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The following photo was posted on a thread dealing the Lionel Red Carpet event held yesterday in Concord, NC.  Included was a photo from the new catalog showing a new Legacy version of Lionel's M-1 Mountain.  And what should be down in the lower portion of the right page but what appears to be a Pennsy N5 or N5B caboose?  If so, I'm thrilled.  This was I believe Pennsy's most common cabin car, yet it's never been produced in plastic in 3 rail O scale.  I've been bugging Andy Edleman of MTH to add this to MTH's fleet of plastic PRR cabooses for years without success.  So if any one can make out that blurry text and confirm my impression, I think I'll finally get my wish.  And I don't think Andy's gonna be real happy...

 

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Originally Posted by Hot Water:

OK all you Pennsylvania RR experts; what specifically is an "N5", and an "N5c" and or an "N5b" PRR Cabin Car? Please post photos of the prototype Cabin Cars, so we may see the differences, and how the model manufacturers products compare to the prototypes.

 

Thanks in advance.

The N5, N5a, and N5b all had rectangular windows and squared-ff cupolas.  The N5c is the one with the porthole windows and streamlined cupola.

 

N5b

 

Pennsy N5b Cabin Car

N5c

 

Pennsy N5c Cabin Car

 

Stuart

 

Originally Posted by John Korling:

N5B caboose, heck!  I'm more intrigued by the Legacy Cab Forward & additional scale PFE reefers I'm seeing on the previous page! (although I'm aghast at the very idea of a "Daylight" version of the cab forward; might as well paint it up in Warbonnet colors or offer it in Pennsy Brunswick green).

All legacy stuff is supposed to be "built to order". That means they will only be making 1 daylight cab forward....... for Lee Willis

Originally Posted by mwb:
Originally Posted by Hot Water:

OK all you Pennsylvania RR experts; what specifically is an "N5", and an "N5c" and or an "N5b" PRR Cabin Car? Please post photos of the prototype Cabin Cars, so we may see the differences, and how the model manufacturers products compare to the prototypes.

 

Thanks in advance.

http://prr.railfan.net/diagram...bn&sz=sm&fr=

 

 

Good answer, mwb!

 

 

100_0910

100_0911

Neal - the appearance (FINALLY) of a N5 in plastic is pretty cool and long overdue - I agree!  The N5C has been done to death by Lionel, Williams, MTH, and K-Line (maybe others).  Recently (last 5 years), MTH has brought out the N6b (very nice).  About 10 years ago, MTH made N-8s. 

 

Below is Weaver's shot at what passes for an N5, although to be fair, they call it a "Northeastern" caboose (whatever that is).  This model is actually based on a Reading prototype.  The bottom body is an undecorated, unassembled Weaver body that I am making into a Weirton Steel caboose (based on an N5).

 

 

DSCN0045

 

George

Attachments

Images (3)
  • 100_0910: N5C
  • 100_0911: N5 - plain or "a" or "b" variety
  • DSCN0045

George,

 

The "Northeastern Caboose" was a generic model used by many of the railroads in the Northeast (What a surprise!) such as Reading and WM and others. Weaver's is close but still not the same as a PRR N5.  I kept bugging Joe Hayter (owner of Weaver) to cut a new N5 shell, but to use the existing frame and interior and possibly the end details from the Northeastern.  While I can't swear that things like the wheelbase and other dimensions on the Northeastern caboose are a precise match for the PRR N5, they appear to be close.

The production of this piece has been a running joke between me and Andy Edelman, and he assured me that this would be MTH's next newly tooled freight car.  Who knows if that's really true, as competitive as MTH tends to be, maybe this will spur them into action after all these years.

Last edited by PRRMiddleDivision

The N5 was the original steel caboose built during or around WW I.   As built, the N5 had straight across end platforms and no collision posts.   The ends just had thin safetry railings.   It also had lever brake controls rather than wheels.   Finally, the stove was at one end, so the stack on the roof is near the end.

 

The N5B was built much later and was an upgrade to the N5.   It was a foot or so longer and possible had a different frame.   The N5B was built with collision posts and to accomodate, the end platforms and roofs were bulged out in the middle.   The safety railings were more complex and robust, and it had a brakewheel.   The stove was near the cupola, so the stack is next to the cupola.  

 

The N5A was sort of an experiement.   I think there were on 4 of them and they had Dureaya cushion underframes.    The photos I have seen displayed fabricated steps on the ends rather than the typical cast ones.    

 

Sometime in the 30s I think many of the original N5s were rebuilt to be close to the N5B.    The interiors were done to the N5B layout, so the stack moved to near the cupola.   They got collision posts and the  upgraded ends with more safety railings.   They had the same frame so should be a foot shorter.   

 

There were many N5s and N5Bs.  

 

The N5C was the porthole window version.   I think it may have the same underframe and size as the N5B, hence the same series.   It probably has the same interior layout too.    This was built during WW II I think.  

 

The last steel caboose was the N8 built after WW II.   It is the one shown in the last photo above.    

 

Note that antennas have nothing to do with which version of the cabin it was.    Some of each class had antennas and some did not.   It all depended on serice I guess and perhaps when shopping.    I understand the trainphones did not work under the wires in the NE corridor, so cabins assigned there had no use for them.   So antennas are not a spotting feature.  

 

Originally up until after WWII, cabins were all freight car red, including handrails and truck sideframes.    Around 1947, PRR started painting the roofs black during shopping and painting the hand rails safety yellow.   Eventually the entire roof and cupola were painted black in the later paint schemes.    Before 1955, as far as I know, all classes except N8 did not have any keystone logos, only the road name in 7 or 9 inch letters.   The N8 as built had an original paint scheme with the circle logo.    When they started the shadow keystone logo in 1955, the cabins also got logos and the lettering was much larger.   

 

The last paint scheme, which I think is ugly, just has the plain PRR and the plain Logo.   Not sure when this started, but it is probably the early 60s.

Wish Lionel would have cataloged both a pre-war and post-war paint scheme. That way we could have bought multiple cabs.  I mostly model pre-war, so I would like an all freight car red one.  They could also do one with just a black roof to please others.  

I am always happy to see new tooling and will probably buy one.

Way to go Lionel.

Dan

P.S. If it's all new tooling and not a reused frame, I hope they add Kadee pads.

Last edited by loco-dan

The PRSL had (IIRC) N5 cabin cars rather than N5b.  Even so, I sure hope Lionel realizes that they can sell a bunch more of these if they do them in PRSL with multiple road numbers.  The variations between N5 and N5b are minor, and this is probably the best deal PRSL modelers in O are ever going to get in a plastic N5 cabin car. 

 

IF (and I know it's a big "if") MTH is still going to do an N5 car, it would make sense for them to do the N5 rather than the N5b and then they could offer that in PRSL too.

Last edited by PGentieu

I would not say the difference between the as-built N5 and N5B are totally minor.    I think the moved stack, different end platforms and roofline, and collision posts are very obvious differences.   However if the PRSL had the rebuilt N5s, then the difference becomes pretty minor.    The collision posts are big I-BEAM looking verticals on the end platforms on either side of the roofwalk.

OK all you Pennsylvania RR experts; what specifically is an "N5", and an "N5c" and or an "N5b" PRR Cabin Car? 

 

PRR ND[left] PRR N5b[center] PRRN5[Right] PRR NC[center front-bobber] 

PRR Cabin Cars 001

 

PRR N5 as built[right]

PRR Cabin Cars 002

 

PRR N5b[left-notice"Crash Posts"] PRR N5[right-NO "Crash Posts"]

PRR Cabin Cars 006

 

PRR N5

PRR Cabin Cars 008

 

PRR N5b

PRR Cabin Cars 009

 

PRR N5c'sPRR n5c's 001

Attachments

Images (6)
  • PRR Cabin Cars 001
  • PRR Cabin Cars 002
  • PRR Cabin Cars 006
  • PRR Cabin Cars 008
  • PRR Cabin Cars 009
  • PRR n5c's 001
Last edited by prrhorseshoecurve
Originally Posted by prrjim:

I would not say the difference between the as-built N5 and N5B are totally minor.    I think the moved stack, different end platforms and roofline, and collision posts are very obvious differences.   However if the PRSL had the rebuilt N5s, then the difference becomes pretty minor.    The collision posts are big I-BEAM looking verticals on the end platforms on either side of the roofwalk.

Jim -

 

I'm not at home right now so I can't look at my usual reference material but looking at this website - http://rickb773-prsl.blogspot.com/2011/11/cabins.html - it says: "Originally the PRSL had a number of 4 wheel wooden ND cabins. These were replaced with a total of 25 steel cabins from the Pennsylvania RR. 22 of them were of the N5 class all built between 1916 and 1925 and rebuilt for the PRSL in 1950."  Since it says they were rebuilt in 1950 for the PRSL, I'm hoping the differences are indeed minor - maybe you can share some more information on what the differences are.  Thanks for your information.

Last edited by PGentieu

As to having multiple paints schemes available, they will...at least as part of a set.  Check out this photo of the new catalog from the same thread.  Note the caboose.  Also an N5b but with "Pennsylvania" spelled out and a Tuscan roof. Interestingly, the engine does not have a tender mounted antenna, (as does my MTH M1b) but the caboose does.  Not sure when PRR started to use this radio induction system (1930's?), but if not prototypical, could just swap out the caboose with one of my non antenna equipped cabin cars...a woodsided MTH N6B perhaps?

 

Last edited by PRRMiddleDivision

PGentieu,

 

The photos posted by Mark Massa show the differences pretty well between the N5 and N5B.    A rebuilt N5 used by the PRR would look like the N5B but be about 1 foot shorter.   I do not know anything about the PRSL rebuilds.    But it would make sense that asked for newer ones that had gotten the rebuild initially, or got it as part of the sale.   

Originally Posted by PGentieu:

The PRSL had (IIRC) N5 cabin cars rather than N5b.  Even so, I sure hope Lionel realizes that they can sell a bunch more of these if they do them in PRSL with multiple road numbers.  The variations between N5 and N5b are minor, and this is probably the best deal PRSL modelers in O are ever going to get in a plastic N5 cabin car. 

 

IF (and I know it's a big "if") MTH is still going to do an N5 car, it would make sense for them to do the N5 rather than the N5b and then they could offer that in PRSL too.

Thank you!! I thought this as soon as I saw the caboose. The heck with those big engines-they never ran on the PRSL!!

Now if we can get some PRSL diesels, I'll be ecstatic!

Guy

Guy - I agree.  I never expected it would be Lionel that would do the N5.  Now I'm thinking it might be more productive to ask Lionel about doing the Baldwin DRS-4-4-1500s and early AS-16s (same carbody, just need to move the bell, I believe) and S-12 switcher.  There were a bunch of other railroads that had these locomotives and as far as I know the only one that has ever been done in O scale is a 2-rail S-12 in brass by Rich Yoder. 

There have been Baldwin AS-616 done in O Scale by OMI I think.    And Carworks did a whole series of various Baldwin switdhers in brass.   I have a VO1000.   

 

Weaver currently does the VO1000 in a nice plastic model in both 2 and 3 rail.   

 

MTH also did the AS616 in both 2 and 3 rail years ago and many times in 3 rail only.

OK here are the details on both of the N5B cabooses that I could read from my photos.

 

photo 1

photo 1A

For the N5B for separate sale.

All new tooling
Hidden uncoupling tabs
Molded pads for easy conversion to scale couplers
High level of separately applied detail parts
Road and era specific details
Smoke with on/off switch
Detailed and painted interiors with brakeman figure
Interior illumination
Lighted marker lights
Length Approx. 8 1/7"
Minimum Curve: 031

photo 36

photo 36A

And from the set.

Die-cast metal trucks and operating couplers
Durable plastic body with metal frame and handrails
Interior LED Lighting
Smoke with on/off switch
Brakeman figure in cupola
Era specific details
Molded pads for easy conversion to scale couplers
Length 8"
Minimum Curve: 031

Attachments

Images (4)
  • photo 1
  • photo 1A
  • photo 36
  • photo 36A
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