Ives, is it worth it?

Brian,

I'm not an Ives person, however, from what you described there is "zinc pest" going on. One other thing, always go with your gut instinct. If you're still weary, walk away.

 

"Pappy"

As long it's a paint issue and not the metal exploding, I'd take it for $100. These things go for much more than that even in the current condition. With a little bit of time, and a few parts it looks like it's worth the investment. But, as I said, that first detail needs to be defined. Big difference between he two.

I also believe Ives trains were often victims of zinc pest.   You don't want to be the last one holding a pile of metal flakes.

I would walk.   Just my opinion.

I actually found a locomotive in similar shape on Ebay, could you confirm this is a problem with the zinc?

 

 

 

Sorry to write that it (Brian's engine) looks like Zinc rot (pest) to me.

Brian

The working motor itself would be worth the price. If it shows slight signs of zinc pest, yet is still pretty solid, I would go for it. Keep in mind the level of degradation has taken 70 years.

 

Steve

Is it possible to sand the bubbles down?

You can sand them and fill the pits if it has any. If there are deep pits, I'd fill them with JB Weld to add strength.

Steve

Brian, you're looking at the Ives 1122, a great engine which in reasonably good (C-6) condition and running is worth several times the $100 price.

 

In the photo from eBay, looks to me like it has paint flaking issues, and the pilot was broken and (attempted) repair with epoxy.  I don't see zinc pest.  With zinc casting deterioration, you see the casting warped, multiple fissures, or actually crumbling.  It's hard to make a definitive call from the photos of course, but both engines look fairly straight and intact.

 

some random die-cast zinc pest photos:

 

 

 

 

That Ives engine is definitly worth more that $100.00.  One thing that is usually missing is the window struts, that engine appears to have them intact.  Good find.  Ives only had zinc pest problems after Lionel bought them out.  Most Ives Locos had at least a cast iron frame or were entirely cast iron.

Alright, I've got a month to think about it...

 

I have to decide if it's worth the work now, and the exfoliation in the pilot beam still worries me a bit as I don't know if it will spread.

 

Anybody know where I can get my hands on a tender, driving rod, and cowcatcher? Does anybody reproduce parts for old Ives like they do AF & Lionel?

I would ask the seller if I could put a drop of oil on the armature and bearings and test run the locomotive for a few feet. If it doesn't run, repairs could be expensive.

The 1122 has not been reproduced, so parts could be hard to find.

 

Ives introduced the first mass-produced sequence reverse unit for toy trains in 1924, so an 1122 had one originally. After purchasing Ives (with the cooperation of American Flyer) in 1928, Lionel improved the design. In 1933, Lionel proclaimed this great innovation "Distant Control." Locomotives so equipped had an "E" added to their numbers (400E, for example). That gave rise to the name "E-unit."

 

Removing (and apparently discarding) the E-unit raises a red flag for me.

 

 

 

That engine is worth much more than the $100 the gent is asking for it.  I would buy it in a heartbeat!   

I'm not the kind of person that buys for the collector value  I just wanted to make sure the price wasn't a ripoff.

 

Parts are readily available from several sources: one is Hennings.

George Tebolt, Olsen's, and Trickel also have replacement trim and cast parts. Dave Trickel has a whole page of 1122 parts. Contact him here to have him send you a catalog.

 

The lack of a tender and the broken cow catcher seem to be the most serious issues here.  But with them, the price would be much higher; this may be a chance to get into a nice 1122 at a low price.  You could live with the flaking paint and the small bubbling until you were ready to repaint.  The price is certainly not a ripoff, and doing some work on it yourself can be very rewarding.

 

 

The "pimpled" or "textured" casting is characteristic of the later production casting run of these locos (1930) and should be considered the normal state in which to find them.  Typically the "pimpled" castings will have just a few"pop-outs" on the inside of the boiler casting where a chunk of the casting is missing (usually a few mm in size). 

 

That being said, the exterior usually does not suffer and holds together fairly well. 

I've never had problems with a pimpled loco breaking up aside from impact damage.

I'm fairly certain these castings will last for many years to come.

Original paint on the textured casting locos is very thin and wears off easily, thus they tend to have quite a bit of paint wear if still wearing the original coat.

 

Cowcatchers and firebox sides tend to break very easily and are often damaged.

The locos often require quite a bit of work and money to get them running or repaired perfectly, but it is doable.

Drive wheels rarely fail from casting failure.

Front and rear trailing wheels will often get stress cracks, but this usually does not affect operation of the locomotive.

 

The 1930 locos came painted in black or red.

and

with or without the electric (R-unit) reverse. 

I've been studying them for years and it is my favorite Ives locomotive.

 

$100.00 is a fair price for a "needs-work" loco, providing it has usable parts left on it and not too bad of damage.

R units can be troublesome and many were removed or bypass wired to avoid dealing with the repair.

A black paint tender is typically $75.00 or less, depending on condition.