Here is the main reason why people are purchasing the new GG1...

But Lionel is out to get us!!! *puts on tinfoil hat*

 

Come on Neil, Lionel's bean counters have already set a recommended price, they know what their margins will be if X amount are sold. If it is well received they can adjust up, if in the dumpster adjust downward.

 

    Bill T.

Actually the Lionel people, probably, had a retail price in mind when they were planning to bring the model to market. Usually when you plan a new item you have a target price for the segment of the market you are  aiming for.

"If it is well received they can adjust up, if in the dumpster adjust downward."

 

And just how would they know?  In a quantitative and reliable fashion.  Not by monitoring the chest beating and garment rending here, for sure.

 

Perhaps they are using one of the internet/social media pipeline marketing analytic services, like bitly.com, but I rather doubt it.  If you've listened to Howard Hitchcock, Mike Reagan and their colleagues talking, in person or on Notch 6, these are  intelligent and passionate professionals with not a cynical bone in their bodies.  They don't play games, despite Mike's dark sense of humor.  I believe suggesting they are manipulating their customers/friends in this way is the height of disrespect.  They have a reasonably close idea of the final price,  and they have an exact idea of how many they need to sell to make a profit.  But setting the actual price hasn't been finalized, and they wanted to make a splash at York.  It's that simple.

To get back to the original topic of this thread.   The "Real" reason I am buying one is because I want to.  it has nothing to do with legacy or tmcc, or whatever.

 

I like the new VL GG1.   That's all it comes down to for me.

Unless Lionel has finished all R&D, feature designs, had tooling made, and all suppliers selected, they don't know how much it is to produce it.  Being they said they are still working on things shows that this is not the case, so they don't have a finial cost yet.  It's makes sense 100% from a consumer product design and manufacturing standpoint.  Sure, they may have a ballpark figure, but only idiots disclose that number because 9 times out of 10 it'll end up being too low and thus bite them in the end.  Do I agree with them presenting the product and not telling a price, no, but like someone stated it seems Lionel wanted to get the word out and show it off for York.  I'm not a Lionel fanboy, although I do like their products.  I just happen to be a mechanical engineer in the consumer product design and manufacturing field, and it's totally irking me that people are bashing Lionel with no actual knowledge of how the system works.  Yes, you have a target price at the beginning of the project, but you cannot know the finial cost of production until you have signed off on the "gold master" production sample.  Then you need to calculate all the costs involved to get to that point, then they need a projection of unit sales with which they can amortize that cost over, and lastly add a profit margin.  Only then do you get a MSRP.

 

Lionel says that VL features can trickle down into the other product lines.  I'd totally love to see the sparking come to a LionMaster GG-1.  I have really disliked that Lionel replaced the LM level of locomotives with LC+.  If they took the LC+ locomotive and put the Legacy electronics in them and sold them for $100-$150 more MSRP (So less than $100 more street.) I would buy a lot more locomotives.  I've wanted some of the LC+ locomotives, but I won't touch them if I can't control them with my Cab handheld.  I hope the LM Challenger is successful enough that Lionel tries other locomotives in the LM line.

Hate to see anybody without a job these days.  So at least let him or her take a stab at managing the online shipping schedule.  

 

Here we are -- how many weeks after the website "revision"? -- and the shipping schedule still lists a bunch of those 18" aluminum passenger car roadnames that were supposedly cancelled.    Were they? Or weren't they?    

 

Still the same old misinformation.

 

Last I heard, there should only be FOUR roadnames scheduled for 18" aluminum production now... Pennsy, Southern Pacific, UP, and Milwaukee Road.  All the other roadnames were reportedly canceled. 

 

David

 

 

 

I do have lots of imagination! I play with trains!

 

Such as when I blow that really cool fake hooter whistle, to warn people that are not really there on my railroad.

 

I say bring on the sparks, just don't make it too expensive.

You forgot the most important component.  After everything you mentioned, then Lionel adds in another $500 "just because" it's Vision Line!   

 

David

This is exactly why Lionel made this product. There are people out there regardless of the price will buy it... and the price will reflect x amount of people buying it to balance out the improvements made and setting up the dies and getting it to market.

Regardless of the opinions here, there is a market for this product and it has a number.  There may only be 700 made... so the cost will be x to cover it plus profit.

 

Definitely it will not be the cash cow or home run of last year with the Berks and BigBoys at Christmas, but Lionel will make money on it.

 

Best to scratch this year off the list of a Vision Line Product I will purchase and move on.... now how much do I owe on the VLBB I have in lay-away...

If I buy one it will be old rivits, love the look of her, like a rivited monster engine. yep that will be the one if they are somewhat real with the price, if not no sale.

How realistic are the flashing LEDs on the pantographs on the GG-1? The railroads

must want to reduce the arcing to reduce repair costs on both wires and pantographs.

 

Not very realistic at all, since the contact shoe on the GG1 pantographs was a replaceable pieces of carbon. Plus, "sparking" was pretty rare, even at night, unless there winter weather was pretty bad, i.e. ice on the wire at which time the PRR would generally have both pantographs raised with the lead one being "dead" in order to knock any ice off without burning the contact shoes and wire.

As I mentioned in another thread, I thought the effect was cool.  It's certainly not the kind of feature that's gonna obsolete existing JLC GG1's by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a nice enhancement.

 

Actually, there's nothing about the Vision Line GG1 that will obsolete the JLC versions.  Somebody could argue that the IR sensor might.  But the price of JLC versions are so attractive now, there's no reason to even think of buying a VL GG1 unless you're drawn to a particular paint scheme offered (i.e., the bicentennial) and/or perhaps getting one with the rivet detail body instead of the welded body.

 

FWIW, if Lionel gets too greedy with the Vision Line GG1 pricing, the current JLC prices may see a boost on the secondary market.  Who knows?

 

David

 

 

And there you have it... so common to see two opposing thoughts on the same feature here on the forum.  No surprise at all.  Which means you get to decide if YOU like it or not through your own observations. 

Plus, as I look at the video, the "arcing" should be more towards the center of the pan (I know, the wire doesn't track at dead center continuously,) not the outside edges of the pan and certainly not both sides at once. 

 

The way the LEDs were flashing, it looked more like an ambulance coming down the track to me.

 

Rusty

The Retail price is gonna be 1599 you heard it here first ..So it's gonna be around 1450 street price. I am guessing this .I have no inside info but I am going off how Lionel has been pricing stuff lately .Regardless this is a pass for me the jlc ones are just fine and way cheeper.  At least when they do steamers you get neat features .. The LEDS looking like sparks does nothing for me sorry.

Bill,

 

Here are two. The first Scott Mann himself posted on this forum some six years ago and is of a production sample. The second was posted elsewhere and I think is someone's actual as delivered model.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. There are quite a few photos of the latter here: http://trainboard.com/highball...rd-rail.96592/#media

 

I notice that a number of details differ from the production sample/catalog/flyer photo although I've no idea why.

Love the extra "punch" of detail with the riveted models.  If Lionel comes through like that for the riveted bicentennial paint scheme, this may be tough to ignore. 

 

With that level of detail, I'm surprised Lionel didn't produce all 8 Vision Line models as riveted.

 

David

Well, there was only one riveted GG1...

 

Rusty

after listen to everyone if you are looking for a bright spot in this debate get the Amtrak one there will be very little made and like the penn central one it may be the most valuable

Did they ever paint old rivits in any other sheme then the first and the bicentanial. I would like a single stripe with the big keystone logo.

Because Sunset did two versions of the riveted GG1. The locomotive was originally numbered 4899 as shown in the photos. Some details such as class lights were changed on the prototype "Rivets" when it was numbered 4800 and Sunset captured these detail changes.