Is there an alternative rattle can to Testor's Dullcoat

Krylon has a clear flat paint that's as good as dull coat.

Matte medium is an in between finish, a little sheen that's pleasing to the eye. A nice finish coat.

Artists matte fixative. Dick blick brand works well

All the rattle-can clear-coats work fine. Get the cheap stuff from Home Depot or Walmart.

There is no substitute for Dullcote.

Laidoffsick posted:

There is no substitute for Dullcote.

I recommend investing in a can of each (Dullcote and generic  clear coat) and doing a side-by-side comparison.  That is what I did.  I recommend a blind comparison, if your SO is willing to help.

Thanks for all the responses.   Think I'll try a comparison.  In reality it is more about having to drive a ways to the store to get dullcoat vs a couple of minutes to get a larger rattle can locally.  I also use the dullcoat for some structures and scratch built stuff which is why I go thru it.  Obviously I could just buy a couple of cans at a time but I was just interested in there was a good alternative in a larger spray can.

Thanks to all, I appreciate the help

Ed

I use Krylon clear matte finish spray, and I'm happy with it.

I've tried just about everything out there, from big box stores, to artist supply, Walmart... and in the end, Dullcote always wins. I don't use spray cans though, I airbrush the bottled Dullcote.

Laidoffsick posted:

I don't use spray cans though, I airbrush the bottled Dullcote.

That may well make a difference. I have no experience with airbrushing it.

I will be impressed if anyone can reliable tell the difference between rattle-can Dullcote and generic in a true blind test.

Hi Doug:

Try Fixative Spray for Chalk by Krylon. Matte / I still prefer Testors Dullcote but in my train room I have to open a window and turn on the exhaust fan.

Gary

I use the competing products from Krylon and Rustoleum on buildings and scenery, and use the 3 oz. Testors Dullcoat only on weathering cars and engines...  The 3 oz dullcoat cans definitely meter out a finer coating which is imporant if I am working on rolling stock. 

 I don't find it worth the extra expense to use Dullcoat on the buildings,  a large 11 oz ratle can costs about the same as a 3 oz can of Dullcoat.

Just be careful guys.  Never use Testors dullcote over acrylics and only with enamel paints.  Some Krylon dull coats are "too hot" for some paints as well.  Test before you commit your work to it.  Lately I've taken to airbrushing Tamiya acrylics and used their dullcote.  Easier to apply filters as well. End result is not too shabby, and easy cleanup.

I use dullcote over acrylics all the time. You just have to make sure its dry. Also a benefit of airbrushing because you control the ratio and the air pressure used. Pete it's not just about a blind test, but how it acts for the purpose of sealing and giving a texture for those who weather. To knock the shine off a building, use whatever is cheap. If you want to weather rolling stock or locomotives Dullcote is the best, and that's why so many modelers continue to use it and recommend it. 

Do any of these clear coats provide a hard seal that inhibits chipping and scratches? I bead blast vintage die cast and sheet metal train equipment, prime it, put a finish color coat on it and then bake it. But, the finish does not seem to be as resistant to chips and scratches as the original. I use an airbrush with restoration paints that match the original colors. Thanks for comments.   

Laidoffsick posted:

Pete it's not just about a blind test, but how it acts for the purpose of sealing and giving a texture for those who weather. 

Interesting discussion.  You raise a good point: Clearly experienced modelers have diverging opinions on this topic. Perhaps it is not so much that Dullcote  or generic clearcoat produces better results overall, but that using one or the other requires different application techniques or some such. I still believe that if the final results are indistinguishable in a blind test, it is hard to call one "better". But, if a given modeler finds one easier or more peasant to use, that is worth something, too.

The biggest issue for me is using a "rattle can" vs. using an airbrush. To me, there is just no comparison whatsoever. I think this needs to be included in any logical discussion on using any type of dullcote whether it be Testors or whatever you use. An airbrush gives you quality results that are hard to beat, and is very easy to learn to use. Well worth the minimal investment. 

Last year for lack of a Floquil primer I used Tamiyas Fine Primer in the spray can version on 2 brass freight cars and the result to me was just as good as airbrushing, over the years I have been strictly an air brush fan probably painted and decaled well over 100 cars and engines, Scalecoat being my preferred paint , great finish for decaling. JMO

Laidoffsick posted:

I use dullcote over acrylics all the time. You just have to make sure its dry. 

In my very limited experience I've also done this and haven't noticed any problems.  But again, I'm a novice so I'd be curious to know what the potential drawback is and maybe avoid some future headaches.

Dullcote over acrylic, no issue.  It’s alcohol stains over dullcote that causes an issue.  

I still prefer artists fixative, but I use a ton of Pan pastels on kits.  I tend to use dullcote over paint.  

I do know that the Testor's dull coat can does spray a finer most than any rattle cans I have used.   I like the suggestion of using big box store cans for the buildings and saving the dullcoat for the cars.   Too bad they don't make it in a large can.   I have yet to master the airbrush so that is not an option for me.

Thanks for the input by all,

Ed

Laidoffsick posted:

..... and in the end, Dullcote always wins. I don't use spray cans though, I airbrush the bottled Dullcote.

With airbrushing it must be like using a different product. I have not been pleased with Dullcote from a rattlecan - the application is often splotchy and uneven.  I'm going to try one of the other paints suggested here. I've had pretty good luck with Krylon paints. (Far superior to Rustoleum sprays.)

I wish Tamiya made a dullcote type paint - their rattlecan nozzles are excellent.

The new Rustoleum nozzles with the trigger valves are pretty nice.

Original Rusty is a thicker paint, high oil content (that smell is fishoil I guess). It's also slow cure, always releasing oil to any metal. I.e., under it's hardshell surface it's softer.

Your light coats keep the molecules of the topcoat from "surfacing" fully to each other (flatten/surface tension), leaving little islands of paint. When drying, since not connected, the islands dont shrink pull and tug at each other, nor the surface, while trying to lay flatter and shrink tight as the carrier evaporates. 

  The surface penetration ability/surface tension of the carrier and the drying nature of each topcoat, versus the hardness and chemical resistance of the bottom coat, is why it's best to stick to one type of paint. Even one brand for more security.

Laid off...... Best at ? You never do say much about why, only best best best.  And that may be, but side by side can only help verify things imo.

Hi guys-

I'm the new old man on the block here and have something to offer about using the TESTOR's Dullcoat in rattle cans.

I am strictly a scale ship modeler who is still "into" the old Loinel trains from my childhood.

I do a lot of scale figures and such and I purchased a really nice Captain Jack Sparrow vinyl figure at Disney World for a few bucks marked down. I painted the entire figure using Testor's acrylics and weathering powders. my figure looks awesome. Then I grabbed a rattle can of Dullcoat and sprayed the entire figure. My garage was rather chilly that day and when I went back to check on the results, to my horror, the entire figure had glazed over and looked like it was frozen solid. I had to repaint the whole figure over again and I wasn't very happy.

After a call to Testor's they told me to never "EVER" spray dullcoat when it's cold! They suggested warming the can in a bowl of warm water first. READ the label instructions, they are put on the can for a reason. Really!!!

On all of my scale ship models I have used both Krylon, Rustoleum as well as Testor's Dull coat. Except for the cost of a tiny can of Dullcaot over a large can of Krylon, I can see no difference at all.

Thanks for letting my air my views! I really like this site!

Frank J. Ryczek, Jr.

Maritime Artworks Limited

Jacksonville, Florida

Frank,

Thank you very much for the info about not using dullcoat when it is cold.  I  paint and spray the cars in my garage workshop and while I put heat out there I generally just keep it warm enough to prevent things from getting really cold.

I guess I have been lucky so far not getting the result you had when Imhave sprayed n a chilly workshop.

Thanks for that input.

Ed

Ed Walsh-

You are so welcome, my friend! Just trying to add my two cents worth! Glad to help out!

Frank Ryczek, Jr.

Maritime Artworks Limited

Jacksonville, Florida

GOOOOOOOOOOOO JAGS)

Ed and all-

I have a real good friend in my scale ship modeler's club who told me he bought a can of Wal- Mart clear flat for 88 cents a can. "88 CENTS A CAN"!!!!!!!!!!!

I asked him how it was working out and he brought his 1/200 scale WW II era HORNET air craft carrier to the club meeting and there was no fogging anywhere on the model.

My buddy bought a dozen cans of the stuff! For less than a buck a can I'm going to be stocking up as well!!

I'm going to be looking out for this WM brand flat spray in Jacksonville, FL. Several WM's here! If you can't find it, ask for it, or wait until spring when all the DIY's are out and about.

Thanks to everyone out there!

Frank Ryczek, Jr.

Maritime Artworks Limited

Jacksonville, Florida

(GO JAGS)

Hey guys_

Just a thought about using rattle cans on models. I , for one love using them and I'm all thumbs when it come to air brushing. I tried it several times, made a huge mess and went right back to hand brushing and rattle cans.

I'm sure as shooting that everybody on this board has at least a 1/2 dozen spray rattle cans in their work shop, right? Here my question- "WHAT's the expiration date(s) on spray rattle cans????"

How many times have you reached for a spray can only to find it fizzing when you push the button down??? What is a good rule of thumb for how long rattle spray paint cans can last?? I still have a can of WD-40 that has got to be 10 years old, yeah, yeah, it's not paint, but still!!

Frank Ryczek, Jr.

I've been building scale models for most of my adult life and I've won several IPMS shows with my models. When it comes to flat coating I use nothing but Micro-Scale Industries Micro Flat in an airbrush. It comes in one ounce bottles and sells for around $3.25 a bottle.

It works well with all types of paint and sprays super smooth.

The only product I don't recommend is Krylon Matte rattle can. As mentioned before Krylon is too hot and it'll ruin a paint job if sprayed to heavy or if the paint is not given enough time to vent off before applying the clear.

breezinup posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

..... and in the end, Dullcote always wins. I don't use spray cans though, I airbrush the bottled Dullcote.

With airbrushing it must be like using a different product. I have not been pleased with Dullcote from a rattlecan - the application is often splotchy and uneven.  I'm going to try one of the other paints suggested here. I've had pretty good luck with Krylon paints. (Far superior to Rustoleum sprays.)

I wish Tamiya made a dullcote type paint - their rattlecan nozzles are excellent.

 

They do.  It is product TS80.  Safe for enamels and acrylics.  

rustyrail o scale posted:

I've been building scale models for most of my adult life and I've won several IPMS shows with my models. When it comes to flat coating I use nothing but Micro-Scale Industries Micro Flat in an airbrush. It comes in one ounce bottles and sells for around $3.25 a bottle.

It works well with all types of paint and sprays super smooth.

The only product I don't recommend is Krylon Matte rattle can. As mentioned before Krylon is too hot and it'll ruin a paint job if sprayed to heavy or if the paint is not given enough time to vent off before applying the clear.

Interesting is this a water based finish, do you use water or isopropyl alcohol for a thinner?

If you have to thin your dullcote, glosscote or Future, you have an issue with your airbrush.  They are VERY thin to begin with, due to their nature.  That said, some are thicker than others.  PollyScale can be thinned with alcohol, with Testors Dullcote you can use Model Master thinner, #1159 thinner or a quality lacquer thinner.  20 psi and under should provide outstanding results with thin coats.  The only thing I've heard about Micro Flat is that if thinned improperly it can become a milky mess.  !!

hibar posted:

rustyrail o scale posted:

I've been building scale models for most of my adult life and I've won several IPMS shows with my models. When it comes to flat coating I use nothing but Micro-Scale Industries Micro Flat in an airbrush. It comes in one ounce bottles and sells for around $3.25 a bottle.

It works well with all types of paint and sprays super smooth.

The only product I don't recommend is Krylon Matte rattle can. As mentioned before Krylon is too hot and it'll ruin a paint job if sprayed to heavy or if the paint is not given enough time to vent off before applying the clear.

Interesting is this a water based finish, do you use water or isopropyl alcohol for a thinner?

Yes Micro Flat is water based but I've never had to thin it for my airbrush. It has always sprayed perfect straight from the bottle.

They also make several other great paint related products that I soley use like they're decal setter and mask film. All are top of the line and highly recommended when the job's gotta be perfect.

Frank Ryczek, Jr. posted:

Hey guys_

Just a thought about using rattle cans on models. I , for one love using them and I'm all thumbs when it come to air brushing. I tried it several times, made a huge mess and went right back to hand brushing and rattle cans.

I'm sure as shooting that everybody on this board has at least a 1/2 dozen spray rattle cans in their work shop, right? Here my question- "WHAT's the expiration date(s) on spray rattle cans????"

How many times have you reached for a spray can only to find it fizzing when you push the button down??? What is a good rule of thumb for how long rattle spray paint cans can last?? I still have a can of WD-40 that has got to be 10 years old, yeah, yeah, it's not paint, but still!!

Frank Ryczek, Jr.

 

I have 25 year old cans that spray. I shake mine every once in a while. Shaking before spraying and letting it sit helps...if paint in the pickup tube hasnt cured.

When done with use, a quick upsidedown spray to clear the tube, valve and tip helps ensure it will spray again.

Sometimes the pickup tube's content is just thick.  When on a shelf the paint seperates and gets denser at the bottom as the thinners, solids and other chemicals rise and fall. The tube is also drawing from low, so don't "test spray" until you shake WELL. Waiting after a first good shake, even better. The tube is now exposed to thinner paint and you might work enough thinner up it to clear it. Letting it sit allows the thinner mixture to (hopefully) penetrate the tube's contentent, thinning even more.

Removing the tip and adding a few drops of lacquer or enamel thinner, etc, then pumping the tip and tapping on the can lightly (to flow bubbles) to allow the liquid to drop onto the valve, even into the pickup tube(no pressure, so it flows).  Wait a minute, or a day, Shake, Try again, Repeat. It takes a few tries before I give in

I have recently noticed that the instructions on some rattle cans have started to recommend wiping the tip after use. It seems to work well. It is especially useful on those newfangled cans that are designed so that you can spray them upside down--no way to clear the tips.

Go to the hardware store and get some brushing lacquer, about $20 per quart.  It simply dries a little slower than spraying lacquer, which dries FAST.  The reason I say get brushing lacquer is spraying lacquer is getting hard to find.  My local auto paint store can order it for me but it's very pricey now.  Both are just nitrocellulose lacquer, which is what Dullcoat is.

Then go to the auto paint store and get a pint of flattening agent.  Nothing is cheap when it comes to auto paint these days but a can will run about $20.

You aren't going to brush it on.  Well, I guess you could, but controlling thickness is harder; maybe thin it with Acetone.     Use your hobby air brush sprayer ( mine is a simple Paasche single stage) to spray on the lacquer.  A light coat is all you need; in fact, never glob it on.  But controlling the thickness is easy with a hobby sprayer.

To make the lacquer dull just mix in the flattening agent.  I love doing it this way, as I can control just how flat the final finish turns out.  Still too bright, hit it with a second coat in a few minutes after the first coat dries and you can see what you got, then mix in more flattening agent for the next spray.  I find 25% flattening agent gives me a very dull finish, but still clear.  (Doesn't get cloudy).

A quart of brushing lacquer and a couple pints of flattening agent are enough for probably a hundred cars, or more.  And in the long run way cheaper than that tiny can of Dullcoat.

Enamel paint is considered a cold finish, while lacquer is considered a hot finish.  Sometimes a hot finish can burn through a cold finish, but I've never had that happen as thin coats of dull lacquer do the job.  That's one reason not to glob it on.  And let the enamel sit a couple of days before doing the dull lacquer dull coat.

If you are fearful of burn through and want a great water based dull finish, get Nelson's flat clear.  It's water based, used on real airplanes, is extremely durable and sprays easily.  Water based is a little tricky to spray for a person not used to spraying water-based paints.  And it takes a little while to dry as the water evaporates.  It is not all that pricey.

Volphin posted:

breezinup posted:

I wish Tamiya made a dullcote type paint - their rattlecan nozzles are excellent. 

They do.  It is product TS80.  Safe for enamels and acrylics.  

Thanks. I see it also works with metal as well as plastics. 

Waddy posted:

Go to the hardware store and get some brushing lacquer, about $20 per quart.  It simply dries a little slower than spraying lacquer, which dries FAST.  The reason I say get brushing lacquer is spraying lacquer is getting hard to find.  My local auto paint store can order it for me but it's very pricey now.  Both are just nitrocellulose lacquer, which is what Dullcoat is.

Then go to the auto paint store and get a pint of flattening agent.  Nothing is cheap when it comes to auto paint these days but a can will run about $20.

You aren't going to brush it on.  Well, I guess you could, but controlling thickness is harder; maybe thin it with Acetone.     Use your hobby air brush sprayer ( mine is a simple Paasche single stage) to spray on the lacquer.  A light coat is all you need; in fact, never glob it on.  But controlling the thickness is easy with a hobby sprayer.

To make the lacquer dull just mix in the flattening agent.  I love doing it this way, as I can control just how flat the final finish turns out.  Still too bright, hit it with a second coat in a few minutes after the first coat dries and you can see what you got, then mix in more flattening agent for the next spray.  I find 25% flattening agent gives me a very dull finish, but still clear.  (Doesn't get cloudy).

A quart of brushing lacquer and a couple pints of flattening agent are enough for probably a hundred cars, or more.  And in the long run way cheaper than that tiny can of Dullcoat.

Enamel paint is considered a cold finish, while lacquer is considered a hot finish.  Sometimes a hot finish can burn through a cold finish, but I've never had that happen as thin coats of dull lacquer do the job.  That's one reason not to glob it on.  And let the enamel sit a couple of days before doing the dull lacquer dull coat.

If you are fearful of burn through and want a great water based dull finish, get Nelson's flat clear.  It's water based, used on real airplanes, is extremely durable and sprays easily.  Water based is a little tricky to spray for a person not used to spraying water-based paints.  And it takes a little while to dry as the water evaporates.  It is not all that pricey.

No offense, but acetone and my plastics stay VERY far apart.  While a great thinner for metal, it will attack almost every model plastic made.