Here is the main reason why people are purchasing the new GG1...

I am glad some people have money.  I buy mostly used stuff and run conventional. I guess in a few years this too will be outdated. When the novelty wears off,maybe someone will buy it for half MSRP. Still too much for my budget.  I looked at a post with an online catalog of MTH the other day. Engines approaching $1500 and rolling stock at $65 each. I have been in the hobby 20 years or more,and can tell you the price increases over this time way beyond the 2 percent inflation rate the government tells us we have. Menards has the right idea IMO with $20 rolling stock. Williams has the right idea for engines, i.e.  the KISS principle,  Even the latter are raising their prices.

In another post I guy has been waiting almost 6 months for a repair. Expensive engine,backlog or no parts parts available. No response from the company that sold it. We all enjoy the hobby in our own way but this is not my way. I,for one will not purchase the legacy GG1. Not knocking those who do.

Dale H

While Legacy is a reason many will buy a new version of an engine, I don't think that's the main reason here.  I purchased last year, a NOS JLC GG1 at a great price.  For only having TMCC and Odyssey II, that sucker is very smooth running and can really creep.  Legacy is not going to improve the speed control enough to warrant a new sale.  I think what will sell people is the sparking pans, and the upgraded sounds.  Legacy railsounds sounds are far better than anything else Lionel has put out. I also think the new paint schemes will help.  Finally, the option to have a riveted GG1 versus a welded body is a nice touch.  I do not know of any manufacturer who has a done a riveted GG1.

I doubt it will sell as well as the big boy did.  I'm on the fence about ordering one.  I would not mind getting a riveted GG1 or the 5 pin stripe version as I do not have either of those.  The price will determine if I decide to get one.  The JLCs only sold for 800 MSRP. They have to come close to that price point for me to bite.

Third Rail imported the riveted GG1; said to be very nice.

I think you have a fair point but I doubt that Legacy control on its own will prompt most people into buying what is supposed to be a VISION LINE engine. As far as I am concerned, it's the possible improvement in sound effects that could push me over the edge as regards ordering this engine. If there are catenary wire sounds as well as sparking and the promised engine-specific crew/tower announcements that would be a manifest improvement over the JLC version, which while beautifully made is just a bit dull on the sound front. Mine really sounds identical to my MTH PS2 Little Joe.

Anyhow, using the Legacy CAB2 don't you get the electric engine icons (like pantograph controls) on the touchpad even if it's a TMCC engine? That's what I remember from the last time I ran my JLC GG1 under the newest revision of the Legacy software.

How is TMCC inconvenient? And how would you know since you don't have legacy? I have both TMCC and Legacy locos and I have both TMCC and Legacy remotes. TMCC runs great on my legacy remote, doesn't sound as good as some of the legacy stuff but  when it was made, it was the best there is. Legacy and TMCC are essentially the same thing except Legacy has a slightly longer command string than TMCC does giving you more options for control

I plan on buying the Conrail Bicentennial scheme VL GG1.  That is the main reason I am getting one - I like Bicentennial schemes.  I don't think they did that scheme the JLC run.

I don't own any other GG1's.  If the price is surprisingly low (yeah, I know... but I can dream a little, can't I?), I might be interested in a second one in a welded-body green paint scheme.

Andy

My reasons would be this...

**Legacy

**Updated Sounds and features

**IR Sensor

What will turn me off is over priced.  I suspect because of this a JLC version will be more likely.

Consider yourself corrected.

It's no problem to run TMCC engines with the Legacy system, that "reasoning" makes no sense at all.

I'll agree that other considerations make the Legacy version a better buy, the IR sensor comes to mind for those of us that have sensor tracks, and more speed steps is nice.  The only one I'd consider might be the riveted one, but I'll be on the fence for a spell.

Do you think the led sparks in the pantographs will be cool? 

It prolly will be neat the first couple times you see it, then I am sure, like everything, the novelty will wear off. I remeber the first time I saw whistle steam I wthought it was the greatest thing ever, and I have a few locos with it, but now I couldn't care less

The looked cool Steve, but I don't know that they're cool enough for me to spend a ton of money to get them.

I have the JLC version and like that one a lot.  I would consider a all BLACK PC Version, but according to Lionel that isn't going to happen, so I doubt I will purchase one.

My 5x8 layout will only handle semi-scale. That saves me a small fortune, as well as frustration if a $$$$ engine goes to H.

Scott Mann may be cursing his luck because to go with GGD's new Silver Meteor sets there was an announcement of a a new 3rd Rail version of the GG1 with an improved drive mechanism. Lionel's decision to go with a new version of the GG1 will necessarily cut across that although the 3rd Rail version probably appeals to a different market. 

You mean the folks that desire more correct details in their SCALE models, market?

I would buy a 3rd rail over the Lionel Vision Line 10 to 1 especially since I'm guessing the price wont be that far from each other, Lionel may charge more on the retail end. #rd rail trains are significantly nicer than any of the Lionel stuff.

Yep, if the pantograph is touching a wire, if not, then it looks like you need lots of imagination.

    Bill T.

Nick,

I could not disagree more.

I own all six JLC GG-1's and I use Legacy and TMCC.

The GG-1 is my favorite locomotive and I was at the Pennsy Railroad Museum last week to see and listen to the new Vision Line GG-1. I know the new sounds are stereo, but the sound file used in the new GG-1 sounds EXACTLY the same to me as my JLC models. Much digital sound is omni-directional anyway so if you prefer the stereo for all that extra money, go for it. Sounds of an electric loco are quite similar to other electrics. Most of the sound of a GG-1 in motion is drowned out by the train itself. What to pay for that?

As far as Legacy speeds, the JLC versions are very smooth. Arcing and sprung pantographs? Under what? Do you really want to accentuate the fact that there is no wire up there? Really? It's a GG-1. It's supposed to have a wire.

What's the list price going to be? Have you ever seen a manufacturer make a big splash announcement for an expensive loco and then withhold the price? 

For goodness sakes, GIVE us the price !! 

You do have to have 1.6 to get the icons.

Hmm, you may be right. Please let me know.

The cynic in me says they're looking at the response before setting how much "wiggle room" to give the big dealers for the expected feeding frenzy on pre-order discount pricing.  (Remember the price cut frenzy on the VL BB?)

Rusty

There is a Legacy 1.6?

Let me see, you want me to buy the new version of the gg1, you make a big announcement, engine on display to show all the new features.

You want us to order it, WHAT THE HELL IS THE PRICE!!! You must think the buyers have oatmeal for brains if you think that is going to work.

Fire the guy who thought this roll out up.

Yep!

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...5&productNumber=

Look under Legacy Products and you'll see the download for 1.6

For me you would be right and wrong.  I have both TMCC and Legacy.  I had TMCC for a couple years before Legacy, but I still picked conventional over TMCC.  I loved my TMCC locomotives, they had more pleasing sounds to my ears then the conventional locomotives did, but I still didn't use the command set.  Then when the VL BB was announced, I had to get it being it was my favorite locomotive.  And so I ponied up and got a Legacy command set too so that I could experience all it had to offer, but I still was planning on being a conventional operator.  Getting the 990 before the BB didn't change that.  Even with the Cab-2, I still liked running conventional better.  It wasn't until I got the BB and ran it under Legacy that I was then blown away at how awesome it was.  I have since bought 3 more Legacy steamers and have sights on a couple diesels too.  But most of the Legacy locomotives that I would like are big and require more than the O36 I want to run on.  I have a loop of O72 for the BB, and I'd rather not keep getting more O72 locomotives as that'd make the loop rather crowded.  I love the GG1, I have the K-Line TMCC version and love it.  I would love the VL GG1, the better sound set with the wire noises, the sparking and auto moving pantographs, and higher detail over my K-Line would totally make it a sale for me.  But I'm guessing the price will be $1500+ on the street, which will kill it for me.  Legacy control would be only one reason for me to get it, but the other VL features will be higher up on the reason list in the end.

Ken from Trainworld has a few new videos posted here in a link, including the action of the sparking from the pantographs.   Actually looks very cool, with matching sound effects.

I already own two JLC GG1's that I recently purchased this year at great prices.  The only reason I would even consider one of these Vision Line GG1's is the bicentennial paint scheme.  That's it... end of discussion.  I could care less about simulated arcing pantographs or a Legacy electronics "upgrade".  Many TMCC locomotives operate VERY smoothly with the Legacy/Cab2 controllers in place.  So running TMCC locomotives under Legacy control is a no-brainer.

As for the roll-out with no pricing.  I think that is a very silly -- almost amateurish strategy.  And I don't use that critique lightly.  I called Atlas-O out on it years ago when they first published catalogs with TBA pricing, and I'll do it again with Lionel here.  There is only one reason Lionel would hold back the pricing... and it has nothing to do with getting final production costs from China.  They already know those costs -- if not exactly, then at least close enough to announce MSRP pricing.  Rather it has everything to do with generating marketing buzz/hype, getting enthusiasts excited about the product for a couple of months, getting a checkpoint on initial reactions to the preview announcement, and then bang... hit enthusiasts with an inflated price after the marketing buzz has had a couple of months to get its grip on everybody.  I hope Lionel proves me wrong, but let's see what happens when the 2016 Volume 1 catalog is released in late January.

David 

Legacy? What ever happened to Command Control?

Im still trying to get The MTH System to work.

Trying to simplify

Gentlemen,

   I have 3 GG1's now, the P2 Brunswick Green one striper being my favorite, and depending on the final cost I might even purchase the new Legacy version,  for me it will come down to final cost.  

PCRR/Dave

You should apply for the job. 

Mike R, and Mr. Kunkle (forgot his first name) both said the pricing will be announced before ordering is allowed.

Well, duh!  I certainly hope so!

I think the point was that we will know the price come January. So people whining about not knowing right now what the price is is not really constructive. And neither is replying with a 'duh' to someone's comment.

Above:

"3rd rail trains are significantly nicer than any of the Lionel stuff."

- No, they are not; ever owned any? I have/do. Often mechanically/electronically challenged, and detailing is not typically superior, these days. The thin brass cross-section on some parts is nice, though. But, otherwise...

============

- "Pantograph arcing"; seriously? There's still no catenary. This will look (does look - on the video)...never mind. 

===========

- The "Old Rivets" car body was different from that of the production, welded GG1. Not just the rivets, but the very shape of the top of the nose is different, among other things. The nose of the riveted one looks more like the PRR Modified P-5 2-C-2.

Have these changes been made? Probably; don't know.

========

- Still no catenary. Not a PRR fan as such, so I'll have no decision to make, thankfully.

I have lots of 3rd Rail and they are much nicer although the tender tether could look better the rest of them are beautiful

Why don't some of you guys just open your checkbook and send Lionel a blank check with a note... "Please fill in whatever price you'd like for the new Vision Line GG1... I'm all in for whatever price you'd like to charge me.  In fact, send me all 8 of them." 

More to the point... I probably could send that note to Lionel if I had dollar for every time some of you guys characterize good commentary as "whining", "complaining" or "negative".  Those have been some of the most over-used words around here lately, when all we're really trying to do is point out best of breed business practices that are often overlooked (for whatever reason) in this corner of the world we call a hobby but is really a bona-fide business by a company like Lionel.  But oh yes, I forgot, the Lionel-can-do-no-wrong crowd doesn't want to hear about that anyway.    You guys are amazing.  Get over it and grow a thicker skin... or at best, be open to someone's tongue-in-cheek humor when the obvious is stated. 

David 

I'll second this statement! I have 19 or 20 Sunset/3rd Rail brass steam locomotive models and I'll match the details against ANY diecast steam model produced by either MTH or Lionel. With the diecast steam models, much of the boiler details are obviously "cast in", which is NOT/NEVER the case with hand made brass models of steam locomotives, in fact many of the components are "lost wax investment casting".