Internal ZW/VW transformer grounding location?

Drill a hole in the metal frame around the transformer core, and attach the ground wire to it.

Lionel's postwar transformers were not designed for a building ground connection.  The good condition internal circuit breakers do a good job protecting the transformers.

To be technically correct, use a minimum sized 16 gauge 2 wire lamp cord with a non polarized plug for easy phasing.

A ZW is essentially double insulated. Just like many plastic covered tools with two wire cords you don't need a ground. Grounding to the core is not a good idea. If you have ground fault circuits it will trip the breaker.

Pete

Susan is 100% correct! Do NOT  use a grounded plug or a polarized plug! If you do, and you need to phase multiple transformers, you will be unable to do so.

Chris

LVHR

The UL Standard for toy transformers does not allow for grounded line cords.  All exposed metal parts on a transformer are supposed to be "dead metal parts".  This is tested by a dielectric strength test.  Should the base be grounded and an internal failure allows line voltage to leak at the terminals you can have a lethal voltage differential.  Hence the dielectric strength test.

When I did the RoW transformer I followed the UL Standard for sporting goods transformers which allows for a 3 wire plug and outputs greater than 190W.  It also passed the dielectric strength test.  

Just for fun one night we hooked up a ZW to the strength tester and it failed.  Tying the inputs together and the outputs together, you apply 1000V + 2 x the highest rated [input] voltage for 1 minute to the grouped inputs and the grouped outputs.  The ZW broke down (failed) at 600V.  It should have held at 1240V.

Once again, more than you need to know.

Lou N

What is a VW transformer ?  

Was the VW transformer made by Volks Wagen ?

@CBQ_Bill posted:

What is a VW transformer ?  

Was the VW transformer made by Volks Wagen ?

A VW looks like a ZW, but has lower power capability.

Same for a V vs. a Z.

There is a good list with many descriptions and pictures here.

-Dave

Thanks everyone for your help.  I have went and used a high amp 2 conductor power cable for my VW.  

However I still need to order parts.  Where is the best or easiest way to order parts.  I have two cosmetic parts I need to replace.  The silver ring on the port side is missing in the unit I have below is the most important part and I also want to replace or cover the badly worn L logo medallion on the top of my unit. 

So I want to order that ring, the diodes, and anything else useful for upgrades in the unit.   I actually have one of those dual 180 watt brick and modern ZW units new in box but I really don't want to dig out all that stuff just to setup a living room loop.  This VW would be perfect for my living room setup bu t I do want it upgraded so I can use it with modern stuff.   

On top of that i just LOVE that the VW I have is from 1948.  I was born in 1967 so this unit was just about 20 years old when I was born.  its 72 years old now.   I also got a really nice Santa Fe 2343/2343c/2344 F3 ABA set that actually is in surprisingly good shape, well used but still bright and fun looking.   According to a website, its the set from 1950-51.  The rollers on the powered unit do need replacing though.  

@Dave45681 posted:

A VW looks like a ZW, but has lower power capability.

Same for a V vs. a Z.

-Dave

Exactly.  When I opened it up, i compared the size of the coil assembly to a ZW, the ZW is bigger than my VW.  I imagine it would be easy enough to swap out the coil assemblies but I highly doubt that there are many ZW coil assemblies just laying around ready to sell to Bo.  LOL 

I'm going to refurbish this baby up and get it somewhat modernized and just enjoy it for what it is and the history it went through.  I mean it was born a scan three years after WW2 and before the Korean War.   

I just imagine that this was something my step-dad would have dreamed of getting when he was a youngster pouring through the Lionel catalog.   

@bobotech posted:

On top of that i just LOVE that the VW I have is from 1948.  I was born in 1967 so this unit was just about 20 years old when I was born.   

There, I fixed it.  You're welcome.   

Mitch 

sent you Email about part.    Lenny J

@bobotech posted:

 I imagine it would be easy enough to swap out the coil assemblies ...

It's actually rather difficult... the brackets, dials & contact arms are all unique to the VW.

@ADCX Rob posted:

It's actually rather difficult... the brackets, dials & contact arms are all unique to the VW.

I'm not going to do it.  If my VW works fine as is after doing the basic upgrades and maintenance parts (quick blow circuit breaker, whistle diodes, graphite rollers) then i will just keep it as is.  No need upgrading it since it will probably have plenty of power for my needs. 

Notwithstanding suggestions above, when rewiring a transformer, I always use polarized plugs, BUT, I do my transformer phasing before closing up the transformer, so that thereafter whenever plugged in, it is in phase with every other transformer.  After connecting the line cord, if out of phase, I unsolder, switch wires, and resolder

In my opinion, to operate this antique electric trains safely a few things should be done. All transformers should plugged into a power strip.  The power strip should be turned off when any of the transformers are unplugged and any time the supervising adult is out of the room. The power strip should plugged into a GFI outlet. There should be external circuit breakers on each of the variable voltage outputs, maybe 6 to 10 amps, and a single circuit breaker on the common output, maybe 15 amps. 

Re: Parts

Consider this upgrade for Whistle Diode repair.   Replacing ZW Whistle Rectifier Discs with Diodes

Contact Jeff at The Train Tender   for your ring and other parts.
7607 Gregg Road
Bloomfield, NY 14469-9790
Phone: 585-229-2050
E-Mail: jeff@ttender.com

@Susan Deats posted:

Re: Parts

Consider this upgrade for Whistle Diode repair.   Replacing ZW Whistle Rectifier Discs with Diodes

One minor caveat with this method:  If you are operating modern electronic whistles, you will need to reverse the leads to the tracks, as this technique changes the half-wave DC from upper to lower wave and will operate the bell circuit instead.   

Mitch 

I'm not going to get into the diode issue, but would note for the record that reversing wires to tracks will unphase transformers if you have more than one.

@CBQ_Bill posted:

What is a VW transformer ?  

Was the VW transformer made by Volks Wagen ?

I've been scratching my head over that question.  I can't think of where a transformer would have been useful in my 1957 or 1963 VW.  They didn't even have radios. 

I don't know which thread I read tonight is more fascinating/frustrating:  this one or the one about the couplers. I'm told by my friends who spend a lot of time on computers and blogs and forums that the answers and remarks on this site are pretty typical of the web world in general. But for ducks sake, one would think that there were 300,000,000 opinions on these subjects -- one per human in the country. What is this predilection that members feel that they must continue to add more rambling and off-topic (and occasionally incorrect) advice when the original question has been asked and answered?

Common sense (and probably the NEC, but I don't have time to find the citation) says do not add (or delete) a ground connection. Simpler than that: Why change the design of an electrical item, if you aren't qualified? There: simple.  

Arthur - I take your point but sometimes a robust discussion will bring up issues that others may not have considered.  It is a way of sharing knowledge and experience and finding answers to questions the OP did not know to ask.

With transformers there are many variable to consider since there is no fixed standard that applies to decades of evolving transformer design and train electronics.  Many old transformers do not meet today's safety and reliability standards so improvements are possible and regularly applied - in some cases by people who repair transformers and trains for a living.  For example someone using only one transformer may be surprised by the phasing issue if they expand their layout to multiple blocks and power sources.

Lionel did some funky things with some of their transformer models - terminal designation A, B, U etc. is one example.

"I've been scratching my head over that question.  I can't think of where a transformer would have been useful in my 1957 or 1963 VW.  They didn't even have radios."

I'll play the game of adding one more inane and useless remark.  "No, but they had spark plugs. The ignition coil in a VW is a transformer.  6 or 12 volts in...a few thousand volts out."

"I take your point but sometimes a robust discussion will bring up issues that others may not have considered.  "

Absolutely.  I agree that a robust discussion is helpful.   But hand-waving and grasping for "facts" is not helpful, nor sometimes even healthy.

I wish I had a dollar for every time some well-meaning hand-waver gives the wrong electrical advice.

And as a licensed electrician, and a fire marshal, I wish I had a dollar for every chintzy power strip I've encountered.

BTW I admire your rhetoric: robust is a wonderful word that needs to be used more often. 

Thanks.  Rhetoric is also a good word.

When I met my wife she had a VW bug with a rotted floor.  It would "transform" into a shower when going through a puddle.

@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

One minor caveat with this method:  If you are operating modern electronic whistles, you will need to reverse the leads to the tracks, as this technique changes the half-wave DC from upper to lower wave and will operate the bell circuit instead.   

Mitch 

Mitch, why do you say that?

@ADCX Rob posted:

Mitch, why do you say that?

Personal experience.  I did a zener diode install identical to the above link on a ZW, and had to reverse the track leads in order for electronic horns to work properly.  

Mitch 

When Lionel introduced the bell sound a box was included with engines that simply reversed the leads to the track to select horn vs. bell.

@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Personal experience.  I did a zener diode install identical to the above link on a ZW, and had to reverse the track leads in order for electronic horns to work properly.  

1. Mitch 

Reverse the diode.   The stud type diodes can't be reversed easy, but often are made two ways, annode stud or cathode stud. (They should note that really; but your context was a mystery for me too.)

@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Personal experience.  I did a zener diode install identical to the above link on a ZW, and had to reverse the track leads in order for electronic horns to work properly.  

Mitch 

Did you follow the schematic from the ZW manual?

@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Personal experience.  I did a zener diode install identical to the above link on a ZW, and had to reverse the track leads in order for electronic horns to work properly. 

Then you used the wrong diode. You should use an Anode to Case diode with a 40 amp / 400 volt rating. THIS IS THE ONE YOU WANT. This is an NTE5991 Silicon Power Rectifier Diode.

Here's the procedure. The diode replacement process starts at 3 minutes into this video.

Wow! Jim makes it look so easy. I've done several of those in my lifetime and not even come close to doing it as quick as he did!   And effortlessly.