor wire rubbing against the flywheel while you have the shell off. I had that happen to a Weaver SD40 many years ago. It would short out entering curves in one direction, and completely mystified me till I took the shell off and found a motor wire that had been in intermittent contact with the flywheel long enough to wear through its insulation.

Oh, by the way, both motors drive the locomotive in both directions.

---PCJ

Thank you very much for your detailed reply.

"Swapping the trucks shouldn't require any soldering. The motor wires are aren't involved, only the pickup roller wire, which as gunrunnerjohn described above is only attached with a screw through a ring terminal."

--> That's GREAT to hear, thanks for confirming that!

"The motor/s are mounted to an adapter plate with two screws, and that plate in turn receives a screw passing up through the bottom of the truck block, sandwiching the sheet-metal chassis in the process. Detaching the truck once the body shell is off and pickup rollers are disconnected only involves removing that bottom screw to the motor adapter plate and wiggling the truck free from the motor's worm gear. Be sure to lube the internal gears in the new truck block before mating to the motor -- you'll know by now how much work it is to access them down the line."

--> Thanks so much for those details! I ordered this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CLC1D97L/   -- would the Labelle Grease with PTFE be ok for the internal gears? In not, any recommendations?

"Definitely check for a motor wire rubbing against the flywheel while you have the shell off. I had that happen to a Weaver SD40 many years ago. It would short out entering curves in one direction, and completely mystified me till I took the shell off and found a motor wire that had been in intermittent contact with the flywheel long enough to wear through its insulation."

--> Thanks, I'm trying to remove the bottom screws, but none of my Phillips work nicely and the manually doesn't mention a size -- I assume it's Phillips based on manual, not JIS? (hard to tell by the screw itself,) by any chance, do you know what number to use, plus what do you use around the side truck area, everything I have is so close to the truck that it will scratch it. maybe I should blue tape the truck to the driver doesn't scratch it? The screws sort feel like they are torqued in, very tight, just want the right size as I feel like I will strip them easily with the amount of torque needed to get them out initially (Please see photo of what I mean. The other screws in better location, but still hard to hold everything in place with one hand and unscrew with the other.)

"Oh, by the way, both motors drive the locomotive in both directions."

--> Thanks! Scoured the internet for that point and couldn't find it.

@jini5 posted:

You actually got to "SPEAK" withsomeone at MTH? WOW, How did you manage to do that?

It took a few calls spaced throughout the day, but I was able to, but for MTH Parts, there's no direct number, just a submission form. The person who answered was very helpful and I appreciate that.

@jini5 posted:

Did you check the chronometer and odometer readings of this loco when you first applied power to it. Are you sure it was new and not a return? Not singleing out any particular dealer but I have experienced "returned" locomotives from various dealers. Returns go back into stock and get sold to someone else. Who knows what you are getting nowadays. That is the first thing I do every time even before oiling is to check those readings.

I can't I'm using the DCS Remote Commander I got in 2016, it doesn't offer that functionality. Everything looks good and as expected, I didn't see any wear or oil on the gears.

Blue tape worked! Just a few more to go...

I did find a purple wire was caught between the frame and shell, but regardless, running it with shell off, nothing is obvious the tick tick continues...

They are made in Asia, use JIS screwdrivers, philip screwdrivers can strip out the heads!

@Darrell posted:

They are made in Asia, use JIS screwdrivers, philip screwdrivers can strip out the heads!

Thanks, I found the closing matching head with a shank that was thin enough. I applied pressure directly up while pushing down on the frame and gently applied torque until I could feel it give way initially, thereafter, it was easy, no stripping and the screw paint still intact.

Maybe it's the motor? -- is there a drive mechanism inside the truck [not the external gears I can see,] and if so, could that be it?

It's hard to isolate the sound to a specific spot. Unfortunately, I got a new Bradford White water heater and power vent vibrates so badly -- the old one was perfect, this is a nightmare, it goes throughout the whole house due to the pvc pipe exhaust vibrating the floor joist and have to wait until that stops,  which is hard today, because everyone in the household is using hot water today, tons of laundry.

Glad to see that you're making progress.

Yes, there is a worm (looks a bit like a screw) on the bottom of the motor shaft, which engages a worm wheel inside the truck block.  If there's a "burr" on the worm, or if the worm wheel is split on its axle, that could make a "tick tick"-type sound.  If you remove each motor from its truck block you can inspect these and make sure they are greased.  If you don't find anything then perhaps this isn't a serious problem, just a noise.

When reinstalling the motors, turn the flywheel as you're installing it to make sure the mesh is correct, before re-tightening the bottom screw.

@Gigabyte posted:

Not sure based on anyone's experience with a soldering gun, is it better to use flux and a wick to desolder or the vacuum pump?

On a PC board the solder sucker is better. You don't have to heat the connection as long as you would with the solder wick which will minimize the possibility of damage to the board. For wires and terminals I just heat them up and pull them apart.

A soldering iron is much better than using a soldering gun for wiring and PC board work. The iron is smaller, easier to control, usually has a finer tip, is hot when you need it and operates at a lower temperature. In tight places you'll find the iron to be the better option.

@Ted S posted:

Glad to see that you're making progress.

Yes, there is a worm (looks a bit like a screw) on the bottom of the motor shaft, which engages a worm wheel inside the truck block.  If there's a "burr" on the worm, or if the worm wheel is split on its axle, that could make a "tick tick"-type sound.  If you remove each motor from its truck block you can inspect these and make sure they are greased.  If you don't find anything then perhaps this isn't a serious problem, just a noise.

When reinstalling the motors, turn the flywheel as you're installing it to make sure the mesh is correct, before re-tightening the bottom screw.

Thanks Ted! I opened it up (this video was helpful too, too bad there's only 3 videos in the series, would've be great if they did older/newer too):

https://youtu.be/ADs25sq51U4?feature=shared&t=185

and this video, almost similar, but much older model: https://youtu.be/4g2kNn2Uprg?feature=shared&t=318

They are loaded with grease, and I see how it's wired too, only screws and clips which is awesome for quicker serviceability and front piece that needs to be unscrewed and carried over to a new truck.

Do you recommend any particular grease brand, as I need to clean it off to examine it. I might put one of the two new trucks coming in first here and see if it goes away. If that's the case, I just need one more new truck, for a total of 3 new trucks.

@Mike D posted:

On a PC board the solder sucker is better. You don't have to heat the connection as long as you would with the solder wick which will minimize the possibility of damage to the board. For wires and terminals I just heat them up and pull them apart.

A soldering iron is much better than using a soldering gun for wiring and PC board work. The iron is smaller, easier to control, usually has a finer tip, is hot when you need it and operates at a lower temperature. In tight places you'll find the iron to be the better option.

Thanks Mike, sorry, I'm really referring to a soldering iron, not a gun, and it would've been to desolder/solder connections on the locomotive, but luckily, for the truck replacements, I don't need to, but for the motor, I'd need to, esp. if it's the motor itself or the worm screw. The don't leave much slack for the motor wire connections.

@Gigabyte posted:

Do you recommend any particular grease brand, as I need to clean it off to examine it. I might put one of the two new trucks coming in first here and see if it goes away. If that's the case, I just need one more new truck, for a total of 3 new trucks.

I happen to use Lucas Red-N-Tacky, but truthfully any gear grease is fine.  98% of the battle is greasing the gears, the other two percent is what grease you use.  This is a very low tech grease application, we're not building supersonic airplanes or precision machine tools.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I happen to use Lucas Red-N-Tacky, but truthfully any gear grease is fine.  98% of the battle is greasing the gears, the other two percent is what grease you use.  This is a very low tech grease application, we're not building supersonic airplanes or precision machine tools.

Thanks John, just wasn't sure if I sure look for something plastic compatible in case if it touches something plastic. Would Labelle 106 work ok for the worm drive?