I am wondering if this sensor is the same as L81294 Sensor built In Lionel’s fastrack? Thanks, Art
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Good question. It would be nice if more info were posted on Lionel's site.
I think they have to be different in that the regular Fastrack sensor track has the feature of a daisy chain wiring to other sensor tracks. It's not even clear if it uses the same single connector that I can see since the wrong side of the IRV2 is pictured in the product view.
Same function, but not likely to be the same form factor. This unit has a connector on it, and is intended to be connected to the 6-85296 LCS IRV2. It probably has the same sensors on it.
PLUS
PERMITS SENSOR TRACK APPLICATION FOR NON-FASTRACK LAYOUTS
NO MORE BASHING
Attachments
Images (2)
Ok. That picture looks like it uses the same connector but you daisy chain the IRV2 instead of the sensor strips. So...basically the same, connectorized differently.
I get what this thing does but when all is said and done, is this thing really worth wiring in to an existing layout? Not sure I see a major benefit vs work involved. BigRail
If you don't see the benefit, you're probably not the target market. 
gunrunnerjohn posted:If you don't see the benefit, you're probably not the target market.
I'm probably part of the target audience for more automated control, but at this point I am not likely to purchase many new IR transmitter equipped engines. By far most of my engines are MTH or engines upgraded with ERR's boards. Without the discontinued IR equipped cars (which I bought four to see how well they work but two were cancelled) or an add on IR kit, I'm not sure the IR transmitter-sensor system is worth it to me to install for my small percentage of IR equipped engines.
If the target audience is folks who are going to buy new Lionel Legacy engines, then I am not part of it.
I have Legacy, TMCC and DCS. I have TPCs, BPCs, and ASCs. If I'm not the target audience then I don't know who is. I'm just asking if this is really worth retrofitting into an existing layout based on what this does vs work involved vs can I do what it does myself? The major thing seems like self loading engines. It takes me 60 seconds to program a new engine so I don't really need self programming. BigRail
BigRail posted:I have Legacy, TMCC and DCS. I have TPCs, BPCs, and ASCs. If I'm not the target audience then I don't know who is. I'm just asking if this is really worth retrofitting into an existing layout based on what this does vs work involved vs can I do what it does myself? The major thing seems like self loading engines. It takes me 60 seconds to program a new engine so I don't really need self programming. BigRail
The sensor track does so much more than just loading engines into Legacy. With this lower cost alternative to the sensor track that will work with almost any track system, these can be added at crossings to signal grade crossings, added to areas of layouts to trigger recordings to control accessories and engine functions and such. They are a very cool addition but I really think it depends on the layout and what you want to accomplish. I think the loading engines part of it is minor.
The problem with Lionel and LCS is they don't promote it properly if at all. They do very little to really expose what the system can do.
Any idea when this will hit the shelves. I'm buying.
Severn posted:Any idea when this will hit the shelves. I'm buying.
Not yet. I am going to be sending Dave and the Lionel guys some questions I have for the Legacy meeting. I'll ask then because I hope to get some info to explain it a bit at the meeting. Dave last April said it will work exactly the same as the current sensor tracks.
Ok... for those that wonder what to do with it, it's basically a digital event creator. The event is created when an engine runs over it that has the IR sensor on it -- and a message is sent over the LCS "bus" (serial line), And then if you've a computer hooked up, you can receive the message and do something.
In theory you could have one of these on every track piece and keep tabs on the entire layout digitally just about. Of course that would cost a tiny bit of this stuff: $$$.
(it's fall down a little bit in the sense that if your dog takes the engine off the track, there's no way to know it)
It has some pre-canned "somethings" built in - for example you can tell it make the engine issue one of several sounds. And there's a record function which I've never used also which records a sequence of commands your doing -- so they are redone upon the event occurring again. (that is running over the sensor)
The one big disappointment with LCS is indeed the problem that you can't retrofit it to older stuff or even MTH stuff. I was really hoping that there would be an ERR upgrade kit, but with the demise of ERR development, that doesn't seem likely. The sensor cars are neat, but they need to continue producing them if LCS is going to have significant value. I think I have 10 or 11 sensor equipped Legacy locomotives, and the other 100+ don't have any way to trigger the sensors. I did buy two of the sensor cars when they were available, but that doesn't solve my problem for passenger trains.
Severn posted:snip
It has some pre-canned "somethings" built in - for example you can tell it make the engine issue one of several sounds. And there's a record function which I've never used also which records a sequence of commands your doing -- so they are redone upon the event occurring again. (that is running over the sensor)
That's actually the most exciting feature. Think about a sensor track at the entrance of a siding with an engine barn. Record the backing into the barn, run the bell, slow down and stop with brake sounds, etc. And then it repeats for any similar ir equipped engine you back in...forever.
As for more RR specific sensor cars, I bought some identical non sensor refers in road names I wanted and transferred the frame of sensor equipped REA cars to them. Of course I have an excess of empty REA cars...but that's ok. The most difficult issue with the swap was the colored steps at the corners of the refers. Some were glued pretty well, some just popped off for the swap.
I'd like to see an external sensor add-on too. I suppose one could try to crack the IR interface. I mean just in theory.
Severn posted:I'd like to see an external sensor add-on too. I suppose one could try to crack the IR interface. I mean just in theory.
Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing.
I know. But to be fair I did try to crack the MTH remote to TIU interface. I captured the signal with one of those new software defined radios dongles, looked at the results in audacity. And Mark Divechio looked at it for me and said, "yeah that's pretty much what I figured out already by hand using just my brain cells and true grit." Pretty impressive stuff. Anyway moving on from there since it's already been done -- I captured the signal from the track to engine because it appears to "bleed" through at least on SD70 and I can pick it up on the RF analyzer. But I don't know what to do with it -- more to the point it looks like a huge effort and I didn't want that. So I deftly moved onto the infamous legacy signal. And after some trial an and error, found that I could get too. I can't get the legacy remote though because its 2 ghz or something and the RF dongle doesn't go that high.
Given all that and not actually wanting to really work that heard, I idenified another 1-2k in more software and hardware that might help. But then of course decided that was way too much money for a curiosity on my part.
Still I'm game to look into an IR sniffer is there is such a thing.
Pretty easy to build an "IR sniffer", and since you're looking at the boxcar, you can do it on the bench with a sensor car. 
Marty, I can see a guy with a one track mainline installing them, though since we'll need the 6-85296 LCS IRV2 interface to use it the costs rise pretty quickly. If you have a double track main with 4 grade crossings that's: Eight 6-85383 @ $20 = $160 plus Four 6-85296 @ $ 100 = $400 which gets us to $560 list without any cables if my math is correct. Pricy, even more so for those without many IR equipped engines. And just what will our engineer/operators do if we automate everything? 
Looking forward to your questions and answers.
BobbyD posted:Marty, I can see a guy with a one track mainline installing them, though since we'll need the 6-85296 LCS IRV2 interface to use it the costs rise pretty quickly. If you have a double track main with 4 grade crossings that's: Sixteen 6-85383 @ $20 = $320 plus Four 6-85296 @ $ 100 = $400 which gets us to $720 list without any cables if my math is correct. Pricy, even more so for those without many IR equipped engines. And just what will our engineer/operators do if we automate everything?
Actually you only need (8) 6-85383 @ $20 as each IVR2 6-85296 comes with 2 sensor units. Still I see your point. This unit also solves the issue for the American Flyer folks who have been left without a Sensor Track option.
here's one of those web articles in regards to an IR sniffer which may or not work... suppose you need an air gap large enough to pick it up & have the sensor work between the engine and track sensor.
https://www.alanzucconi.com/20...r-remote-controller/
MartyE posted:BobbyD posted:Marty, I can see a guy with a one track mainline installing them, though since we'll need the 6-85296 LCS IRV2 interface to use it the costs rise pretty quickly. If you have a double track main with 4 grade crossings that's: Sixteen 6-85383 @ $20 = $320 plus Four 6-85296 @ $ 100 = $400 which gets us to $720 list without any cables if my math is correct. Pricy, even more so for those without many IR equipped engines. And just what will our engineer/operators do if we automate everything?
Actually you only need (8) 6-85383 @ $20 as each IVR2 6-85296 comes with 2 sensor units. Still I see your point. This unit also solves the issue for the American Flyer folks who have been left without a Sensor Track option.
That's my fault Marty, I'd originally estimated it with the grade crossing at a spot crossing 3 tracks and didn't divide out my revised total. Removed them because at 4 track sensors per device and 6 sensors per crossing I'd have had to add an additional interface. I'm sure this will work well for those with a lot of IR pieces.
Again I say this is a cure in search of a disease!
At this point, the cost aside, we do not have enough "stuff" to use this with. Clearly, grade crossings are an obvious use but with many tracks this can get involved.
I have gone toward IR equipped engines to be able to use this but even after reading the catalog descriptions I am still not clear how to use it. . .well.
AlanRail posted:Again I say this is a cure in search of a disease!
At this point, the cost aside, we do not have enough "stuff" to use this with. Clearly, grade crossings are an obvious use but with many tracks this can get involved.
I have gone toward IR equipped engines to be able to use this but even after reading the catalog descriptions I am still not clear how to use it. . .well.
I guess each his own but I see all sorts of uses.
Well, I agree with both Alan and Marty. While I think it's neat technology and I can imagine a lot of uses, there are problems. LCS is severely limited by the fact that unless you're going to go massively in for new Legacy locomotives, you won't get nearly as much utility from it as you should. It really screams for an upgrade kit of some kind so that you can use other locomotives and have the benefits of the LCS system.
Here's our buddy Mark again doing some great stuff in this area. And he's using very inexpensive RFID tech. Which I think if read into the details, you might think why IR may be better -- (the data rates are possibly higher -- he was only able to squeeze 16 bytes across the interfaces but that's all resolvable ultimately i suppose).
betcha it could go to a LCS serial interface, betcha it could...
http://www.silogic.com/trains/RFID.html
And I then just about imagine it's entirely possible to spoof the other engine into the legacy base via the lcs bus via his other "panstamp" tiu interface effort ... just about imagine it.
gunrunnerjohn posted:It really screams for an upgrade kit of some kind so that you can use other locomotives and have the benefits of the LCS system.
I agree 100%. I doubt Lionel will produce it though. Dave said they stopped making the sensor boxcars because of low demand. I can't imagine that would change for a kit. There seems to be a limited demand to do these types of upgrades. We can always hope though. Certainly worth adding to the Legacy questions for Lionel again. Along with the TMCC signal car Mike Reagan spoke of about a week before he resigned.
i had an interest in the box car but it seemed a little high priced. why not just put these things in all the cars and at a modest price increase more reflective of parts costs... which has to be pennies. or certainly not $50.
It's called "profit".
Don't you think though more adopters is more profit ultimately?
MartyE posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:It really screams for an upgrade kit of some kind so that you can use other locomotives and have the benefits of the LCS system.
I agree 100%. I doubt Lionel will produce it though. Dave said they stopped making the sensor boxcars because of low demand. I can't imagine that would change for a kit. There seems to be a limited demand to do these types of upgrades. We can always hope though. Certainly worth adding to the Legacy questions for Lionel again. Along with the TMCC signal car Mike Reagan spoke of about a week before he resigned.
Well that's the thing, low demand is not surprising. I resist buying any rolling stock because of the higher prices of them in general. I did suffer buying the sensor cars because I sensed, that they were going to become scarce.
cjack posted:I did suffer buying the sensor cars because I sensed,
I think the demand is so low because of A) cost and B) no one knows what you can really do with it outside of those that designed the system. Lionel needs to build a layout full of these things to show what potential they have (And build it using the FasTrack modules to promote those too.). And then it needs to tour with the train shows, have videos on YouTube, and articles in the magazines and on the websites their customers go to. It's called marketing, and they have really dropped the ball on the whole LCS system.
If they had IR kits you could add to all your rolling stock I could see it possible for you to pull a train up to a yard feeding a large industrial complex and as soon as it passed over the sensor at the yard lead LCS would take over and break down the train and have a yard engine, or few, deliver all the cars to the correct sidings and spurs while you stand back and watch. When it was done it would have also built up a trains of cars ready for the main that you can now leave with. Is this even possible with LCS? If I understand what I've read about it, yes. Would it be cheap or easy at this stage of the game? Nope. But if Lionel play their cards right and continue to lay the foundation, then the next generation of model railroaders would be able to build these programmable automated layouts with LCS.
The problem with the yard scenario is you need some of the cars to have TMCC controlled couplers. However, since they discontinued all the Mini Commander stuff and there's no replacement, that leave a big hole in the lineup.
I have my doubts about where Lionel is going, they seem to be trying to force people to buy new expensive locomotives and rolling stock, gone are all the upgrade products. Soon the only command upgrades will likely be DCS PS/3.
Yes. Not a good thing to ignore the builders and developers since that’s a major part of the hobby. This hobby could die in a hurry if there’r only $100 box cars and $1500 steamers that go round and round...and round.
I agree with the lack of demo and marketing. Lionel absolutely should be demoing this stuff at York with a working layout. Show me what this can do and what's so cool about it or take it out of the catalog and forget it. Who is going to buy something that has no real explanation of what it does. Especially an explanation that convinces me to spend stupid money on it. BigRail
I don't see any new videos since 2016.
On the issue of sensors, I have several different types of IR and magnetic sensors all over my layout which do all kinds of interesting things that are kind of fun to watch. The most intriguing sensor I've used is the IR proximity sensor which continuously calculates the distance of the train it is pointed at.
