Help with screws for AJIN Brass E8

Not to be overly nitpicky, but this is a phase II E7.  The spotting features are the roof vents in lieu of fans, the lack of a continuous filter grille along the side, the vent compartment behind the door, and specific to a late phase E7 are replacement of paired windows with vents.  Much like the F3 built during the same period, the E7 was an evolution of design specifications that changed quickly from the E5/6 prewar locomotives to the E8s of late 1949.

As for the screw, have you tried looking at the brass screw section at Ace Hardware?  I have found more than one good match going through the miscellaneous bins of brass screws.  I believe Overland imported a lot of Ajin product.  The trainphone antenna gives it away as a PRR prototype.

A great find!  Enjoy!

You can get a pretty complete metric mini screw assortments at Amazon for about ten bucks. If you have or plan to have a number of these its more than worth the investment. 1.5 to 3 or 4 mm diameters.

Pete

Robbin, get your hands on a SAE/METRIC screw checker, …..nice ones around 10 bucks on popular shopping venues, ……Working with brass models, the need for screw identification will be almost commonplace……save yourself a big headache and look into one!…So while you’re shopping for Pete’s recommendation, stick a screw checker in the cart too…….😉

Pat

Robbin, nice E7 find. Most brass trains are made in Orient so they will use metric screws.

Gonna be metric. Probably an M2, 4mm long. You can get a "life supply" of them from McMaster Carr or other supply houses. Amazon probably has them too.  If you just need one, try the local hardware stores (not big box), but not every place will have them that small.

I believe those are M3, could be M2. I have some of the originals and could send you one, or I typically replace them with ‘laptop screws’, lots of good assortments out there very reasonably.

Thanks GG1!  When I was writing I was struggling to figure out what I had bid on (and won).  E7 is great!

And yes this was sold with a huge number of Overland models but this one had no box, so it makes sense (and I assumed, hoped) it was an overland model.

And right again on the PRR as there was a ton of PRR engines.  All brass.  I tried to get a few but this was my only success.  My first diesel two rail to go with the steam fleet!

Should be fun to get this running.  Looks like it has been quite some time since it ran so need to lube and such.

Thank you all for the screw size recommendations, checker and kits.  I will definitely get those!

And what a great group!! I sincerely appreciate the help and advice!

@Robbin posted:

Thanks GG1!  When I was writing I was struggling to figure out what I had bid on (and won).  E7 is great!

And yes this was sold with a huge number of Overland models but this one had no box, so it makes sense (and I assumed, hoped) it was an overland model.

And right again on the PRR as there was a ton of PRR engines.  All brass.  I tried to get a few but this was my only success.  My first diesel two rail to go with the steam fleet!

Should be fun to get this running.  Looks like it has been quite some time since it ran so need to lube and such.

I like the E7, especially for PRR as they lasted in some cases into the Conrail era with NJDOT.  They pulled the great limiteds all across the PRR system into the PC years and closed out their days in the more mundane duty of commuter service.  There are even a few photos of PC E7s in early Amtrak service.  E8s and E9s often get all the glory, but the E7 more than proved its value and is indicated in the numbers produced with 428 A units and 82 B units compared to 450 E8As and 46 E8Bs.  The E9 while the most powerful and modern of the E units only had 100 As and 44 Bs built.  Just evidence that both passenger service was starting to decline, and the cab unit era was nearly its end.

While many E8s/E9s exist, the only surviving E7 is the PRR one in Strasburg.   

Does your model have the nose mounted lift rings?

The Amazon screw assortments that Pete suggested is the way I went.  I have several of them, and I have everything from 1.4mm screws to 4mm screws in various lengths.  Very useful.

Oddly, it's much harder to find a similar assortment of SAE screws, the metric assortments are everywhere.

Most of our trains are made overseas where metric is the norm.

Brass trains have historically been almost exclusively imported since the 1950's staring with Japan, Korea in the early 1980's, and then to China near the turn of the century.  It makes complete sense that all the screws would be metric.

Japan adopted the Metric system in 1868, so they have had a little more experience than us here in the world of nonsensical imperial units.

@harley rider posted:

Most of our trains are made overseas where metric is the norm.

True, but Lionel and MTH have been making trains overseas for a long time, and they still have quite a number of SAE screws.

Yes it has the PRR standard nose left rings.

I have another question though.  In the gear lube effort they have a gear box on each axle.  Anyone have experience opening these up or a video somewhere?  I did the gear tower last night.  Would have been easier if I was willing to replace the tubing in the drive.  Any ideas on what to order to replace the tubing (is it rubber?)?  I would think this is pretty standard in working on these engines from the look of the drive system.

This model may have never run.  It looks like couplers were never installed.  I ran it and it is doing okay but I would like to add new lubricant everywhere as I have read they did not come lubricated from the factory.  The tower however did have oil inside or some kind of lubricant that I cleaned out before putting in some Labelle (102 I think?) gear lube.

I'm not sure what the tubing is, but the one time I had to deal with one of those coffee grinder drives, I figured out the parts to convert it from the vertical gearbox to a toothed belt drive. The axle boxes come apart in halves, there will be some fiber or plastic shim washers keep track of the count and the location. Its best to service one axle box then move to the next.  If you clean out the old grease, you can replace it with new, reassemble and spin test the input shafts to make sure they run free. Note the position of each gearbox as there is an inner, middle and outer axle box for each truck. The trucks also benefit from adding pickup wipers in order to get 12 wheel pickup, instead of relying on the truck sideframes to pass power.

You mention tubing drive and rubber. I watched video many years ago on servicing a brass HO Steamer. They replaced what was there with surgical tubing.  Mentioned it was the hot setup to smooth things out. I just googled it and you can purchase it in different diameters.

Thanks on the suggestions!  I will proceed with the truck axle gearboxes carefully.

And thanks for the suggestion on the wipers.  I may have been seeing some issues already but had assumed I needed to clean the wheels or test track.

Yes the surgical tubing looks like it would replace what is there.  I will take the calipers and figure out what ID is required.

My father at 82 does all my mechanical work for me because he enjoys it a lot more than I do.  On an Overland P5a, he replaced the tubing with fish tank tubing much like he's done with HO brass with similar drives.  He did not take the gear boxes apart though because they had signs of cracking and didn't want them to break.  Thankfully it runs, but best practice is to take out the old grease and use modern lithium greases and then these less than stellar drives do run much better.

More than any other class of PRR passenger diesels the E7's appearance changed noticeably over their long service lives. The wire steps up the right side of the nose on your model date it to 1960 or later.  An earlier prototype detail change relates to number boards.   As built PRR E7 A units featured somewhat small "streamline" number boards.  For reason of visibility in the mid 1950's PRR shops began retrofitting distinctive large rectangular stand-off number boards to the E7's.  Overland E7's came with a parts bag that included number board castings to model various eras. To detail, paint, and letter your model in a prototype fashion you'll need to do some research.  IMO the best source for info and dated photos on PRR E7's is PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD Diesel Locomotive Pictorial Volume 7 - EMD E Units and Alco PA's by Paul K. Withers.

Thank you all for the great information!  
I finished the removal of the old grease and was test running.  There seems to be a bind and it seems like it is in the vertical gear box.  I’m going to disassemble it tomorrow and clean more thoroughly.

i looked briefly at replacing the vertical gearbox like boiler maker mentioned.  Any thoughts on where to find toothed gears and belts? I looked at 3d rail site but they didn’t list parts.

Thanks Ed!

my model came without a box and so no parts like number boards either.  I will see about making modifications before painting (not that I have painted anything but I do have some spray guns).  The model needs at the least windows and headlight lens (and headlight I think) to finish it off.  Oh and couplers!

Quite the adventure.  I will be more careful about what I get myself into but you dont know what you dont know.

Thanks again!

a couple comments on the drive train: Toyota #0 tubing has worked well as a replacement tube. it has a fairly thick wall section. I used it on an Overland P5a boxcab engine as replacements.

To convert to a cog and belt drive, try 'Stock Drive Components-Sterling Instruments' (SPD/SI). I've used them for rebuilding Weaver drives and have sourced cog and belt parts from them. They have a utility that helps figure correct sized belts for their cogs.

There are other robotic parts suppliers that will also have the components needed.

Great!  Thank you so much for the recommendations Chris!

I worked more on the vertical drive train (pictured below) and the axle worm gear (transfer?) cases.  I found that the old grease was really stuck on the gears and what I had done was not sufficient.  And one of the axle gears was binding which I am in the process of trying to fix.

So working it.