How did steam locomotive engineers control their engines in double-head and triple-heading duty?

By the seat of the pants, paying attention to what's going on with the lead locomotive and feeling the slack.

And only the lead locomotive controls the train brake.

Rusty

First, only the lead (front) locomotive controls the air brakes for the train.

Second, remember that back in the days of steam, each and every Engineer & Fireman were completely familiar with the territory that they operated over, darned near every day. Thus, they REALLY knew what to do and where to do it. Generally, the rear locomotives or two behind the front locomotive were operated at full throttle when required on the grade, while the lead Engineer could vary his throttle as required to maintain the safe speed limit.

Third, the lead Engineer could blow whistle signals, to tell the rear of train pusher/helper, if equipped, when to begin pushing.

Before radios, it must have been tricky if a long train with mid-train or end-of-train helpers stalled in mountains with tunnels, where whistle signals might not carry very far (thinking SP Sierras-Siskiyous-Cascades). If they had problems on the rear end or midtrain I suppose they would resort to dumping the air as a "signal". Then someone would have to do some walking for a "conference".

Watch some old videos of the Colorado  narrow gauge engines running up and down on those hills  !!  Plus, the old timers probably knew what they were doing.

Good evening Paul, I believe on the video Steam on the Horseshoe curve Part 1 ( Sunday River Productions)

There is a segment where there is a empty string of coal hoppers stopped and the front engine is whistling to the snappers.

It was filmed from the head end and you can hear that Pennsy Banshee whistle just screaming. The train is along a river so I am guessing the maybe around Denholm PA.

After the whistle signals are finished you hear the slack come out of the train and the train was on the move.

I agree with you, these Engineers, Fireman and Brakeman had to know what they where doing to keep everything all together.

It is truly fascinating !!!!!!!

When the engine crews were given their assignments for their shift - was it the engineer's - or maybe conductor's job - to calculate the weight of the consist (x number of cars x tare weight + load weight) and then select the type of locomotive that could handle the consist? I am thinking these calculations were probably done at the office or yardmaster level - and then it was their responsibility to figure out how many engines would be needed to take a given consist over the division points, factoring ruling grade, wet weather, etc. and then the information was then given to engine crews?

I am thinking that even back in steam era times efficiency of operations was needed - and I could see where the calculations of moving tonnage from point a to point b to point c is not as simple as we toy train guys think.

Getting into real railroading is interesting - and trying to mimic it as much as possible on my layout could be an added element of fun. Although, it is very hard to conduct prototypical operations on model railroads - realistic grades are hard to incorporate, consist loads are very light, and electronic speed control systems are based on control-simulation rather than control-operation.

Paul Kallus posted:

When the engine crews were given their assignments for their shift - was it the engineer's - or maybe conductor's job - to calculate the weight of the consist (x number of cars x tare weight + load weight) and then select the type of locomotive that could handle the consist?

The operating crew had nothing to do with motive selection vs. train assignment.

I am thinking these calculations were probably done at the office or yardmaster level - and then it was their responsibility to figure out how many engines would be needed to take a given consist over the division points, factoring ruling grade, wet weather, etc. and then the information was then given to engine crews?

Yes, the Yardmaster and the Motive Power Dept. pretty much selected motive power based on the division/grade tonnage calculations laid out in the Employee Timetables. For example, a westbound train of "standard tonnage" dispatched out of Cheyenne on the UP prior to 1952, required doubleheaded articulated locomotive, in order to ascend Sherman Hill. The same train dispatched eastbound, would generally require only one locomotive.

I am thinking that even back in steam era times efficiency of operations was needed - and I could see where the calculations of moving tonnage from point a to point b to point c is not as simple as we toy train guys think.

Bingo!

Getting into real railroading is interesting - and trying to mimic it as much as possible on my layout could be an added element of fun.

Mark:

The segment of video you mention was filmed at Longfellow, PA, about 7 miles west of Lewistown.  The river in the background is the Juniata.  My grandparents had a cottage not far from this location.

In the video, the engineer is actually calling in the head brakeman who would have walked ahead of the train to protect it. There were standpipes between the numbers 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 tracks at this location.  When a train was stopped taking water, the head brakeman would walk ahead of the train to flag.  When the train was ready to depart, the engineer would call the head brakeman back using the proper whistle signal.  As I recollect, it was five longs and a short.

Curt

Hot Water: that's good information. Ya know, I just made the connection that you are the same guy I saw on OGR's video, LOL, and that you use to work for UP. Very nice layout you have, btw.

I am thinking RR's must have had tables of tractive effort of different classes of engines vs. load weights, with correlated graphs of grades? For example, if a Decapod has a tractive effort of 100,000 lbs - does that mean it can pull that much weight ~ probably on level track? If there is a grade of 0.5% - then that Decapod's tractive effort would be reduced by some amount - and this was probably listed in a table that the office engineers compiled. Or, how does this work?

Paul, 

Thanks but, I didn't "used to work for UP". I worked for EMD (June 1962 through December 1998) but was a Contract Fireman for the UP Steam Crew, for about 17 years (I 'retired' from the UP Steam Crew when Steve Lee retired at the end of 2010).

Thanks Curt for the info.

I have not sat and watched this video for some time but remember this as an neat piece of video for it's time.

Got to love that Pennsy Banshee whistle.

Paul, I tried doing this whistling one time with a Lashup of MTH Pennsy steam engines.

Sounded cool until I tried to go back into Lashup and pull out. Not sure what I did wrong but I had a bit of a mess and had to go back to the drawing board setting up the Lashup.

Of course when this occurred I had a few people over to watch the trains.

Never fails !!!!!!

Happy Easter !!!!!!!

Hi Paul    You're pretty close.

AS HW has pointed out the yard master 's yard crew make up the train  and the outgoing mail line conductor  would get a copy of the  train  call a journal.   This would have  all the cars numbers, contents,destination. and  any special handling  (dangerous , wide load) The tonnage shown would be what we called lite tons. .  He would also get a list of  the engines for the trip  (power). 

In a large terminal , there  may be different subdivisions that the train could go, the Conductors job was to figure out if the power given  could handle the  train.. You would be surprised how fine a line the Yardmaster could get when figuring out tonnage. Seems they were  always close to the limit,sometimes over. .

All the subs were shown in the employees time card along with the car factor and tonnage that a engine could haul over the controlling grade on that sub or part of a sub.  The Conductor also kept track of the tonnage if setting out or lifting cars so he knew how long and the exact tonnage of the train  at any time.

He also kept track of the pay ticket for himself and other brakeman. We got paid by the mile so  we liked to get over the road as quickly as possible.   ( not making any money sitting in a siding or doubling hills-- very time consuming)

Paul Kallus posted:

I am thinking RR's must have had tables of tractive effort of different classes of engines vs. load weights, with correlated graphs of grades? For example, if a Decapod has a tractive effort of 100,000 lbs - does that mean it can pull that much weight ~ probably on level track? If there is a grade of 0.5% - then that Decapod's tractive effort would be reduced by some amount - and this was probably listed in a table that the office engineers compiled. Or, how does this work?

Paul,
Each District's employee timetable will have a list of each type (or group) of engines and the maximum tonnage that type of engine can handle over that district. That is, the maximum tonnage allowed for the ruling grade (steepest). Tonnage ratings will also be given for intermediate points in the case where locals or shifters operate in turnaround service.

By using this list of tonnage ratings, the yardmaster will know how heavy he can build a train and the locomotive dispatch foreman can select the engines needed for that train from what is available to him at the time.

Keep in mind that there is a limit to the total number of powered axles that may be used in order to prevent damage to the equipment.