Skip to main content

I will sum up this run of Daylight passengers with one word: spectacular.

The expectations were high given price point, and I was not disappointed

The quality control was good, I did not find any significant problems on my initial inspection besides one screw that fell out of the bottom of a car.

The paint application was good, the silver lines could have some room for improvement, but overall beautiful finish.

The fine corrugations and fine surface detail were very eye catching.

The cloth diaphragms are very innovative. The color disparity between the metal finish and the cloth was about what I expected. I used superglue on the inside of the first row of diaphragm corrugations which was effective to reduce bulging.

The interiors are very well done, I particularly like the interior of the kitchen car and the 3/4 dome car.

The separately packed details are a nice touch, but I am not clear on the installation of the grab steps. Has anyone installed the separately packed steps (see below)? Pictures would be helpful.

Special thanks to Scott Mann, Jonathan, and the team from Golden Gate Depot for bringing these amazing products to market.


I hope Scott can continue to find a way to produce trains like this within economical reach of consumers

673039C6-3F6A-4E15-A914-26B4D19C68315C5A4BCB-17E4-447A-97D5-9B4EE3C78278D175DCBC-DCA3-416F-A0EF-4570A9890E2D6BCE9B13-E4D8-4022-8E74-56850D2EC20AEE4424E3-D7C8-42F0-894C-2A7515AA66DDF66C76F0-11B8-4241-975C-004040ADF801693CB953-8C87-4DB0-89F4-AE11B04E6A7DAEE27997-AE7F-4646-9040-68A005AAEAFE4B5CF7E8-8E34-4556-A6C8-6C2F605B3A018CF3EAF1-1D4A-452F-8A71-C030B8988E67EA9236E4-AEA6-4B19-A187-F3C55101131F668C0D9A-8931-4BC0-8B70-652699361F143F512B79-0E16-47AB-ABED-69BC3FDB9465

Attachments

Images (13)
  • 673039C6-3F6A-4E15-A914-26B4D19C6831
  • 5C5A4BCB-17E4-447A-97D5-9B4EE3C78278
  • D175DCBC-DCA3-416F-A0EF-4570A9890E2D
  • 6BCE9B13-E4D8-4022-8E74-56850D2EC20A
  • EE4424E3-D7C8-42F0-894C-2A7515AA66DD
  • F66C76F0-11B8-4241-975C-004040ADF801
  • 693CB953-8C87-4DB0-89F4-AE11B04E6A7D
  • AEE27997-AE7F-4646-9040-68A005AAEAFE
  • 4B5CF7E8-8E34-4556-A6C8-6C2F605B3A01
  • 8CF3EAF1-1D4A-452F-8A71-C030B8988E67
  • EA9236E4-AEA6-4B19-A187-F3C55101131F
  • 668C0D9A-8931-4BC0-8B70-652699361F14
  • 3F512B79-0E16-47AB-ABED-69BC3FDB9465
Videos (1)
trim.DFD8C0D8-6230-4AE5-B93D-8DB179C6A7AF

Hancock- there are a few color company photos of the 3601 and later cars in this book
Also the conceptual artwork and drawings are reproduced showing color schemes and trim. Also Amtrak is covered and the complete disposition of the series. I have the whole collection of these books; some of the best passenger car books published. John Signor is a genius.

A11757A1-A40D-4E3C-8AEC-7A86C1F2F42A

Yes Eric. These ARE the best set of references available. (But V1 is now Out of Print). They are huge, heavy and usually expensive - $100 - 150 each. They are available from the SP Historical Society. Used copies can sometimes be found elsewhere. They are a must for the SP modeler.

Hancock- there are a few color company photos of the 3601 and later cars in this book
Also the conceptual artwork and drawings are reproduced showing color schemes and trim. Also Amtrak is covered and the complete disposition of the series. I have the whole collection of these books; some of the best passenger car books published. John Signor is a genius.

Agreed. And I see that info now; previously was too focused on #3600, which is the one I hoped would be built. Scott told me he might, but it would be a while before it could be done and, of course, it depends on orders. I have an HO custom run version of #3600 but it’s not a patch on what Scott has done with these, especially as the interiors go.

I would not be surprised at all if there was another run of domes after word gets around about these, and maybe that will provide scope for the 10-window original version.

Hancock- there are a few color company photos of the 3601 and later cars in this book
Also the conceptual artwork and drawings are reproduced showing color schemes and trim. Also Amtrak is covered and the complete disposition of the series. I have the whole collection of these books; some of the best passenger car books published. John Signor is a genius.

A11757A1-A40D-4E3C-8AEC-7A86C1F2F42A

Eric,   I’m away without my ref books. My curiosity is killing me. What Car #  / interior configuration went to Amtrak ?  🤔

@Cogen1981 posted:

I will sum up this run of Daylight passengers with one word: spectacular.

The expectations were high given price point, and I was not disappointed

The quality control was good, I did not find any significant problems on my initial inspection besides one screw that fell out of the bottom of a car.

The paint application was good, the silver lines could have some room for improvement, but overall beautiful finish.

The fine corrugations and fine surface detail were very eye catching.

The cloth diaphragms are very innovative. The color disparity between the metal finish and the cloth was about what I expected. I used superglue on the inside of the first row of diaphragm corrugations which was effective to reduce bulging.

The interiors are very well done, I particularly like the interior of the kitchen car and the 3/4 dome car.

The separately packed details are a nice touch, but I am not clear on the installation of the grab steps. Has anyone installed the separately packed steps (see below)? Pictures would be helpful.

Special thanks to Scott Mann, Jonathan, and the team from Golden Gate Depot for bringing these amazing products to market.


I hope Scott can continue to find a way to produce trains like this within economical reach of consumers

673039C6-3F6A-4E15-A914-26B4D19C68315C5A4BCB-17E4-447A-97D5-9B4EE3C78278D175DCBC-DCA3-416F-A0EF-4570A9890E2D6BCE9B13-E4D8-4022-8E74-56850D2EC20AEE4424E3-D7C8-42F0-894C-2A7515AA66DDF66C76F0-11B8-4241-975C-004040ADF801693CB953-8C87-4DB0-89F4-AE11B04E6A7DAEE27997-AE7F-4646-9040-68A005AAEAFE4B5CF7E8-8E34-4556-A6C8-6C2F605B3A018CF3EAF1-1D4A-452F-8A71-C030B8988E67EA9236E4-AEA6-4B19-A187-F3C55101131F668C0D9A-8931-4BC0-8B70-652699361F143F512B79-0E16-47AB-ABED-69BC3FDB9465

Can we see your entire layout, it looks magnificent.

Rich

@Erik C LindgrenThanks for sharing the link again. I bookmarked it! Did you stratchbuild those fabulous buildings? If they are kits I would love to know where you got some of them! I know what you mean, this forum contains a wealth of knowledge, no doubt, but it can be a negative place too. I hope you continue to post!

I have dome car 3604 and of course I agree it is the most stunning passenger car I have ever purchased. It is also the most expensive, but very much worth the cost. Up until this set of cars I thought my GGD Santa Fe Hi-Level set would be the best set I own. Incredibly this set is even better.

@TrainBubThanks for the information on the seating for the various car numbers. I have 3604 and the box indicates it is Number 1 of 4 possible numbers. Did Scott make a 3605 or 3606 with the different upper area seating?  If he did and anyone has one I would love to see pics of that interior. BTW, I watched your video and I saw your N de M F unit! Scott has really come through for us, hasn't he???!!!!

TT4T - Yes, 3605 was made (don't know about 3606). I have a 3605 (2-rail) but have not yet removed it from the box. It is car #2 on the label. I requested 3604 (for the San Joaquin Daylight) but received 3605 by mistake. The invoice included with the car shows that I should have been sent 3604. I have notified Scott and I hope to exchange the 3605 for a 3604. From what little of the car I can see I can't tell what the interior looks like.

@jbmccormick posted:

Wow - those are some gorgeous cars.  What is the 3 rail minimum radius for the curves?  Any sets still available?  I am limited to 0-54, not 0-72.

They're gonna need O-72 for sure, especially the articulated cars. You can put in a standby reservation on the website. I put in for another articulated chair car set. It'll probably be a couple weeks before we know if there are extras.

Ryan, we’re all adults here on OGR, after a few days I’ve pondered responding to your statement regarding the “correct way” to do number boards on a GS-4; did it ever cross your mind that maybe for a moment someone other than yourself may prefer the earlier version of GS-4 or they may model an era predating 1943? 🤔 Opinions are like that, if I may be blunt to remind those in interest everyone has them and none of them are right, or wrong. ☝️ Just saying, as the old saying goes. -Kindest of Regards 🙂

I never said the “as built” version was right or wrong, it just puzzles me that every manufacturer in every scale chooses to do the indicator boards the same way for SP Lines lettering. It’s as if they all failed to research the history completely. I’ve yet to see a GS-4 model in SP Lines with mid-boiler indicator boards in any scale even though this configuration would give the widest period of accuracy for the model. It’s so prevalent that I think most hobbyists think the forward mounted indicator boards are the only correct position for SP Lines lettering because that is all they see with the available models.

I suppose your observation about manufacturers prefering to do “as built” models is rather accurate. Although Lionel did decide to do the GS-1’s as late in their service lives with several modernizations and different tender assignments which I appreciated immensely.

No offense taken to your response, as you said we’re all adults here.

@T4TT posted:

@Erik C LindgrenThanks for sharing the link again. I bookmarked it! Did you stratchbuild those fabulous buildings? If they are kits I would love to know where you got some of them! I know what you mean, this forum contains a wealth of knowledge, no doubt, but it can be a negative place too. I hope you continue to post!

I have dome car 3604 and of course I agree it is the most stunning passenger car I have ever purchased. It is also the most expensive, but very much worth the cost. Up until this set of cars I thought my GGD Santa Fe Hi-Level set would be the best set I own. Incredibly this set is even better.

@TrainBubThanks for the information on the seating for the various car numbers. I have 3604 and the box indicates it is Number 1 of 4 possible numbers. Did Scott make a 3605 or 3606 with the different upper area seating?  If he did and anyone has one I would love to see pics of that interior. BTW, I watched your video and I saw your N de M F unit! Scott has really come through for us, hasn't he???!!!!

Well @T4TT, 3605 and 3606 have different upper seating. I have 3605 and here are 2 simple iphone pix (only so-so. Sorry) of it.

view of lower area - lounge.   Nice use of various colors - great contrasts.C595B5FD-069D-40A7-8A41-139B4887880D

View of upper area. Brown seating face each other.  Green are semi-circle benches.  White “circles” are drink holders  (and perhaps cigarette ashtray in center (haven’t looked closely yet)D0A612B8-A656-476B-9705-99F37E77EB94

Attachments

Images (2)
  • C595B5FD-069D-40A7-8A41-139B4887880D: 3605 Lower
  • D0A612B8-A656-476B-9705-99F37E77EB94: 3605 Upper

The floorplan on 3605 is very cool. Wish I could shrink down to 1:48 and sit in that lounge with stiff cocktail.

Earlier, Eric had an excellent picture of the serving area/bar. This’ll be where you can get refills. 🤣🤣🤣  The modelers will love this area - bartender mixing drinks and various bottles on a back shelf. 😬😜. It’ll need a few more participants though.
😝

Today was the first day I was able to run my set and I had a strange problem with the dome: the lights didn’t work. After verifying that they weren’t turned off, the car went to the work bench and got hooked to a test transformer. Clipping leads directly the the pickup roller and ground lug verified that the lights did in fact work.
After doing a continuity test on the ground circuit, I found that ground was not getting to the wheels. I detached one of the side frames and the culprit is the ball bearings were not getting grounded to the side frame. My guess is paint or glue has insulated the bearings. Rather than mess with removing the bearings, I solved the problem by adding a couple .020 phosphor bronze axle wipers. Easy fix and now the lights work perfectly.

008EB019-200F-47AA-B581-C7498003420F
53CC725B-D1A4-404D-B36E-99B248438079
I wonder how many other dome trucks may have had this assembly issue?

Attachments

Images (2)
  • 008EB019-200F-47AA-B581-C7498003420F
  • 53CC725B-D1A4-404D-B36E-99B248438079
@WinstonB posted:

Easy fix😅. Where does one find .020 phosphor bronze axel wipers?

The phosphor bronze wire I have is from Tichy Train Group. You can purchase it from Walthers. I keep a good stock of it in sizes from .010” to .032” for projects. It has good spring properties and is easy to solder to so its really good for making pickup wipers. May also be good for handrail material. I selected .020” diameter for this since it wouldn’t create a lot of extra drag on the wheel sets.

There’s a new separate thread for the Amtrak 3/4 dome car with pix. REALLY NICE - what else would they be ? !!!!  Interesting point is that it is Smooth Sided - different from the SP silver/red stripe car. I believe the sidings came off later due to corrosion problems. Hmmm. 🤔🤔🤔. I’ll have to check but I think there WAS SP solve/red stripe dome cars without the siding too.
IF SO, this sets up a neat run 2 variant to ask for !!!!!    

(Later). YEP. CHECKED. There was !!!

And —-> did anyone get a CP Dome ????? Are these to be the scarce as hens teeth items in this issue ???

Last edited by TrainBub

Erik, those GS models are gorgeous! Thank you for sharing.
Also having access to a 30’ x 50’ layout to operate that set is pretty awesome. I’m hoping I’ll be able to get a 24’ x 35’ room for my dream layout but I may be pushing my luck a bit on size.

On a side note as an SP details obsessive, I don’t quite understand why all model manufacturers imediately associate the forward position train indicator boards with SP Lines lettering, especially on GS-4/5 models. This essentially restricts your modeling era to late 1941/42. SP started moving the train indicator boards mid-boiler on the GS-4’s in 1942 because the original forward position made them hard to read at night because of the added MARS light blinding station personnel. By 1943 all GS engines had their indicator boards moved mid-boiler so the position would be standard.

Beautiful cars!  Thanks to all for the photos.

With regard to the GS number boards, actually, it seems that there are multiple photos with the GS forward indicator boards as late as 1946, although there may be exceptions.  That is why most people seem to associate that change with the SP Lines/"Southern Pacific" lettering change in 1946.

For example, from a lengthy discussion of the prototype GS-4 (and specifically 4449) in another forum:

Note; this is all based on photos of other locomotives. The book Southern Pacific Passenger Trains Vol 2 has numerous photos of the locos before and after the war. And all of the photos dated 1946 or later show the train number board moved to a more central location. Some of these photos show the same loco with the number board up front before 1946 and moved toward the back after 1946 (proving that existing locos were altered). I have not found any photos showing the 4449 either way. Photos of sisters 4448 and 4452 show the post-war change. Thus I am inferring that the 4449 was not an exception and was also changed. Since the number boards on the 4449 are now on the front again, I assume the number boards were returned to their original location (at the front) at some point. My guess being that this was done when it was restored for service on the American Freedom Train circa 1976.

Last edited by Jtrain
@Jtrain posted:

Beautiful cars!  Thanks to all for the photos.

With regard to the GS number boards, actually, it seems that there are multiple photos with the GS forward indicator boards as late as 1946, although there may be exceptions.  That is why most people seem to associate that change with the SP Lines/"Southern Pacific" lettering change in 1946.

For example, from a lengthy discussion of the prototype GS-4 (and specifically 4449) in another forum:

Note; this is all based on photos of other locomotives. The book Southern Pacific Passenger Trains Vol 2 has numerous photos of the locos before and after the war. And all of the photos dated 1946 or later show the train number board moved to a more central location. Some of these photos show the same loco with the number board up front before 1946 and moved toward the back after 1946 (proving that existing locos were altered). I have not found any photos showing the 4449 either way. Photos of sisters 4448 and 4452 show the post-war change. Thus I am inferring that the 4449 was not an exception and was also changed. Since the number boards on the 4449 are now on the front again, I assume the number boards were returned to their original location (at the front) at some point. My guess being that this was done when it was restored for service on the American Freedom Train circa 1976.

The train indicator number boards were originally, i.s. "as delivered" in the forward position (from about 1936 through 1941). When the first GS-4 locomotives were delivered in 1940/1941, the station agents and train order station operators began increasing their complaints about not being able to see/read the Train Number Indicators because of the bright headlight plus compounded by the bright Mars Oscillating light on the GS-4 locomotives. As a result, the Mechanical Dept. began relocating the Train Number Indicators, as well as changing the mounting angle, in order for better visibility from trackside.

When 4449 was removed from the park displaying 1974, for restoration and subsequent use on the American Freedom Train, she was restored to her "as delivered" appearance, i.e. with the Train Number Indicators moved back to the forward location.

When the AFT was concluded, and 4449 was returned to the city of Portland, OR, she was placed in indoor storage, until 1979/1980, at which point she was re-painted back to the post-1946 red, black and orange Daylight styling, which included the large "billboard" SOUTHERN PACIFIC lettering on the tender side, and the relocation of the Train Number Indicators to the approximate middle of the skyline casing, in preparation for her "new career" of excursion service with attendance at the California State RR Museum grand opening in May 1981. SP4449 remained in that post 1946 configuration until about 2001, at which time she was repainted again, back to her red, white and blue American Freedom Train styling as part of the 25th anniversary of the AFT.

Somewhere in all this, she was also repainted black for the BN Employee Appreciation Special. Finally, in the Mid-2000s, 4449 was repainted back to the famous Daylight colors of red, black and orange, but in her original "as delivered" (1941) configuration with the Train Number Indicators moved forward and the small "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering high up on the sides of the tender, which she still retains today.

Hot Water concisely stated the history of why the boards moved. According to Robert Church in his GS book, the mechanical department started moving the boards in mid 1942, about 6-8 months after the GS-4’s were delivered. The GS-6 was delivered in 1943 and they came with the boards mounted mid boiler which is in line with the direction SP intended to go.

I have no idea the timeline for each Gs-4/5 locomotive getting its boards repositioned. As with most railroads, its not hard to imagine there were a few stragglers who kept the as delivered mounting fairly late, especially since SP had a lot of war traffic and needed every loco in service ASAP. I know they began the process in ‘42, no idea when the conversion was actually completed. One would have to consult the shop records for each locomotive.

Hot Water concisely stated the history of why the boards moved. According to Robert Church in his GS book, the mechanical department started moving the boards in mid 1942, about 6-8 months after the GS-4’s were delivered. The GS-6 was delivered in 1943 and they came with the boards mounted mid boiler which is in line with the direction SP intended to go.

I have no idea the timeline for each Gs-4/5 locomotive getting its boards repositioned. As with most railroads, its not hard to imagine there were a few stragglers who kept the as delivered mounting fairly late, especially since SP had a lot of war traffic and needed every loco in service ASAP. I know they began the process in ‘42, no idea when the conversion was actually completed. One would have to consult the shop records for each locomotive.

That makes sense.  I think that it also makes sense for the model manufacturers to associate the early lettering with the front mounted GS number boards, because that would be correct for all but the GS-6 locomotives.  And the later lettering with the mid-boiler number boards also makes sense for the model manufacturers, because that should be correct for most, and probably all locomotives.

Add Reply

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Ste 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×