Legacy plus DCS

Both systems will run side-by side without interconnecting the control boxes. Just hook 'em both to the track as if the other wasn't there.

You wouldn't be able to run MTH from a Legacy/TMCC remote even if you did connect the control boxes though, since only the TMCC control codes were made public (and is the sole reason you can operate a TMCC Command Base from a connected DCS system). MTH's DCS control codes (as well as the Legacy extensions to TMCC) remain proprietary.

---PCJ

Actually, the Legacy codes are now released, but only if you interface through an LCS component.

so I connect to power on Z 4000 (that also powers Legacy)  and to existing lockon on  layout and I am good to go

You can run that way, just connect the TIU output directly to the track and run in passive mode.

There are some benefits to wiring the TIU into the power source, you get conventional operation from the DCS remote, and the emergency stop button on the DCS remote actually removes all track power.

For some reason I cannot download the manual for the DCS system.

Anyone know if it comes with the manual when you buy it??

All of mine came with a manual, but I just downloaded the current manual from this page: http://www.mthtrains.com/content/50-1003

OK reviewed manual. My layout is 30ft x 14ft Realtrax I have 24 isolated sidings,28 switches all of the sidings have Engines with freight or passenger consists.Only (4) sidings have PS3 engines The rest are Legacy or TMCC.If I read the manual correctly

for DCS to work with my PS 3 Engines those (4) sidings will need to be connected to the TIU as well as the main line because the rails are not solid between the siding and the mainline.Am I correct????Also my mainline has a lock on every 8 ft wired in series from the transformer in each direction(transformer is in center of layout)Is this also a problem?Also would I need a second switch between the TIU and the isolated siding??

Bill,

If I read the manual correctly for DCS to work with my PS 3 Engines those (4) sidings will need to be connected to the TIU as well as the main line because the rails are not solid between the siding and the mainline.Am I correct?

Yes, you need the TIU connected to any and all tracks upon which you desire to operate any PS2 or PS3 engines.

Also my mainline has a lock on every 8 ft wired in series from the transformer in each direction(transformer is in center of layout)Is this also a problem?

This very well could be a problem.

DCS works best when you wire tracks using a star, or home run, method with only one connection between the TIU output and each block. Each block should also have its center rail insulated from center rails of adjacent blocks.

Your method of wiring may result in signal strength degradation and/or poor operation.

Also would I need a second switch between the TIU and the isolated siding??

Yes, if you want to be able to turn off siding power independently of the mainline.

From the nature of your questions, I strongly suggest that you invest in a copy of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

sounds like DCS is not for me thats a huge rewiring problem for me

This is very interesting. I currently have my Legacy base connected to the TIU. Everything I have seen and read, especially from Barry's very well written book, lead me to believe that the only way to operate Legacy and DCS is to run the Legacy/TMCC base through the TIU.

But it appears that one can hook up DCS direct to the layout as stated by Barry, and wire the Legacy/TMCC base direct as well, by passing the TIU. 

I do have both MTH and TMCC/Legacy engines. Each has it's unique features. But using my Legacy remote through my TIU, some of the features are not available.

I thought about having a toggle switch between the 2 systems so that I can select either one, but from what I am reading here, that is not necessary???

I wonder and worry about having 2 power supplies feeding the layout, one for the TIU the other for Legacy. Can both be on at the same time, or must it be set up that only one power supply can be operational at anyone time???

Or can one Power Supply feed both systems, and still be set up independed of each other???

I would be interested in seeing a diagram showing how the 2 systems can be wired independent of each other and how to select each system.

Thanks

Ray,

I would be interested in seeing a diagram showing how the 2 systems can be wired independent of each other and how to select each system.

Both systèmes can be connected to the same tracks, using the same power supplies, at the same time. Each is so different from the other in its method of signaling that they coexist very well together.

The OP's issue is the fact that he's wired in a way that is very different from what is suggested for DCS. He isn't block wired for either home runs or a buss.

Further, and what could be the larger issue, is his statement that he "...has a lock on every 8 ft wired in series from the transformer in each direction...". I've seen something very similar before and it was,  indeed, an issue.

On the other hand, he could just hook up DCS and be pleasantly surprised.

This is a good thread for me. I have questions about this as well.

FWIW I have a small layout with multiple blocks that is more or less bus wired. DCS runs pretty much flawlessly. I also have a Cab 1L base+remote that I use to run Legacy and TMCC. Both systems coexist nicely. I don't like using two remotes though and much prefer the DCS remote to the Cab 1L. So, per Barry's book and other resources, I am purchasing a MTH 50-1032 cable to the connect the Cab 1L Base to the TIU. And that's pretty much it I would think. Then use the DCS remote to add my TMCC engine and Legacy engine and run. Really looking forward to DCS thumbwheel speed control instead of that red radio dial thing on the Cab 1L remote.

Bill:

Try just making blocks without rewiring, it has a decent chance of working that way.

Your layout is large enough that DCS will have major problems if you do not make blocks.

If your track is all ballasted and can't come up to pull pins, a cut off wheel in a dremel can slot the middle rail and make blocks that way.

Reason: DCS works by sending a set of digital pulses on the center rail, the engine reads them and responds. If the TIU gets no response it repeats the signal.

Now, if you have no blocks the signal goes to the track at every lockon, then it goes both ways down the track from every lockon, these signals will then run into the signal coming the other way from the next lockon in  a few feet. They are then garbled as they pass thru each other. Now, your lockon every 6 feet means many many copies of the signal are running around and crossing, Bedlam results.

Lionel systems use radio to the engine and get ground from the track, no multiple signals and no crossing, so no problem with loops of track and lots of lockons.

The MTH system has the advantage of verifying the engine got the signal and it can read back data from the engine such as Hours powered up, Odometer, Trip Odomometer, Signal Strength, Track Voltage, Ect. Lionel cannot track this data.

Scott:

Yes, you can run TMCC with the DCS remote and I do it.

Limits Exist:

No Legacy commands, Even Legacy engines only do the TMCC subset of the control this way.

Admittedly I prefer the DCS 1 Scale MPH steps to the Lionel steps in speed.

However; DCS does not control TMCC in real Scale MPH, it often does give you more steps in speed control.

To Everyone using DCS:

Get Barry's book for DCS, it is the most complete source for DCS that exists.

Thanks Russell. My hope is that I would be able to add both TMCC and Legacy engines to the DCS remote and at least have them respond to bell, whistle, coupler fire and other primary push button commands. Will read Barry's book a little more. Will know for sure when I get the cable and connect to the TIU.