LIONEL 18062 SANTA FE WARHORSE

I don't have one, but I remember one of the club members running it several years ago.  Seemed to operate fine, it has an AC Pullmor motor, magnetraction, TMCC/Railsounds as you've already indicated and wireless tether.  I recall the smoke output was anemic as was the case with many pre-Legacy engines.  In regards to full scale, yes it is, but apart from the wheel configuration it's nowhere close to looking like an actual Santa Fe-type Hudson; it's just a NYC Hudson with Santa Fe lettering.  Detail-wise, it's pretty much a clone of the 773 except for the aforementioned ATSF lettering and Scullen-type drivers.  Details are predominantly cast-in instead of separately applied, so it's not as intricately detailed as the prewar 700E or the 1990s and Legacy remakes.

I have one which I bought new when it first came out and would give it a much more positive review. Since getting it, it has always been one of my favorite engines.

The sound is fantastic and rivals some of the newer stuff coming out today. The smoke level is fine. It even emits smoke from the sides/bottom of the loco under the front of the boiler. First time it happened, I thought the darn thing was on fire.

As far as running, it runs fine and I have never had any problems.

I have the set and love it. BEST WHISTLE OF ALL TIME! The smoke output is pretty good, I slightly modified my smoke unit, and use Lionel's premium fluid. Its great locomotive! The diecast tender really amplifies the sound (like other Lionel Steamers with diecast tender shells) Its a great set if you can find one for a decent price. The engine runs very smooth and quiet, and yes its the AC Pullmor Hudson type motor. Proper lubrication and maintenance on these motors will make them quiet and run forever.

My set wasnt weathered all that much. I got lucky with this set, and my other 2 warhorse sets, the engines werent heavily weathered at all.

Let us know if you decide to pick one up!

I too must say it is one of my "ALL TIME FAVORITES". I know, It's not a true Santa Fe style hudson however, you forget all about that the first time you blow that whistle!!   

 I am fortunate to have many loc's fro all modern era's. This one will stack up to any from whenever. I have had it from "NEW' and is always reliable, and again, blow that whistle and your in for a boatload of compliments if your entertaing any train buddies.

 Get one and enjoy!

          ................................Dan

Mike,

I don't have The Warhorse Hudson. I do have the 18056 NYC Hudson w/the Vanderbuilt Tender. Which came out in '96. They are the same except for the tenders and the NYC is a scale loco. (We all know a Vandy tender was never paired with a NYC Hudson.) They both have the same running gear. The Santa fe is a copy of the old 773 with different wheels. That being said, It is by far one of my favorites.

It didn't run that well when new. The running gear was very tight. However, I kept running it and kept it well lubed. After it broke in it has turned out to be a great runner even with the Pul-mor motor. The sound is great, it smokes out of the stack and cylinders as well. It's a great engine.

Let us know if you get one. I was always sorry I didn't get that set when it came out.

Hope this info helps,

Mike R

Mike,

 I also have the NYC Hudson with the Vanderbuilt tender. I have NEVER gotten that one to run right. Cant get out of its own way. cant make it around 072 curves with no cars at all behind it. Have tried everything. I was told they have 21 volt motors in them. Most have 16volt motors. If you diconnect the boards from the motor (run the motor like a conventional engine right off the roller) it runs much better. Still doesnt see enough voltage but it does run better. Funny, they put a correct motor in the Santa Fe Warhorse but not this one. if you do run off the rollers you lose all sound and command. Not a good trade off.

........................................Dan

Dan,

Sorry to hear that. I run mine with a Cab-1 now a Cab-2. I always kept track voltage around 17-18 volts on a postwar ZW. I always put grease in the gear box and lubed the driveshaft and motor. Kept running it and it eventually started running very smoothly.

I had the 4 heavyweight cars on it and it ran around 0-54 no problem. When I got the two add on cars it wouldn't pull all six of them around 0-54. However it did pull them around 0-72. Now it pulls fine, no matter whats behind it.

Keep it lubed well and run the wheels off it.

Mike R 

Ps... I never put the grooved wheels with the rubber tires on it.

I had the Warhouse Santa Fe set at one time, and read a lot about it. The positive comments above reflect both my experience and what I read.

Sometimes a certain engine, for whatever reason, just excels. By all accounts, the Warhorse Hudson had some of the best sounds to date, and which continue to rank with the best available. It was also considered an outstanding runner, once it was broken it a little.

Some folks today don't know that the Pullmor motors are stiff when new, and the longer you run them, the better they are. After properly broken in, they'll run like tops. They'll normally run better after two months than they do after a month, and even better as time goes on.

I'm glad Mike has had good luck with his, but the general consensus was in keeping with Dan's experience, that the Vandy Hudson was a problematic engine. 

I bought the Warhorse set and also got the add on box car.  It is now setting on my layout ready for it's next run.  The above comments are correct and nothing of the new stuff beats whistle and bell sounds.  It has many miles on it and I expect I am going to get many more.  It is a tinplate engine but on this forum it is a perfect fit.

Al

I also have one with the vanderbuilt tender and have experienced the poor operating performance.

I am just completing the final installation steps for a Timko can motor conversion...should have it running in a couple days.

Will the Railsounds and TMCC still work with the Can Motor???

Yes, they are suppose to because they will still be drawing AC current into the sound board. The can motor is run by 1/2 wave DC current converted by a diode connected to the LCRU (Lionel Control Receiver Unit). I'll soon find out!!!

John:

Thanks. Well said. That really helped.

Mike

Dallas/Fort Worth Lone Star Hi-Railers

Rockyroad,

Please keep us posted on your progress. Also looking forward to a video when your done.

Just throwing out a hint. LOL!!

Mike R

I have the warhorse set as well and the above comments are right on the money about this set. The bell is excellent and the whistle is the best of the best!

Personally, I'd find the inputs of the people who actually own and run the engine more useful, but whatever.

If you want to look at the engine and answer some of your questions, why don't you simply go to the Bay and do so? There are descriptions posted there and a number of nice pictures of those for sale. Worth a thousand words, they say.

Here is my Warhorse for the benefit of those who have not seen one.

Al

Al:

That is the best shot of a Santa Fe Warhorse that I have seen. And I have looked all over the internet and I have the original Lionel catalog. That really helped.

Thanks!

Mike

You are welcome Mike.  This is my first post of a pic and it turned out pretty good.

Al 

I have an extra add-on boxcar for this set, in case any set owner needs one to complete his set.

wasn't there a set of replacement drives available for this from Lionel?

 VidKidz, are you talking about a extra set of driver's.  My set has a extra set of drivers.

Al

Fellow Train Enthusiasts:

I have one more question regarding the Lionle Santa Fe War Horse...is is full "Scale" like the other famous Lionle Scale Husdons, is it a "baby Husdaon", or something in the middle? 

I don;t see any references to "scale" so I have to assume it is not.

Mike

It's basically an upgraded 773 Hudson. Scale sized, but lacking some details.

photo: www.liveauctioneers.com

Rusty

Interesting - a followup question after almost 5 months!

All of my Pullmor powered engines seem to share that trait - an operating characteristic different from can motors. 

Has anyone gotten the Frank Timko upgrade to can motor and cruise on this engine?

I put a Timko can motor and a Electric Railroad Cruise Commander in my NYC Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson. It's the same chassis and running gear. That conversion turned it from a major dog into a really sweet runner.

I suspect that attempting to use the original LCRU and a diode to run the motor half wave would not work out nearly as well as a Cruise Commander.

I was just looking at the SF Warhorse set. I have the set of box cars (El Capitan, Super Chief, Grand Canyon Line, and Texas Chief)  and an extra car (The Chief) with plastic under frames and die cast trucks.

And also three cars (El Capitan, Super Chief, and The Chief) and the caboose with the die cast under frames with die cast trucks.

I've always wondered how they came...die cast under frames or plastic or both?

Interesting comments about the engine...makes me want one. I think I like the spoke wheels best. The 1997 catalog I have shows spokes on the 11838 set. They came both ways, or with two sets of drivers?

The Scullen disc drivers where installed from the factory but the catalog picture has the spoke drives. Lionel then offered buyer the spoke drives for those people wishing to change them. I would like that the locomotive would look alot better if the drives where actual spoked and not casted. I must say that my father has this set and I'm amazed that the whistle is one of the best feature to the locomotive even if the railsounds is 2.5!!

Surprised that no one has pointed out that the 18062's tender isn't scale. The engine is scale-size, but the tender is the medium sized 2426-type tender used on the prewar 226e and postwar 726 Berkshires. It's noticeably smaller than the 700T tenders on the 700e and the reissues.

I also noticed that the Command-equipped Hudsons as time went on smoked better than the conventional Hudsons from previous years, is that true?

Agree on the real spokes...thought that too. The catalog picture looked better than the actual drivers since they took the picture at such an angle that you could not see that it was solid between the spokes.

Hey guys, I am a proud new owner of this beautiful set! This ol' steamer is like a haunted ghost train! Much better than my PWC 736 from 2006 which has lame railsounds and small wheels that only go hyper-fast. I got the Warhorse set off eBay new and sealed for $550 shipped and added a 6-16747 Breyer Horse Transport Car in front of the caboose and the color matches well enough.

This my first TMCC locomotive and I could use some advice. It was a gift to the family (and myself) to upgrade from our old post war trains. Everyone gathered around the layout excitedly and when I gave it a go, it was frozen, and we were worried that it was defective. I didn't realize I should have lubed it first, considering that it had been in a box for 17 years. I just gave it full power, crossed my fingers and after about 20 seconds, it started to heat up and slowly break free and everyone was relieved. I ran it for a bunch of laps and after seeing how sluggish it was, I knew then to give it a good lubing. I was advised to use Labelle 107 over Lionel oil and it seems like good stuff. I just hope I didn't do any damage with that initial unfreezing and run time. First question: How would I know if I caused any damage?

Since then I have given it a few more lube jobs and it runs noticeably smoother and faster. It must have been as dry as a bone! It doesn't have the Odyssey system but I can do a pretty realistic slow acceleration with some careful throttling. As long as I keep the track and wheels clean, it runs like a rhino! But I have yet to see the smoke blow out from under the shell like one reviewer claimed.

The ongoing issue that I'm having with it is that sometimes I can hear the motor buzzing and straining at the threshhold and it becomes stubborn like a mule. When it's running like this, it will stall on curves at a slow speed. I've lubed it and tinkered with it numerous times and this only seems to help for a while. It's like it just keeps eating up the oil. Truthfully, my post war engines didn't require so much work!

Any advice on these issues would be greatly appreciated! 

Take the unit apart and inspect it if you can, sounds like it just may be clogged and need a good cleaning.

Here is the schematic for the loco.

http://www.lionel.com/Customer...p;resultsPerPage=250

I took mine apart and drilled a slightly larger hole in the chamber. It smokes pretty good.

I removed the oilite friction bushings and thrust bearing and washers and rebuilt the motor with ball bearings. The ball bearings greatly reduces the internal friction of the motor and eliminates the "coffee grinder" sound. 

My Warhorse Hudson took roughly 80-100 hours of operation to break in. Initially it would not coast and stopped on a dime. Today, it will coast about three feet.

I have never operated the locomotive with the smoke on, I did not realize it smoked from other parts of the locomotive other than the stack. 

WBC, where did you get the ball bearings? What size?

Sounds like a good idea

In the brushplate there are two ball bearings, which is probably over kill considering the ratings on the bearings. The inner one is flanged and is 0.125 id x 0.2500 od x 0.0930 width. The outer is 0.1250 id x 0.2500 od x 0.0930 width. This requires the brush plate to be drilled and the bore must be centered and straight. On the vertical motors (623, 2028, 2331 and such) I use just one of the ball bearings.

I have tried a couple of different methods in the cast metal housing. I have used a 5 mm x 11 mm x 4 mm metric ball bearing. 5 mm equals 0.19685 which is close to the ~0.1875 shaft size. 11 mm fits into cast metal housing bore perfectly. I used some ultra thin heat shrink tubing to shore up the shaft size.  Often I find there is a lot of slop in modern Lionel's dimensions and I have worked with shafts that actually fit the 5 mm size very well and other times less so.

The other method require the cast metal housing to be drilled. I used a 0.1875 id x 0.5000 od x 0.1562 width ball bearing. Unfortunately I have not found an outer dimension of 0.4331 or 0.4375; thus the 0.5000. I drilled out the cast metal housing with a 33/64 inch bore to the depth of the ball bearing. This bore has to be centered and straight.

Both the 5mm x 11 mm and the 0.1875 x 0.5000 ball bearings are beefy and support the motor quite well. All ball bearings are prepacked with grease and do not require lube for very long periods of time and are very low friction.

I bought the bearings from Boca Bearings, an outfit that handles a lot of miniature bearings for R/C.