I know Grandt Line is not a huge supplier to O3r hobby.....but I have been using their plastic castings, 1000's of them, for 50 years. In my opinion this leaves a big void in the hobby and just another sign of the changes happening in the hobby. Tichy makes some good stuff but their catalog is no where near as big. Hope they stay around.
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LIONEL6457 posted:
As a 3 railer I failed to look in that forum. thx. No orders after 6/1/18 so if you want it do not wait until May 30 or you will miss out.
The hobby is undergoing the "death by a thousand cuts", it seems.
Just ordered my last order yesterday. Owner said they hope they can sell but no takers as of now. He had the company over 60 years and that's enough. They are a gold mine of parts. Sad to see them go. Don
Nothing stays the same. Ever wonder how many wonderful Train Shops and train related businesses have closed in the last ten years.
Too many.
jim sutter posted:Nothing stays the same. Ever wonder how many wonderful Train Shops and train related businesses have closed in the last ten years.
Too many.
I visited a nice store in PA run by a good fella once......
Having run a brick and mortar hobby shop and being a retired analyst I can understand stores closing to some extent. Now we a loosing hobby suppliers too......a real cornerstone like Grandt is tough.
WE need to buy from the Local Hobby Shop (LHS) even if it hurts (costs a little more).
It is very tempting to buy "everything from e-Bay" (note that much, maybe even MOST stuff on e-Bay is new and being sold by online people who compete w/ LHS'. It is not as much somebody's used stuff that they are auctioning off, like e-Bay was in the beginning), and soon "Buy from Amazon", etc.
But it will ultimately mean there is NO LHS to visit. Be willing to pay a little more, give the LHS an opportunity to earn your business (order for you, etc.), be willing to drive a little farther to the hobby shop in a neighboring town.
My layouts are 3-rail scale with scale-sized locomotives and rolling stock. My main model railroading interests are structures (from craftsman kits and scratch-built), bridges and scenery, and I prefer Grandt Line doors, windows and architectural details for my scratch-built structures. In my opinion this is a huge loss for the hobby and even kit manufacturers. I hope Grandt Line's product line is purchased and continued, and I think their closure is just a case of the owners wanting to retire. But, let's face it - there are fewer structure builders in O-scale/gauge today and most 1:48 model railroaders seem to prefer to purchase the wide range of pre-built structures available from several manufacturers rather than spending lots of hours patiently constructing structure models. The new emphasis is on digital control and electronics.
MELGAR
Mike Wyatt posted:It is very tempting to buy "everything from e-Bay" (note that much, maybe even MOST stuff on e-Bay is new and being sold by online people who compete w/ LHS'.
Much of the new stuff on eBay is being sold by LHS's expanding their marketing channels to keep with the times.
What, me worry?
Sad news for us "scratch builders". I keep my fingers crossed that Precision Scale stays around for a good while longer!
Alfred E Neuman posted:Mike Wyatt posted:It is very tempting to buy "everything from e-Bay" (note that much, maybe even MOST stuff on e-Bay is new and being sold by online people who compete w/ LHS'.
Much of the new stuff on eBay is being sold by LHS's expanding their marketing channels to keep with the times.
What, me worry?
Every online shop I buy from has a brick and mortar presence. In Houston, LHS with trains are limited, and those with any real O Scale offerings are more limited and sale and full retail or near to. Not sure why I should patronize them because their business model fails to keep up.
Wonder what the asking price for the Grandt Line business is? They make a lot of great stuff.
Not certain what local hobby shops have to do with Grandt Line closing. I thought Grandt Line was a manufacturer.
C W Burfle posted:Not certain what local hobby shops have to do with Grandt Line closing. I thought Grandt Line was a manufacturer.
And they also sold directly to the hobbyist. I have no idea why folks stir the support your LHS pot as a solution to everything. Some LHS did carry some GL stuff but they were passingly few. I never saw any point to having our long gone LHS order stuff from GL - they never restocked anything they did carry and placing orders there was akin to flushing toilet paper away. A phone call directly to GL resulted in a nice & friendly conversation, and my order was in the mailbox a week later.
"And they also sold directly to the hobbyist. I have no idea why folks stir the support your LHS pot as a solution to everything."
The LHS and every other brick-and-mortar retailer under pressure from online sources. It's unavoidable. Some LHS and local retailers didn't evolve from the product-centric, order-taking model. They've perished or are suffering and on their way to perishing because they can't compete by selling commodity products against lower-cost, online competitors. We tend to see this through the prism of model railroading, but it's everywhere. My favorite local bike shop closed. Now the owner has an online business doing repairs and consulting to buyers on what bikes to order. Revenue is down, but his personal income is up and exposure is reduced. No inventory to manage.
Retail in the 21st century needs to provide a buying experience and some service. Look at resellers, called VARs, in the hardware and software business. They provide in-field or in-office consulting, training, installation, and post-sale support services around their products. Do LHS' offer the same? Not many. I don't make the rules of the economy, I just live in it. Here are some suggestions for an old-school LHS:
Computerize your inventory. Even as a local, I'd like to see what's in stock, especially new old-stock at my LHS, without having to come in the door. I still might impulse-buy other items, but I want to see if you have what I want.
Offer paid-for training classes during/around business hours with working layouts and demonstrations. How to wire accessories without using track power, how to connect the Gateman light separate from the man, etc.
Offer support and service contracts with new engine purposes. For $50-$100/year, field calls for help with 24-48 hour response. Seems like many modern engines are temperamental.
Offer paid-for, how-to training on all the frustrations expressed on this forum like creative ways to keep Fastrack joined.
Offer paid-for training on layout building and modeling - I suck at scenery and would attend a class for sure if offered.
Offer paid-for training classes on basic maintenance of PW engines and operating cars and accessories.
Offer paid-for consulting on layout design, power choices, etc. Maybe travel to customers' homes to help on site (that might be tough to justify economically). This hobby can be complicated.
Selling pre-boxed engines and rolling stock from behind a sales counter doesn't work any longer. Buyers that prefer that method are dying every day while buyers accustomed to using a smartphone are becoming adults every day.
Truly this is another end-of-an-era! Grandt Line was the go to place when I modeled On3 in the 1980s.
Support your local Hobby Shop!
The LHS and every other brick-and-mortar retailer under pressure from online sources.
While I think the health of local hobby shops has little to do with Grandt Line shutting down, I am going to comment on Raising4Daughter's ideas.
I guess anything is worth a try, but I really doubt anybody is going to pay for extended support or classes. As I think about it, most hobby shops have to charge more for product than internet retailers. Shouldn't that 24-48 support by email already be part of the service hobby shops are already charging for?
I think people might be willing to pay a small fee to attend classes, but on the other hand, most folks are unwilling to purchase the various reference materials that have been published. People expect free information. How many people use this board to have other people look up answers? How many people use the Tandem Associates site and/or the Olsen's web site? And there is a lot of material available on YouTube.
I can think of three Model Railroad specialty shops within about 45 minutes of my house. I don't visit any of them on a regular basis. I don't buy newly made trains of any brand, and at this point only buy older trains on rare occasion. If a hobby shop had something I was looking to obtain at a price I was willing to pay, sure I'd buy it. When I get around to building my next layout, I would be likely to purchase supplies locally. Right now the only material I am likely to need would be CA glue. (I need some right now)
When my kids were doing HO and/or N gauge, we purchased most of it at local hobby shops. But those days are over. They are now adults, and are too busy for trains. If they ever wanted to start back up, with the exception of track, paint and glue, I probably have everything they could possibly need on hand.
raising4daughters posted:Computerize your inventory. Even as a local, I'd like to see what's in stock, especially new old-stock at my LHS, without having to come in the door. I still might impulse-buy other items, but I want to see if you have what I want.
That should really be a no-brainer. Most shops should have some kind of computer system in this day and age and keeping track of ordering and inventory is of the utmost importance.
Offer paid-for training classes during/around business hours with working layouts and demonstrations. How to wire accessories without using track power, how to connect the Gateman light separate from the man, etc.
The trouble with this is there has to be a "critical mass" of customers willing to pay for this and someone has to hold the class. Doing it one-on-one for a fee is a losing proposition.
Offer support and service contracts with new engine purposes. For $50-$100/year, field calls for help with 24-48 hour response. Seems like many modern engines are temperamental.
There has to be someone familiar enough with today's products to this on a regular basis AND have support from the manufacturers. If parts and factory technical advice aren't there or you don't call back soon enough, you'll wind up with customers more p*ssed off than before. In a previous life, I was a service guy for a computer manufacturer (and yeah, there were times I had to call for support,) customers can get very irate if you cant get parts or take too long to fix something, especially when they feel entitled by the service contract.
Offer paid-for, how-to training on all the frustrations expressed on this forum like creative ways to keep Fastrack joined.
Offer paid-for training on layout building and modeling - I suck at scenery and would attend a class for sure if offered.
Offer paid-for training classes on basic maintenance of PW engines and operating cars and accessories.
Offer paid-for consulting on layout design, power choices, etc. Maybe travel to customers' homes to help on site (that might be tough to justify economically). This hobby can be complicated.
Again, there has to be a critical mass of customers willing to pay and show up at the prescribed time for this to be viable.
Maybe, I'm a dinosaur about this, but the hobby is more than just about the trains. It's also about learning how to do some of this basic stuff. Sure, when I started out back when the earth was cooling I made plenty of mistakes and screw-ups, but I learned as I went along and some of the skills I leaned along the way helped me with non-model train things.
Selling pre-boxed engines and rolling stock from behind a sales counter doesn't work any longer.
?????????? Seems to work OK for the hobby shops I frequent.
Buyers that prefer that method are dying every day while buyers accustomed to using a smartphone are becoming adults every day.
Sure, there are folks that don't have a store in their area anymore, but using a smartphone for ordering is no different than using the, phone (you know, actually talk to someone,) computer or mail to buy something. Plus, look at the posts where folks are saying they're tired of sending defective stuff back to the dealer or manufacturer.
Sometimes, I think with all this app stuff, people will soon not have the skill to put a key in a keyhole.
Rusty
Again OFF TOPIC......my great LHS carries zero Grandt Line.......
I am pretty sure that my grand daughters, now 6 & 8, will by the time they are 30, will reminisce about how they had to get in a car and drive to a store to buy things and then they had to carry it home themselves!!
The cost of a storefront will kill them all. Hobby shops included. Look at Amazon....running robots to pull items, no lights needed, no shop lifting, no liability insurance, not having to heat and cool a big box store, taxes in high rate areas....on and on......change....only constant.
Mike Wyatt posted:WE need to buy from the Local Hobby Shop (LHS) even if it hurts (costs a little more).
It is very tempting to buy "everything from e-Bay" (note that much, maybe even MOST stuff on e-Bay is new and being sold by online people who compete w/ LHS'. It is not as much somebody's used stuff that they are auctioning off, like e-Bay was in the beginning), and soon "Buy from Amazon", etc.
But it will ultimately mean there is NO LHS to visit. Be willing to pay a little more, give the LHS an opportunity to earn your business (order for you, etc.), be willing to drive a little farther to the hobby shop in a neighboring town.
Couldn't agree more with your statement but the LHS is facing extinction because of eBay, the exorbitant costs of rent, but mainly the changing demographics of those that participate in hobbies. Our last hobby shop, ten miles from here, closed because the owner was getting on in years and there was no one there who wanted to continue in such a business. As for Grandt line they catered to the ever shrinking scratch building market and there is another source for plastic windows, doors and detail parts serving that niche. Also consider Menards and Woodland Scenics offer finished highly detailed structures.
AMCDave posted:Again OFF TOPIC......my great LHS carries zero Grandt Line.......
Look at Amazon....running robots to pull items, no lights needed, no shop lifting, no liability insurance, not having to heat and cool a big box store, taxes in high rate areas....on and on......change....only constant.
I dunno. Looks like Amazon still needs most of those things:
Rusty
Look into what they are developing. They got a patent this week for AI they developed that can interpret human hand gestures. This will be used in their drones and order pulling robots. Amazon's goal is to automate their entire supply chain. Humans are a temp fix.
Dennis LaGrua posted:As for Grandt line they catered to the ever shrinking scratch building market and there is another source for plastic windows, doors and detail parts serving that niche. Also consider Menards and Woodland Scenics offer finished highly detailed structures.
For some people including myself, now and in the future, the main source of enjoyment in the hobby is building things as much as running trains - structures, bridges, scenery and the layout itself. That is why I regard Grandt Line's closure as a major loss. I also do not use any pre-built structures, but it seems that's not typical in O gauge these days. I think the declining interest in designing and building things is not a good development for the hobby or the USA.
MELGAR - retired after a 46 year career as an aerospace/mechanical engineer.
I dunno. Looks like Amazon still needs most of those things:
Watched the (thankfully) short video. The guys loading the boxes into the truck remind me of working at United Parcel doing "shape-up" almost 35 years ago. I worked at a hub loading a 40 ft. trailer destined for the next hub. The arrangement looked about the same.
Depending on which warehouse bay / trailer was available, either conveyor rollers were built into the trailer, going all the way to the front, or the belt could be extended right into the trailer.
One difference: at Amazon, it looked like two people were doing the loading. At UPS it was one person to a trailer.
Charlienassau posted:Support your local Hobby Shop!
How much of the Grandt Line catalog did you stock?
The world is changing my friends......
Yes It is...and always will be. Infinite uncertainty...and perpetual change. Enjoy the adventure 
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