Legacy and Legacy PowerMaster Help

I had that problem when I got my big boy. It was my first legency experience. I tryed setting it up many times and it didn't work so I watch the video and still missed the key part. After you load the module it stores everything, but when it's done you have to press the "set" bottom on the controller.  Otherwise it just lights up and doesn't move. 

have you tried taking a voltmeter to the tracks and output to see what you are getting?

I would also go back through the Powermaster setup directions. Made sure the Program/Run switch is in Run position and perhaps set it to Command mode

I think you have a lot of components in the mix and I am not an electrician or Lionel guru.

I went a much simpler route knowing that complexity gets crazy.

I have a ZW-L transformer connected to a garden variety surge suppressor and the ZW-L connected to my Big Boy's track.  I shove its lever all the way up to 20v which supplies 18.14v out of its post.  I used a True RMS multimeter to check that AC output voltage.

I connected my #990 Legacy 1.54 command base to the base post on the ZW-L with one black wire and plugged the base into the above surge suppressor. 

My Big Boy was set to Eng #1 from the factory and I left it at that.

I loaded its orange memory module into the remote per its manual.

I set Eng1 to 1 and pressed the SET button and that assigned the BB to E1 and the remote to CAB2.

No issues in running the Big Boy.

RickM46

I highly suggest never leaving any engine at ID 1 or trying to use 99. Too much risk of unexpected operation if you go to a club or decide to add a second TMCC/Legacy engine. When TMCC first came out I ran my new engine on the layout at our club. I had left mine set to 1, I powered it up and had 4 engines take off including one that ended up in the turntable pit. And on newer Legacy engines 99 is a Universal ID that is hard coded

I read through your note and it seems like you programmed the powermaster to ID #75, but I did not see any reference to the ID you assigned your locomotive. Out of the box, your big boy will "wake up" when you start sending commands to ENG 1, like a whistle or throttle.

EDIT: Sorry, I see you assigned engine 14 to the locomotive. When setting the ID, the loco must be on a powered-up track, and when the SET button is pressed which completes the operation, you'll hear a short whistle blow. WIthout this confirming whistle sound, it may be that the loco ID has not been changed to 14, but is still at the factory default of 1.

Make sure you have the Cab-2, Id #75 to "XFMR" in the configuration (info button).  You should see the track power come up relative to the bar graph on the Cab-2.

Great info!!

Thanks for the tip, I will reprogram to some other number.

I guess you have to check with your club on what numbers are used before you power up.

RickM46

Jon.... thanks for the response.  I did set ID #75 to "XMFR" in the configuration and scroll process in setting up the Legacy PowerMaster, but after I have addressed ID #75 and then move the boost lever up to power up the track, a bar starts to fill in from left to right on the Cab-2, but as soon as I release the boost lever, the bar graph depletes back to zero.  I assume that is not what is supposed to happen (meaning, I assume when I move the boost lever, the Cab-2 is supposed to show a bar graph that stays Full on the Cab-2 screen)?  Thanks!

Thanks for the response.  I am pretty sure I pressed the Set button after I loaded the module, but as someone mentioned in this thread, I think it wouldn't work in my case as I don't think there is any power to the track yet.  But I will certainly double check.

Chris... thanks for the response.  I don't own a voltmeter, so I may swing by the store to pick one up as that certainly would help narrow in on a culprit.  Also, thanks for your advice below about assigning engine ID's.  I originally made my PowerMaster Engine ID 1, but then I cleared it out and switched it over to Engine 75 when I thought better of it later.  I tried re-installing the Legacy PowerMaster about 5 times last night, but maybe I should go through the instruction manual and try it again.  It really doesn't seem that difficult, but maybe I am doing it wrong.

Thanks for your responses.  I assume that even though I loaded the module, to your point, it might not have completed the operation since I probably don't have power to the track.  Hopefully I can narrow in on the problem soon.

I always use light lockons so I can always tell if I have power to the track

Make sure the terminal track connectors or plugged in correctly. Make sure your A terminnal is going to the center rail and B terminal to the outside rail.   Toggle the powerhouse switch and make sure the breaker is not popped.  You could test your power master with a short pice of wire by touching the A and B posts at the same time. It will spark a bit and  It will trip the ph breaker after the pm folds down the power. Don't do this with your big boy on the track. Spark or tripped breaker means power at posts. 

I would think that you had everything set correctly on the first try.

The Boost move to set the voltage should be a roll up and release. Not holding it. if you have Cab2 sounds on, it should be a roll up, beep and release.

Legacy base on, power master on, powerhouse on, Cab2 on, Eng #75, roll Boost and release. Eng #1, (to check default ID #), any button, horn, should start up.

Are you sure the switch on the powermaster is set to command and not conventional?

Ron

Hi Phil, what a timely post. I am runnng into the same issue

setting up my Legacy, Legacy Power Master and 180 W

Power House. Once I go through the start up sequence

I have no power to the track. The Legacy controller is powered up, thhe power master is

receiving 18 volts from the power house as noted by the

green light on the power master is illuminated but no 

output from the power master to the track. I have another

transformer which I hooked up the the Legacy unit and

everything seems to work well. I think my error is in programing

the power master. I've attempted to go through the programing

steps again, and still no luck. I,m hoping the fix is due to my

inexperience with the Legacy unit(s). 

PRRMike... thanks for the response.  Not sure if I am happy to have someone in the same boat with me, or sad that you are suffering the same frustration.  Hopefully one of us figures out the issue and can help the other one get up and running.  At least you have another transformer to get you by in the meantime.  :-)

Try rotating the red velocity throttle to bring the power up to full.

Are you sure you guys have the switch on the powermaster set to command? Put a lighted caboose on the track and pick the engine and hit boost. If the power on the caboose lights a little and when you let off boost it will do exactly what you're describing. When the powermaster is set in conventional the output voltages starts at zero and goes up with the wheel. When in command mode the voltage starts at 18 volts when the boost, wheel or whistle is used. If it still doesn't work try it with the switch in conventional and see if it starts at 18 volts. Use a lighted caboose as your meter. Once you see that the powermaster is working correctly then move on to the engine. It's jut like eating an elephant. It's easy as long as you eat it one bite at a time.

Ron 

prh2j,

If you are going to buy a digital meter, you may want to get one that is True RMS for reading AC voltage; I bought one and having it is priceless for seeing the voltages out of your power supply and seeing what is actually at various places on your track.

The first one I bought is here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

RickM46

Just some more "process of elimination" :

On occassion some powerstrips/ surge protectors have been known to foul the legacy signal.

One "half" of the legacy signal is transmitted through the ground lug of the base wall plug and "radiated" through the ground wiring in the walls of your train room.

Try plugging the legacy base plug directly into the wall outlet.

If its still  not working, try eliminating the power master by connecting the brick directly to the track.

Lastly, if still nothing, place the tender alone on the track. A lone legacy tender will begin idle steam sounds as soon as the track is powered. If the tender powers up there may be an issue where the loco is not communicating with the tender.

I haven't purchased a voltmeter yet, so thanks for the suggestion!

RickO, thanks for the feedback.  I like the process of elimination approach.  If I were to try to connect my 180W Powerhouse directly to a Fastrack terminal section, is there a plug out there that you are aware of that has a molex connector for the Powerhouse side and some sort of connector to link up to the red and black leads coming out of the Fastrack terminal section?  I've been searching around a bit and have not found anything yet.  I would prefer buying a connector as opposed to trying to make my own or having to cut off the molex connector from my 180W Powerhouse.  Thanks!!!

Lionel sells a connector set.

Lionel power house cable

Just to be sure, did you program the bigboy as engine 14? Or did you simply load the module?

You need to power up the track first, then program the bigboy by putting the run/prgm switch to prgm and pressing ENG 14 - SET. This whistle will blow ( if you have power).

Then you shut down power put the run/prgm switch on RUN, repower the layout address your loco and go.

I believe you must program your loco with an i.d.# first, then load the module.

Heres a video that may help. Lionel has numerous "help videos" which are short making it easy to go back and rewatch.

 You may want to double check your component setup.

Heres a link to all of the videos: Lionel Product Instructional Videos

This cable with spade lugs

You can make your own for peanuts, the AMP connector and pins is less than $1 on Digikey.

Hi Phil, Still working on trying to figure this out.

 I do have a digital voltmeter and the problem is

the power master does not have any power output

as tested across the A and U lugs. I am convinced the

problem is in that I am not programming the

power master correctly or that I am not properly

addressing the power master and or the locomotive

correctly with the Cab 2. I have been able to

set up the locomotive with another transformer so 

I am confident that part of the equation is okay.

Have you been able to set up the VL BB?

I have followed the programing instructions for the

power master as found on  both pages 10 and 11

in the instruction booklet.  Our only difference is that I

assigned the power master a track address instead

of an engine address. 

     So trying to follow the instructions for start up,

 I begin by turning on the legacy unit, press engine

button, imput locomotive ID number, press track key,

imput track ID number for the power master, Turn on the

the Power House 180. Press the engine start up key and get

no indication I have power to the track. I adjust the throttle

control. I do not see the red light on the power master flicker

indicating it is receiving a signal from the Cab 2 controller.

My next idea will be to try and re-program the power master.

I'll keep you updated with how it's going. Mike

PRRMike... thanks for the update.  I was not able to tinker around last night with my layout, but perhaps tonight. As for your situation, you might want to try your process steps in a different order and see if it helps.  Others here on the forum as much more adept at this stuff than I am at the moment, but I think you might have to go somewhat in this order of operation: 

1) Turn on Legacy Base power

2) Turn on 180W Powerhouse (which in turn also turns on the Legacy PowerMaster assuming that you have the 180W Powerhouse molex connector connected to the input on the Legacy PowerMaster)

3) Turn on the Cab-2 remote

4) Address the ID associated with the Legacy PowerMaster in order to get power to the track. Once you select the PowerMaster ID, I believe you move the Boost lever on the Cab-2 up and release to activate the constant 18V of power to the track.

5) Address the ID for your engine on the track and receive a whistle sound confirming that the Cab-2 pairing to the engine has worked correctly

6) Tons of enjoyment!  :-)

As I said, others here can correct me and might solve my own problem in the process, but it makes sense to me that you have to first get track power before you can address the engine with the Cab-2.  Good luck and let me know if it works.   Phil

Turn on Legacy base, Cab2, Powerhouse. Press Trk, enter it's ID#, roll Boost.

Press Eng, enter it's ID#, press bottom left button, or blow horn.

Moonman... thanks for the advice!

Thanks cjack.... I guess I was pretty close with the order of operation then.  I had been turning on Powerhouse before the Cab-2, so I will see if perhaps that might correct my issue.

gunrunnerjohn.... thanks for the advice on the molex connectors.   I may look into it if I don't find another solution first as I would prefer to keep the Legacy PowerMaster as part of my set up.  But if I need to keep ruling things out, I will resort to connecting the Powerhouse directly to the track without the PowerMaster.

RickO.... I thought I programmed the engine ID before I loaded the module, but I guess if I don't have track power it is a moot point anyway.  But I think I am going to take all of the great advice and help I received from everyone here and start all over from scratch and go through the steps again.  I really think it might be an issue with programming the wireless Legacy PowerMaster and getting it to send power to the track.  I have watched a lot of videos, but I haven't really been able to find one where someone is setting up the Legacy PowerMaster in a similar configuration as mine.  Most of the videos are for the older PowerMasters (or bridges) and the TMCC 300/400's.

Thanks for starting this thread.  I am following it closely. I have just set up my 990 and programmed my first legacy engine, all works but I hve powermasters coming that I want to add for the breakers and so I can run conventional with the cab2.  I sure am hoping you are able to make it work so, I can learn how it is done. 

Phil,

   Let me give you a completely different option for running in the conventional mode.

I do not use the Power Master, I run DCS and Legacy at the same time, and when I want to run in the Conventional mode I use the TR TIU or TR Z4k mode, via the DCS.  So far I have not needed the Power Master at all, and everything runs perfectly.

PCRR/Dave

Its really not that complicated, I'm using a TPC unit which is the same concept. The transformer plugs into the powermaster and then you connect hot and common wires out from the powermaster to the track. The legacy powermaster replaces the TPC unit.

The powermaster programs just like a locomotive. You set the prgrm switch and give it an id# then put it back to run.

I use TR1 for my TPC unit with legacy and it works like a charm.I can toggle back and forth even run command and conventional at the same time, as well as running MTH locos conventionally.

This is why I suggested prh2j try plugging the legacy base directly into the wall and omit the surge protector to see if its a base issue.

The legacy powermaster gets its programming through the "air" just like a locomotive.

If prh2j's legacy base is not getting the signal out correctly nothing will work, powermaster, or locomotive.

The locomotive cannot be programmed with an id# without power, or the base functioning correctly.

Somewhere theres is a hookup or programming issue prh2j needs to retrace his steps and see if everything is correct.

Is the legacy base and handheld on the same channel?

Fantastic news and thanks to everyone who provided excellent advice.  After trying and trying and trying to start from scratch and re-program the Legacy PowerMaster, plug the power supply and Legacy base directly into the wall outlet (as opposed to through the surge protector), and redo the connections from the Fastrack terminal track pieces to the Legacy PowerMaster and Legacy base respectively, it turns out my issue was a very simple one to fix.  Somehow, one of the wire connections underneath the Fastrack terminal section had come loose and was not connected.  No wonder I wasn't getting power to the track.  As soon as I reconnected the wire underneath the Fastrack terminal section, I started the set up process from scratch, and like magic, everything works perfectly now.  Amazing how that happens, huh?  At any rate, I do appreciate everyone's help, and hopefully somewhere down the road I will have some advice to offer back to the community.  Thanks again for the help!!!!

Phil

Make sure the connection is nice and tight. A little resistance there can heat up.

Ha - been there, done that.

I have had many Homer Simpson DOHs!!

Glad you are cookin,

RickM46

PS: The most transcendental is pouring over a bunch of code all day trying to figure out why said program is not working and, then, in my dreams, seeing the bad line of code.  Ya, I know, get a life.