Here is the main reason why people are purchasing the new GG1...

Sunset/3rd Rail did both versions of the riveted body GG1 and, yes, there were two versions of the real "Rivets", an earlier and a later one. Same locomotive but it changed in appearance over the years and not just in the paint / lettering scheme.

 

I am not a 3 rail person, but I would think a primary reason some will buy this locomotive is that it comes in a blue and orange box ie brand loyalty.

 

I also don't believe the Lionel announcement will have a great impact on the Sunset / 3rd Rail announcement as many of the Sunset sales will be to 2 rail modelers.

My apologies David. I suppose using the word "whining" was incorrect. Of course it is okay to talk about why they haven't released a number for the cost. But at most what everyone is talking about is pure speculation. As that's all it can be at this point.

 

I just have a difficult time on OGR when forumites are rude to others. We all love this hobby. Keyword hobby. So this should be a place of fun and friends. Not a "I'm right, you're wrong" keyboard warrior vent forum. 

 

Just my 2 cents.

You were correct, David whines

That's fair, TrainingDave.  I just know gunrunnerjohn is a great guy, and was just responding to a comment stating the obvious.    Really... not too many of us here are gonna place orders without pricing being announced first.  

Now I'm never gonna list that UP flag hopper car for you.  Or if I do list it for sale some day, the price will be double for you. 

 

David

It's all fun and games til David teases me with the Flag hopper. If you make all that profit off the flag hopper will there be a drop in pricing complaints?

Electrics aren't my cup of tea but I hope those of you who are fans enjoy the new purchase should you choose to buy one.

 

--Greg

 

There is not a single manufacturer that "can do no wrong".  Every consumer has their own preference and some are more vocal(in terms of frequency) about stating negative opinions than others.  

 

I respect the detail and the attention to accuracy that 3rd Rail invests in their products. I had the ATSF Mountain, it was a stunning engine that was better suited to be a static display rather than an engine I cared to play with.  Its sounds were weak and its operating characteristics were horrible.  Lionel has the best sounds and the 200 speed steps swinging bells and smoking whistles enhance the play value for me.   I never grow tired of quilling the whistle or making the wheels slip on my VL Big Boy.

 

In a perfect world I would have a tetherless engine designed and produced by 3rd Rail with Lionel's state of the art electronics and features.  

 

To each their own.  It would be nice if we could all remember that when we state our negative opinions, however entitled you are to hold that belief,  we may be inadvertently disrespecting someone else's beliefs.  It does not matter how thick someone's skin is, constant poking will always be annoying.

The reason is simple "they" or "somebody" just wants to!

 

And others just don't.

 

Ron

My comment about the price would be announced before orders are open was in response to the

 

"You must think the buyers have oatmeal for brains if you think that is going to work.

 

Fire the guy who thought this roll out up"  

 

comment someone made.

 

That's what I just don't get. Why can't people simply say, "it would have been better if they had pricing information at the rollout" rather than go into keyboard attack mode over a hobby.

 

Yeah, I'd like to know price sooner than later so I know what to plan, but it sure would be nice if "We" would stop trying to chase the people from the companies away again like we did in the past.

That's why I wore my orange and blue check shirt to York this year (really I did)... so the Orange Kool-Aid would blend in a little better!!!    But it was all for naught, as we didn't bump into each other this time.

"But oh yes, I forgot, the Lionel-can-do-no-wrong crowd doesn't want to hear about that anyway"

 

Of course, it could be YOU who is wrong, no? Or is that not a possibility?

 

Instead of attributing all sorts of invidious motives to the lack of an announced price (which happens frequently in the automobile industry, the computer industry, etc.) why not just give them the benefit of the doubt that they haven't finalized that important point? 

 

If it's too high, people won't order.  If it's lower than expected, there will be celebrations in the streets.  Not a big deal one way or the other.  The price will be what it is when it is announced. 

 

Meanwhile, we should all not get too exercised about something so largely irrelevant and trivial to the announcement of the product.  We do know it will almost certainly be between $1,000 and $1,800 street price, which is a big range, but way out of range for many people. Everyone knows that, with some exceptions.  Not exactly the key thing in appreciating the aesthetics and innovation in the product, or not. 

 

If that makes me a member of the Lionel can do no wrong crowd, so be it.  Frankly I don't give a rat's posterior about the price or what anyone else thinks about me.  It doesn't affect my family, my job or my potential for longevity . Mostly I hope my point of view shows me to be a calm, thoughtful, sensible individual who finds joy in the hobby and doesn't rant and rave about stuff that just isn't significant in life.

Speaking of whiners....

It is a pathetic and shallow individual who cannot stand having anyone disagree with him. 

 

My main reason for not purchasing the new GG1 is that I have more trains than I need and I already have the Century Club 1 postwar remake.  But it sure looks pretty and has some cool functions.  For those who want and can afford it, Godspeed and enjoy.  And for sure don't let the glass two-thirds empty people who don't know how to criticize without being offensive get you down.  Just be happy you're not them .

 

Even a benign response like that would end up hurting someone's feelings on this forum and trigger defensive responses.

 

Like Dave alluded to earlier, some people are so epidermically-challenged that it's beyond ridicule.  Some people fail to distinguish between criticisms directed towards products or company practices and those directed to themselves.

John,

For me personally it is not a matter of having my feelings hurt.  I just get tired of the same negative observations (if I say complaints I may hurt someone's feelings) being stated over and over.  Its like Groundhog's Day around here.  Perpetually re-stating the same point of view does not advance the conversation but it does typically derails it.  My skin is plenty thick, but my patience for the same tired negative comments has worn thin.

I believe I posted to another thread that the purpose of a Forum is discussion. If I have an observation others perceive as a complaint, so be it.

Isn't complaining about complaining, still complaining?

I get tired of reading posts where folks tell me they don't want to read my observations if there is any negativity to it. I would remind these "reverse complainers" that the commentary on this Forum might also be used to improve the products, too. Just listen to the commentary if you are a manufacturer. There has been quite a lot of negative comment about the choice/pricing of this loco. Don't like reading it? Cool, don't read it.

 

I think the MSRP of the JLC version was $899.

Ithink we will double that to $1,799 with a street price of $1,440.

Sooooooooo, I will pretend to be Uncle Orange:

 

$1,440 ladies and gentlemen

 

 

David1,

 

    I was at York at both the presentation at the Lionel booth and the O gauge forum meeting on Friday. I also watched the TCA video of Lionel's presentation at the TCA museum. I never heard anyone mention "order today" or " hurry order now". At all the presentations they clearly stated the price will be in the 2016 Volume 1 catalog. You can order then. Were you at York?

   Me I am a Pennsy guy but I am not a electric engine fan. The new effects were very nice. The same rants about pricing, details etc were heard when Lionel presented the VL Big Boy. That too was introduced at the October 2013 meet no price at that time. But from what I have read most BB owners are more than happy with their BB. I am sure anyone who does order a VL GG1 will be more than happy with the finished product.

    Yes I do drink the Orange Kool Aid.

 

JohnB

This product will probably be the biggest bust in my opinion. I would rather spend the money that it would cost me to buy this on making my 2 1/2 scale Galloping Goose.

 

I think a lot of people are like that. But, the GG1 is such an unique/cool/odd/ornery looking locomotive (IMO) ...that its kinda hard not to have one. Even if it just sits there on the layout.

 

This "Madison Avenue marketing" scheme by Lionel has pushed me into finally getting a GG1, lol. As in all of my engines, I want the best running/sounding version.

 

As long as it's not too crazy expensive, I'm in. I'll be looking to sell some stuff to be able to afford it.

I am quite fond of GG-1's, but I prefer traditional sized ones like the postwar Lionel 2360. I have several, including postwar, Modern era, MTH and Williams.
Its my impression that these scale sized GG-1's are not going to run around a 031 curve.
I don't think I'd buy one, still I wonder whether there would be a market for a traditional sized GG-1 with all the bells and whistles (and sparking pantographs).

Actually the Centipedes were a larger bust than the GG-1 will every be. The Pennsylvania RR is iconic and the GG-1's were their main staple on the east cost. With the Build To Order mandate Lionel should manage pretty well.

I'm just bummed they did not make the Penn Central version.... 

I'm the same way CW, I am surprised Lionel has not made a traditional size Legacy GG-1 for smaller layouts, even a Lionmaster GG-1 would be nice.

 

Art

Interesting thread. Has gone the way of so many here on the OGR Forum.

 

Best of luck to those that decide to order "old sparky." Hope it's a winner.

 

Me? Still waiting to get my hands on that really nice PW 2360. 

I have no GG-1's on my layout, but if a decent street price ($900 to $1200) becomes reality, a 4899 rivet with art deco PRR blocking would be nice. With eight different models being made available, pricing, I hope, will be reasonable. If not, then the boys at Lionel are inhaling too much NASCAR exhaust.

 

enjoy your trains...

 

 

Thank goodness SOMEBODY out their "gets it".  Actually I know a LOT of folks here do.  It's just the vocal minority -- have you noticed it's the same few posters -- that always feel the need to race to Lionel's defense on anything... whatever... whenever.  (Not that there's anything wrong with that, as they're entitled to their opinions too.  It's OK to agree to disagree on something.)

 

Newflash... the folks at Lionel are big boys (and girls).  They can handle our commentaries just fine.  That's why they get paid the big bucks!

 

David

 

P.S.  BTW Eliot, I think you're pretty much right on WRT the MSRP and street-price.  Just look at the FEF-3's pricing, and that wasn't even Vision Line... nor was it an articulated steamer -- just a plain ole handsome 4-8-4 at $1700 MSRP and $1400 street price (give or take).    I'd really like one of these bicentennial GG-1's, but hopefully not at close to $1K more than I payed for my JLC GG1's this year.   That would be hard to cost-justify even if I did some dollar-cost-averaging. 

I think that the $1700 MSRP is conservative, im guessing we wont see less that $1500 street price

I love Lionel but announcing a VL GG1 without having the price ready to announce is not the way it should be done. Not having the price ready will not increase sales but lead to less sales. There are many items to consider from MTH and Lionel but only so much money will be available and maybe by the time Lionel announces the price of the gg1 I may have already decided to go to another product. 

 

Lionel already knows the price of producing the gg1 so figuring out the msrp should not be that hard. 

 

Btw I was at York for my 62nd straight time and had many talks Thursday and Friday with both Lionel and MTH. 

My crystal ball isn't so clear these days so I have no idea what Lionel will charge for the GG1.

 

But it is still clear enough to tell me that regardless of price there will be plenty of threads complaining about it!

Sure glad I got the K-Line version before they went bust.   

 

I got the JLC version, Single stripe with Keystone, think i paid $425

I don't care what the new GG 1 will do or cost. I have my PW  2340, Tuscan, runs like a dream and cost me lees than $200 in very good shape. Love the GGs so I hope it is a good one.

For this Vision Line offering, I don't care what the price is.  I'm finally going to be able to get a scale Legacy Penn Central 'Black Jack' GG1 that I've been waiting years for them……..

 

Wait, what?

 

Ohhhh, Lionel is not making it.  I begged and pleaded with Lionel personnel at York and was told 'maybe next time we do a GG1', and sent away like a common peasant. (just kidding) Well maybe MTH….. nah, they said no too back at April's York Meet.

 

Absolutely a ghastly travesty !!    

Let me first say it looks cool and some nice touches and features on this one and thankfully it is too big for my layout and will exceed my personal budget limit. I am not sure why everyone is so grumpy about this? There are certainly many passionate enthusiasts out there with lots of opinions.

 

I have now come to the conclusion that such polar opinions are normal for this hobby and for those following any manufacturer these days in this hobby. The bashing that some seem to like to engage is similar to what I here in owning a 5th generation Camaro that is a base model V6. I have had a lot of people freely interject their opinion that it is not a real Camaro. When they do I suggest that if they want me to drive something different they can buy it for me and pay the additional costs to own and run and I will be happy to drive it. I think the same can be said for some of these trains. I apply a similar philosophy to my train hobby. Since I have made my decision to stick to smaller scale items that run on O36 or less along with semi-scale and tinplate I find no shortage of things to buy even when I have a limited budget.

 

I am glad that Lionel does do these since years from now I will see these features trickle down into something I can run and afford. I have spent a good amount on Legacy locomotives, but anything north of about $650 really stretches what my conscious will let me spend. 

 

Funny that I bought a K-Line GG1 TMCC equipped at our club auction this last weekend for $70. It needs 2 powered truck side frames that I have already ordered replacements. This is my vision.

David1,

 

   Lionel is following exactly the same method that was used on the VL BB. Don't forget there they had produced a Legacy version of the BB only 7 years prior and still introduced it without telling us the price until it was in the catalog.

   You can think of this as they really don't know yet and want to give you time to think "what is my limit" which by the way I have already done. Or you can think they are being sneeky seeing what our limits are by reading this thread and other recent threads. I kept my limit to myself unlike others who posted their limits. When they put it in the catalog I will make my final desision until then all I can say is it was a really nice engine and is on my maybe list.

   When I play poker I do not show my cards a lot of forum members already have their cards on the table.

 

JohnB

I'm sure they have a pretty good idea on the cost.  I imagine there are still some details to work out that might affect it but for the most part I suspect they have a ball park figure if not the actual cost.

 

The good news is, no one is making you plunk any $$ down now so when they announce the cost you can make your decision then.

 

While many have their opinions good, bad, or indifferent at least it's entertaining to read. 

Anyone have a picture of the 3rd rail riveted GG1?

LOL, nailed it John. I would guess that a price has been determined but will be adjusted up or down depending on the amount of drooling.

 

  Bill T.

"LOL, nailed it John. I would guess that a price has been determined but will be adjusted up or down depending on the amount of drooling."

 

Surely you jest?  And just how would Lionel come up with any quantitative and meaningful determination of the amount of spit being expressed over this product? 

 

It's clear none of the marketing geniuses here have any personal knowledge of the kind of people now running Lionel.  This is not the sort of lame, clueless thinking that these people would engage in.  I'm absolutely certain of that.