Install scale driver and truck wheels on a Lionel Legacy??

Meadmaker posted:

Have any of you gentlemen either contemplated or actually performed a swap of the high rail driver and truck wheels on the Lionel steam locomotives, such as the big boy, with scale drivers and trucks?  I have been buying these legacy and vision line models but would like to consider swapping out those high rail wheel sets with scale wheels.  Having an abundance of room, as the layout is being built in a large empty barn, I am planning at 84"-100"+ radii.

If you have accomplished this task in the past, can you recommend replacement wheels and provide any good pointers for the process?  Thank you in advance for your input.

In my opinion, you would be much better off to send your model/models to Baldwin Forge & Machine, and have Joe convert it to 2-Rail operation.

Thank you.

I had thought of complete conversion, however, I do not wish to lose some of the great functionality that the vision line big boy comes with. I am under the impression that these conversions result in loss of some of these functions.  Am I mistaken in this?

I have no issue with the middle rail, I was just wanting to change out the look of the hi rail wheel flanges.

I concentrate more on scenery, structures, weathering and details as my primary interest.  For me and the grandkids, the realistic functions of these vision line and legacy locomotives is very enjoyable for them to operate and watch.  They love the synchronized smoke, steam whistles, blowdown etc.  It really captures their imagination and they remain glued to the train operation.

So given their greatly heightened interest in the functions of the locomotive, I certainly don't mind the middle rail.

They don't seem as "jazzed" about the On30 set up, without all the animation.

The change out the wheel sets was more just for my own personal preference of the overall appearance of the locomotives.  I would still like to swap those out, if anyone has experience with this, I would greatly appreciate your input.

I am dismantling the layout and moving everything to the barn as soon as I complete improvements on the building for climate control and power service.

Meadmaker posted:

Thank you.

I had thought of complete conversion, however, I do not wish to lose some of the great functionality that the vision line big boy comes with. I am under the impression that these conversions result in loss of some of these functions.  Am I mistaken in this?

I have no issue with the middle rail, I was just wanting to change out the look of the hi rail wheel flanges.

 

Then you could have Joe just convert the wheels to 2-Rail SCALE, but still leave the model/models 3-Rail electrically, and thus retain all the "features".

Very interesting ideas. When the conversion is made to scale wheels are any alterations needed to the locomotives that might result from interference with the scale wheels? I wonder why Lionel failed to put scale wheels on the pilot or rear trucks in the first place?

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Very interesting ideas. When the conversion is made to scale wheels are any alterations needed to the locomotives that might result from interference with the scale wheels? I wonder why Lionel failed to put scale wheels on the pilot or rear trucks in the first place?

Probably because SCALE wheels on the engine truck trucks and/or trailing trucks will generally derail through many brands on 3-Rail turnouts.

I have converted several K-Line steamers, a 763 and the pre-war B6 and an MTH Hudson.  But to directly answer your question, I just converted a Lionel FEF using a Lobaugh frame, USH drivers, and special cast side rods.  Everything else, including the cylinder block, pilot, main rods, valve gear, are all original Lionel.  It looks great!  I have. 4-12-2, but it remains in the box - not sure I like the sand dome.

I removed and sold all the Legacy stuff - it took up way too much room, and I think a nice Tsunami sound system would be adequate.

Joe does great work, and that is an option.  You could easily use the Lionel gears, motor, and electronics as above by running your 2-rail layout on AC.

It is not at all clear that you could make polarity standard.  My MTH Hudson needed non- standard polarity due to some internal grounding I never spotted.  It, of course, works on either AC or DC.  If you convert MTH, be aware that MTH cylinders are seriously undersize.  Now, if I could only get a "factory reset."

all of my 3rail steam received scale NWSL .145 engine truck and trailing trucks wheels of appropriate size. Do that and the drivers will no longer be noticeable, especially if you blacken the rims. The .145 NWSL wheels will track through most 3 rail turnouts with a true T rail cross section. You may have to modify the points on some turnouts .

 Notice these Hudsons engine truck wheels roaring a long on 3 rail.

Here are pictures of other locos with scale engine truck wheels . You will need a wheel puller from NWSL and perhaps a cheap arbor press.

Those look really nice.

Thank you for the advice.  How much of a to-do was changing out those wheels yourself?  Not adverse to the work, just wondering what I was in for in the undertaking.  So many tasks to moving and expanding the layout, just wondered how much time it was going to chew up.

Trying to balance effort hours with return on effort.  As I am much better (faster) with the scenic and structures, was curious if you could recall the effort hours you put in to changing those out?  I have the big boy, 2 berkshires, 2 mikados, 2 shays, 1 sturbridge lion, 1 DeWitt Clinton, 2 Challengers, 1 Y6B, (2) 4-4-0, (2) 4-6-0.

Apologies, the effort hour question was directed to Bob2.  Should have been specific.

Ron H.: Those look very nice.

Meadmaker posted:

Apologies, the effort hour question was directed to Bob2.  Should have been specific.

I don't believe that Bob2 "changes" the wheels. If I'm not mistaken, he machines the wheel sets himself, in order to eliminate the big flanges and then re-gauges the wheels for proper operation on 2-Rail track.

You're better off to let Joe do it.  Lots of reasons...

I also swap out the 3R sets for NWSL.  Like Ron said, swap out the lead trucks and do some paint work on the drivers.  You may find it adequate, I did for 3R.  Makes a huge difference.  What track are you running?  How well is your track laid?  If it's not perfect, scale wheel flanges will find it on every pass...Matt posted a youtube video of an MTH Big Boy with scale wheels (flanges and all) on 3R tracks.  You may want to take a look.

If your running 100" RADIUS, wheel interference won't be a factor.  I've ran on 70" radius with BBs and no problem.

Seems like a lot of effort but I understand your situation. 

My recollection: generally trailing trucks and tender trucks are screwdriver deals.

Lead trucks generally require re-drilling and pressing operations.  It is so easy that I have been known to do them in exchange for 2-rail trinkets and postage.

86TA355SR posted:

What track are you running?  How well is your track laid?  If it's not perfect, scale wheel flanges will find it on every pass...Matt posted a youtube video of an MTH Big Boy with scale wheels (flanges and all) on 3R tracks.  You may want to take a look.

Thank you.

As everything is dismantled and the new one will be considerably larger, track will start from scratch.  Will be using flex track and some pre-made turn outs, others will be Fast Tracks turnouts ( i am aware those are made for 2R turnouts).  Have not yet decided on the brand of trackage.  Sold off the previous sectional track to a local club.

Going with spline design track support structure for all the obvious benefit reasons. 

bob2 posted:

My recollection: generally trailing trucks and tender trucks are screwdriver deals.

Lead trucks generally require re-drilling and pressing operations.  It is so easy that I have been known to do them in exchange for 2-rail trinkets and postage.

Thank you Bob2.

I will keep that in the front of my mind. 

M-M,

Joe's (Baldwin) work involves replacing the 3r treads with 2 rail treads.  Baldwin has done scores of Lionel engines.  His work is exceptional and reasonable.  I have a few of his conversions and am very satisfied. Plus he is a very decent person to work with.

On the curvature.  With a fresh start in a barn running Big Boys   you my want to reconsider the size of your curves.  Minimum curvatures used by many 2 railers is about 60" radius or  0-120.  IMO, that is where larger articulated engines start looking somewhat comfortable. 

Many 2 railers use 72",  a full 6' radius  (0-144).  Some of the best looking 0 scale RRs in large quarters going around the wall use 84" or 0-168.  A 7' radius curve really helps keep the boiler overhang somewhat reasonable.  Yes, I really do not like toy train overhang.

These curvature comments are very subjective.  Best considered after viewing large engine operation on wide curves.  With a barn format it would be  shame IMO to run tight curves.

What about the possibilities of purchasing a 2 rail Sunset late Big Boy and adding the Lionel control?   Has to cost less,  no casting snap offs and never a worry about zink rot with "forever brass".  Juss thinkin'.

Thank you for the input.  I will certainly factor that into the design.  Goal is to avoid toy train overhang.  Also having a good number of smaller locomotives and lots of room to work with, the large articulated locos will have their own dedicated mainlines (2).

Plan to use the largest possible radius for those.  That is the reason for flex track and hand made turnouts.  Having decided to avoid sectional track, I am no longer to limited to those offered radii. 

Inspired by Tom Miller and the Sundance Central Fine Scale gents, I look forward to the project.  Received a lot of great ideas from their videos (yes, that is a shameless plug).

Again my primary focus is on the scenery, scenic details, structures and weathering.  I am also going to be integrating scenic animations.  It is the wonderful effects of the Vision Line, Legacy and MTH Premire locomotives that will only add to the "goings-on" on the layout.

Too bad that Lionel does not at least offer the 2/3 option on some of the Legacy offerings and on all of their Vision Line locos.  Wouldn't imagine that that would ding those sticker prices too much, MTH does it.

That would be the best of everything.  But that is ok, I can certainly live with a center rail as a trade off.

The grandkids certainly don't care.  SO I am splitting the difference between what gets them excited and what I would I really want.

Life is about balance.  No worries.