Installing Ditch Lights on the ERR AC Command board

ERR sells the Sound Converter for $24.95, it's primary purpose is to allow the use of conventional horn/bell boards with command control.  However, another "feature" is two outputs for ditch LED lights on the 6-pin connector, they are triggered using serial data from the R2LC.

If you are doing a DC motored unit, what I do is use the R2LC and ERR Cruise Commander M combination, the CC-M has ditch light outputs.

Lionel actually released the Sound Converter design and the code, it's posted in the TMCC Documentation thread.  Here's a Link to the post: https://ogrforum.com/t...43#48593297326356943

gunrunnerjohn posted:

ERR sells the Sound Converter for $24.95, it's primary purpose is to allow the use of conventional horn/bell boards with command control.  However, another "feature" is two outputs for ditch LED lights on the 6-pin connector, they are triggered using serial data from the R2LC.

If you are doing a DC motored unit, what I do is use the R2LC and ERR Cruise Commander M combination, the CC-M has ditch light outputs.

Lionel actually released the Sound Converter design and the code, it's posted in the TMCC Documentation thread.  Here's a Link to the post: https://ogrforum.com/t...43#48593297326356943

John since I am using an AC motored unit and there is currently no sound board in the locomotive I was going to add both the AC commander and the RailSounds Commander boards.  If I want the ditch lights do I put the sound converter between the AC commander and the RailSounds commander as shown in the link PDF?

You just parallel the serial data to the RS Commander and the Sound Converter, you don't put it between them.  You're not using the connection shown as you are going to have a command capable sound board.  We're using two of the LED outputs on the 6-pin connector on the Sound Converter board.

John, thanks!  When I get to that point I will need some more specifics as to how to hook it all up but that does help significantly.

Paul

Here's a quick demo of the Sound Converter Ditch Light capability wired to a TMCC test board.

Here's the connections to the LED's from the 6-pin connection, you can just follow the colors.  The yellow (pin-1) and blue (pin-5) are the positive side of the two ditch lights, the black is the negative, it's on pins 2, 4, and 6.  The 3rd LED (pin-3) is actually programmed for a soft on/off with the smoke control AUX1 8/9, it was intended to be a cab light.

John, documentation on the ERR site for the Sound Convertor is sketchy. What command triggers the ditch lights flashing? Is it one of the light functions, ie rear light-front light or the horn? Can it somehow be triggered by something else like the bell? 

Pete

In the software posted in the above reference, the horn serial command triggers the ditch light function, most likely what you'd want in command mode.  If you look at my video, you'll see that when I honked the horn, the ditch lights flashed.  I was using the CAB1 to control the test board.

The documentation is pretty limited, I was in a small group that was brainstorming this thing and Jon Z. put it together in an amazingly short time, pretty cool.  I obviously got more information about the internals in our discussions.  This project was actually the thing that pushed me over the edge and I left the Arduino for the Microchip PIC for my designs.  It works out much better as I can build much smaller stuff with the PIC.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Here's a quick demo of the Sound Converter Ditch Light capability wired to a TMCC test board.

Here's the connections to the LED's from the 6-pin connection, you can just follow the colors.  The yellow (pin-1) and blue (pin-5) are the positive side of the two ditch lights, the black is the negative, it's on pins 2, 4, and 6.  The 3rd LED (pin-3) is actually programmed for a soft on/off with the smoke control AUX1 8/9, it was intended to be a cab light.

Thanks John!  That's a big help!

John; installed ERR Crz Cmdr, ERR Railsounds, and  ERR sound converter for ditch lights; flash only when stationary, not when moving; tried another sound converter and no change.  Reset to diesel  on the R2LC but no change; any ideas?  Positive it is an installation error (always is) on my part; thanks for the time; Falcon70

I just tried one on my test rig... it does the same thing!  I'll have to look at the code and see if I can figure out why that happens!

Thanks much; appreciate the help; Falcon70

OhB1 posted:

So I am finally getting around to this project on my Seaboard Switcher.  One question that I cannot find a clear answer on is around ditch lights.  If I install the AC commander board and the sound board do I add an additional board so I can have ditch lights that work with the sounds or is there a hookup on one of the boards that already does this?  If there is a hookup what are the specific pins that I need to hook up to?  I found a thread a while ago about someone that had a board built by someone but there are no details around the board.

ditch light circuit for tmcc -------- prototypical flash "dim to bright" SOLD SOLD

Maybe I missed it but did anyone ask if you are installing a smoke unit? If not you don't need any extra boards. Just wire the ditch lights to the feature pin on the AC Commander. Program the engine with Aux1 6 after programing the engine ID and the ditch lights can be turned on using the Aux1 9 command, Aux1 8 turns them off. If you are using incandescent bulbs you are done. If LEDs then you need to add a diode and resistor to the LEDs.

Pete

Pete, that doesn't solve the problem of making them flash with the horn, which is the object of the exercise.

OK let me bore you with a few tems that may be of interest.

First off I get the idea that these are toy trains and you can do whatever you what on your fictional railroad.

The majority of NW2s were built before 1949. As such they are not required to have ditch lights. 

Unless there is a restored Seaboard NW2 in those colors its doubtful it has ditch lights. When they were new they didn't have ditch lights.

Ditch lights are on all the time unless triggered by the horn or maybe by the engineer at startup.

Admittedly, triggering by the horn is not easy with what we have to work with.

You can use a 555 timer to switch between steady on and alternate flashing triggered by the Aux1 9 Aux1 8 commands. I have done this on Williams P42s.  Not exactly prototypical but then nothing about ditch lights on a Seaboard switcher is.

Pete 

Well, you're right, you're boring me.   We're discussing automated ditch lights with a canned solution and you're talking about wiring up chips and fooling around with extra button pushes.

As long as that works for you, go for it.   I prefer to simply fix the code that's in the Sound Converter (which it released under the GNU General Public License (GPL).  I have the ditch lights working properly here with a couple of code hacks.  Leaving them on all the time and flashing automatically with the horn is a few lines of code.

Falcon70 posted:

Thanks much; appreciate the help; Falcon70

I hacked the code to have the ditch lights always on when moving, off when stopped.  Of course, they also flash with the horn, the object of the exercise.

I've attached the source files in case someone wants to rebuild this.  It is compiled with MicroChip MPLAB X IDE v3.61 and the latest 8 bit compiler files.  I use the MPLAB ICD 3 to cook them, but you can also use the PICKIT 3.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, you're right, you're boring me.   We're discussing automated ditch lights with a canned solution and you're talking about wiring up chips and fooling around with extra button pushed.

Good to know you are bored John. The feeling is and has been mutual. The we you are referring to must be you and your mouse.

You missed it as always but I was addressing the OP. What made you think I was replying to you? You have  long ago become insufferable with your constant pedantic replies. 

Continue to post solutions that require an engineer to implement. I will continue to post those I believe an average train hobbiest can.

Pete

GRJ....I also want ditch lights on when loco is moving and/or horn is sounded. I have a new unopened sound converter. I'll email Ken at ERR and see if he will use your code version and reload it. Any problem with me sending him your zip file?

Richard

No problem at all Richard, that's why I posted it.  If he won't do it, I'll cook it for you.  The good news is, it won't take an engineer to get the lights working.

Thanks John I'll see if ERR will do the reload. BTW thanks for touching up the code and your offer.

Richard

John, thanks much for the code attachment; take care; Falcon70

Let me know if you need to code loaded.

John, I sure do; will send them to you; thanks so much; Falcon70

Norton posted:

Continue to post solutions that require an engineer to implement. I will continue to post those I believe an average train hobbiest can.

All I can say is WOW, switch to decaf.

Pete the whole exercise for me was to learn different applications.  I'm not sure that I was interested in the beginning to be true to this train because I already installed the commander board.   As a mechanical engineer, I am amazed at what GRJ comes up with.  

While I appreciate the fact that some may want to be true to the actual, I really want my trains to be able to amaze and inspire my grandson and future grandkids to get involved in the hobby.  Anything I can do to make it easier for them I will do. Eventually, my hope is that they will want to learn how I did what I did.  Thus accomplishing what my goal is. 

Thanks GRJ for the update as this will help me when I am ready to implement. 

Richard thanks for at least attempting to get ERR to load the fix. Hopefully they will do it. 

Not to muddy the already mirkee water.  These LED's were added, powered off track power and probably, (foggy head), a 900 ohm resistor in line with the two diodes paralleled.  I called Atlas before I added this feature. At the time, TAS, Train America Studio, EOB board upgrades did not have provisions for some of the interesting features that were designed into the SAW GenII (2) boards.  (Wires left, with no where to connect)  Nothing fancy, no flashing but well lit.

Mike, I think we now have a working solution with the Sound Converter, it just needed a couple of code tweaks.  Here's a short video of the modified unit on my TMCC test set.  Ditch lights off when stopped, on when moving, and flashing with the horn.

OhB1 posted:

Pete the whole exercise for me was to learn different applications.  I'm not sure that I was interested in the beginning to be true to this train because I already installed the commander board.   As a mechanical engineer, I am amazed at what GRJ comes up with.  

While I appreciate the fact that some may want to be true to the actual, I really want my trains to be able to amaze and inspire my grandson and future grandkids to get involved in the hobby.  Anything I can do to make it easier for them I will do. Eventually, my hope is that they will want to learn how I did what I did.  Thus accomplishing what my goal is. 

Thanks GRJ for the update as this will help me when I am ready to implement. 

Richard thanks for at least attempting to get ERR to load the fix. Hopefully they will do it. 

Mechanical Enginneer - cool just what we need. Redesign the pot bracket for the zwc transformer that preceded the zw-l. This is the bracket that hold the pots and attaches to the bracket Lionel previous redid.

John..Sent you an email on your gmail account

Richard

Richard, I'm guessing you won't be the only one.  I confess, I had tried this on the bench, but didn't think to check it while the locomotive was moving vs stopped.  While I was in there fixing that little bug, I changed it to always have them on and flash with the horn, that's typically what I see in real life for the 1:1 railroads.

John, on a different note, used the K Line cruise reset PDF you posted on the TMCC forum; could not get my K Line cruise diesel to move in conventional; used the good info on that file and it worked like a charm!  Thanks to all the other folks for sharing the knowledge; Falcon70

The K-Line cruise tends to be somewhat temperamental, and there are multiple versions of the board, they don't all react the same.  I just try to gather as much information as I can and hopefully have enough to get this kind of issue into submission.  Glad you found it useful.

Is there a way to flash ditch lites running Conventional by pressing horn button? Perhaps a board that simply closes a set of contacts when horn is pressed? i have a MTH Premeir bi level Bombardier cab car and the switch inside selects headlight, marker and ditch, theres room to add a board, and everything else is already there