I have to give some credit to lionel in attempting to sell a "yellow kid" passenger starter set. I hope this will eventually be made in the premier line!
Pre-order complete through Mr. Muffins. Both ES44 BNSF units and the New York Central Pacemaker set with the station sounds diner car. I’m recently married so I guess now it’s time when my wife finds out the real cost of model railroading.
At the risk of nauseating some of you, I like the Bi-Polars in NYC, New Haven and Great Northern, as well as the tinplate version. Not buying all four, clearly, but one or two might be tempting. Like the Promontory set too, as well as the NYC J's. I'm a big fan of Lionel doing all sorts of weird Halloween, Christmas and stuff like the Hot Wheels set. Not for me, but because they are cool and appeal to many people. It's nice to see them constantly evolving the technology as evidenced in LC 2.0. Thomas is still under $200, and will be available for significantly less at many dealers, if history is any guide. Hard to beat that for value and interest for the smaller children. And the LC sets still come with a remote. No smart device required unless you want to use it. I think this is one of the best catalogs of the modern era in terms of variety and innovation. I'm sure my interest in the NYC and GN has something to do with that assessment 
.
Landsteiner posted:At the risk of nauseating some of you, I like the Bi-Polars in NYC, New Haven and Great Northern, as well as the tinplate version. Not buying all four, clearly, but one or two might be tempting. Like the Promontory set too, as well as the NYC J's. I'm a big fan of Lionel doing all sorts of weird Halloween, Christmas and stuff like the Hot Wheels set. Not for me, but because they are cool and appeal to many people. It's nice to see them constantly evolving the technology as evidenced in LC 2.0. Thomas is still under $200, and will be available for significantly less at many dealers, if history is any guide. Hard to beat that for value and interest for the smaller children. And the LC sets still come with a remote. No smart device required unless you want to use it. I think this is one of the best catalogs of the modern era in terms of variety and innovation.
"I'm a big fan of Lionel doing all sorts of weird..."
I am also a fan of the unusual and odd, currently have the RS-11 "bat wing" on order from Lionel's previous catalog, definitely going to order the fantasy "49er," very art deco.
"risk of nauseating..."
I always keep a bottle of "Pepto" near me during new catalog presentations, just in case.
Gilly@N&W posted:J Daddy posted:This is one BIG and EXPENSIVE Catalog!!
Here are some highlights I saw:
Now here is DIAMOND in the rough! A North Coast Limited Dome Car? Is this something that IS to come?
I am ordering the 2 pack... just to get this car!!!!
I'd like to get just the FEC car if you'd be willing to go 50/50 on the purchase. My email is in my profile if you're interested.
Sounds great. I will put the order in
This is one of the better model train catalogs of any era - maybe the best. Lionel has done a tour de force. The ball is going out of the ballpark. (Add superlative cliche here... )
The Bi-Polar "tinplate" set is a must as is the Promontory set + the box cars. LionChief expands & Legacy is served. LionMaster is back. I'm also a big fan of the unusual ... but I also like the scale trains. The only disappointment is that the Halloween series doesn't have much new product. Prices for entry sets remain affordable as well as interesting / innovative in order to bring more people into the hobby. Good for Lionel. 
I'm in for about $12,700 on this catalog (and that's at "major" dealer prices).
Oh, wait.
I can't spend that much. Time to do some more evaluation of what I need for the new layout. 
prrhorseshoecurve posted:BobbyD posted:J Daddy posted:So as my wallet continues to bleed green ink ... How about this....!
Nice FA sets. I like the way you can 'Build your Own' with multiple B units, powered or un powered. but can we get sound in these please? What happened to the super bass option?
Need sound in all the units, or at the very least the powered ones! Hoping the MP units are not silver.
I believe if you read the description, there is a powered b unit and a superbass unpowered b unit. The powered units will have legacy and sound.
According to the catalog I have only the lead powered FA will have sound, neither the other powered A unit nor the powered FB will have sound.
"The lead unit is equipped with our Legacy Railsounds"
I do give them credit for dropping the hideously long rear couplers.
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Norm Charbonneau posted:I always like checking out Norton’s NYC models and agree with having some other options for the markers. I hope there is some more info forthcoming on the Hudsons before I order. Leaning toward the in-service one with the Scullins.
Hi Norm,
I've always admire your layouts. You do great work and I especially admire your weathering.
I agree that options as far as the class lights would be a great thing. Lionel put the J3a out both ways in 2002. I bought both. Both are correct, neither is wrong or a mistake. With the lights it's just not "as built" and being used in secondary service. My point is that this catalog shows all five versions with the class lights and, therefore, Lionel has the responsibility to those who pre-order to deliver what was advertised. Nothing says they can't put another version in Volume 2 without class lights.
They need to stop delivering items that look different than what they advertise, like the silver smoke box Niagara with white walls and blackened drivers. My jaw dropped when I opened mine. If all 5 J3a's were cataloged without class lights that would be fine too. These are expensive items and they need to deliver them as advertised.
Gweedo posted:NYC Fan posted:RickO posted:As far as the Hudson goes. Class Lights or no class lights, I am far more concerned with ( worried about) Lionel using that bright silver paint on the smokebox and/or leaving the cast parting line down the length of the whole shell like the H10.
I have emailed Dave "politely" with my concerns.
I agree!
Me too! Well the Hudson I like the best so far is the one in the set.
I really am not liking the white walls and the shiny silver boiler front. I think I'm going with the set as well. Is the tender slightly longer than the normal two?
I really have taken back what I thought I'd be ordering and scaled down. After looking through the Hudson's some, not liking the wheels on the water scoop ones.
I'm still thinking on the PRR Texas, but I think I am decided on the Cavalier, just have to look at the J's yet.
Diesels I may look at, but I am a big steamhead. I will look at it though as it has been over 13 years I think since my last diesel.
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I really am not liking the white walls and the shiny silver boiler front. I think I'm going with the set as well. Is the tender slightly longer than the normal two?
I don't get how Lionel gets so close and then trips. 5405 didn't appear to have a "bright" smokebox in the original photos:
For reference, prototype 5433 seems to have more of a matte grey smokebox. This looks like the smokebox gray Lionel emulated in the catalog. If they actually used THIS color at least it was acurrate on SOME hudsons:
The set locomotive however looks pretty spot on. Polished cylinder caps, bright rods and boxpoks:
If they painted all of them all black I don't think anyone would complain. You would think it would even make production a bit easier.
I still think Lionel must have had a 55 gallon drum of silver leftover from the ESE hudsons. I hope they finished it on the Niagaras and h10.
There’s a lot of really cool stuff in this book. I’ve been waiting for the Pennsy 2-10-4’s to return, I’m in for one. I’m also going to order a Hudson, just not sure which one. Not a fan of the white walls version, but I do like the pacemaker set. I also like the pt tenders having the track pan water scoop effect. The NY & penna shay with the matching logging cars is great too.
In the world of diesels I’ll be ordering the Long Island C420 and the grey and blue FA. Not sure about the cars yet. Some other really cool eye catching highlights for me are the Erie mining ore Jenny set, the new haven bi-polar, the defense special heavyweights, and the Santa Fe, gold bonnet set & passenger cars.
For rolling stock I’ll be getting 2 of the sounds boxcars & the REACbaggage cars. I may go in for a penn central too.
RickO posted:Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I really am not liking the white walls and the shiny silver boiler front. I think I'm going with the set as well. Is the tender slightly longer than the normal two?
I don't get how Lionel gets so close and then trips. 5405 didn't appear to have a "bright" smokebox in the original photos:
I wonder if they just used paint for the photo? Paint would have burned off quickly to be replaced with graphite.
Dave said he would be checking this thread so maybe word will come out about some changes.
Pete
The new Santa Fe streamlined passenger cars are nice. If you buy all 7 the retail is about $1700.00. When I bought the WB F-3's last year I heard GGFD was doing pre-reservation for an 8 car set in the same price range. The pre-reservations are on the GGD site. For almost the same money I think I will go that direction because of the reviews I've seen. I think they can come close to duplicate the Railsounds in the dome car by Lionel.
Norton posted:I wonder if they just use paint for the photo? Paint would have burned off quickly to be replaced with graphite.
Dave said he would be checking this thread so maybe word will come out about some changes.
Pete
Hmmm, excellent point Pete!
If they do paint 5405 with a bright smokebox at least it would be easy to repaint it black. Repainting a lighter gray/graphite would take a little more effort with the masking required. Not looking forward to repainting my Niagara.
Pete
Not buying anything until I hear from Lionel about getting an RA number for my ongoing repair.....such a shame.
Looking at the area at the very top of the front ladder, notice how the pipe from the steam chest enters through a hole in the sheet metal. This appears to be a "sheathed smokebox". In which case the sheet metal is not going to get hot enough to burn any paint off.
RickO posted:Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I really am not liking the white walls and the shiny silver boiler front. I think I'm going with the set as well. Is the tender slightly longer than the normal two?
I don't get how Lionel gets so close and then trips. 5405 didn't appear to have a "bright" smokebox in the original photos:
For reference, prototype 5433 seems to have more of a matte grey smokebox. This looks like the smokebox gray Lionel emulated in the catalog. If they actually used THIS color at least it was acurrate on SOME hudsons:
The set locomotive however looks pretty spot on. Polished cylinder caps, bright rods and boxpoks:
If they painted all of them all black I don't think anyone would complain. You would think it would even make production a bit easier.
I still think Lionel must have had a 55 gallon drum of silver leftover from the ESE hudsons. I hope they finished it on the Niagaras and h10.
I was very glad not to see the full Greg non-prototypical Hudson among any offerings. I do wish that some of the other versions didn't have that evil silver finish. I would like another one, but I will settle for the set and hopefully they don't wait another 20 years or whatever its been to offer Hudson's again.
I do hope Dave does pop in to comment on stuff, granted it may take him a while to compile a list of stuff to address, and hopefully he won't have to do it over and over again.
I am rather curious to how long Lionel had this sitting in the curtains waiting to give the go ahead. I doubt whether my suggestion from 2017's fall York was what got this in motion(as I think they already had it in the works), but who knows. That's almost like how many beans are in the jellybean jar.
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I am rather curious to how long Lionel had this sitting in the curtains waiting to give the go ahead. I doubt whether my suggestion from 2017's fall York was what got this in motion(as I think they already had it in the works), but who knows. That's almost like how many beans are in the jellybean jar.
I'd like to take a little credit. Starting back in 2011. I've made a request every year since ,both to Lionel and on the forum.
https://ogrforum.com/...-a-legacy-j3a-please
RickO posted:Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I am rather curious to how long Lionel had this sitting in the curtains waiting to give the go ahead. I doubt whether my suggestion from 2017's fall York was what got this in motion(as I think they already had it in the works), but who knows. That's almost like how many beans are in the jellybean jar.
I'd like to take a little credit. Starting back in 2011. I've made a request every year since ,both to Lionel and on the forum.
I've been requesting the J3a since they introduced the Legacy System around 2006.
Definitely in for a NYC J3A. This is a really good catalog!
NYC Fan posted:RickO posted:Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I am rather curious to how long Lionel had this sitting in the curtains waiting to give the go ahead. I doubt whether my suggestion from 2017's fall York was what got this in motion(as I think they already had it in the works), but who knows. That's almost like how many beans are in the jellybean jar.
I'd like to take a little credit. Starting back in 2011. I've made a request every year since ,both to Lionel and on the forum.
I've been requesting the J3a since they introduced the Legacy System around 2006.
I'll give you both the credit. I think Rick, Norton and I have bounced around Hudson's on quite a few topics since I've joined, and I'm sure that there's been plenty more bouncing beforehand, so a big thank you from me.
I do know that I talked to Dave about them almost as much as I talked with Ryan(and I did pop them at him this past October). So, the big question I have now is, does this lay the track from some Royal Hudson's from Canadian steam? That is something that I would really like to see, and I'm sure that if they do it, and do it right there won't be many complaints. It would be great if they did.
Hmm, it looks like there is no observation for the Cavalier passenger cars, was that the way it was?
Skip, thanks man! In regards to the markers, Al Stauffer thought their removal was to the detriment of the Hudson's looks.
In any case, it would be nice to get bigger pilot wheels and traction tires on the rear drivers.
I am IN for the PEZ car!! My wife is a PEZ Candy dispenser collector. Thank goodness they are inexpensive and don't take up all my train space!!! She is very tolerant of my expensive and space absorbing hobby!!
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I'm glad that there isn't any BUZZ about this catalog! LOL I like the PEZZ car too! Both of them! Lots of good stuff in it! I will be getting 2 engines and maybe 12 box cars.. WOO HOO .. Maybe 3 engines. Have to get me a hard copy of the catalog... just to have it.. May be the best catalog I've ever seen!
Jim
I really like the catalog, lots of nice looking items. One general note, however, is why don't more Legacy equipped locomotives end with even numbers? Just a pet-peeve of mine that all my Legacy engines end in an odd digit.
The 2-10-4s are nice, really like the C&O and the Buy War Bonds (KCS)
Hudsons look sharp with the normal style tender, just wish there was one with Boxpok drivers and polished side rods, everything else black (no polished cylinder heads), but still very nice.
FA sets are cool, like that they are both powered.
Bi-Polars are nice, and the State Set looks beautiful!
Defense Special cars are very nice, but too expensive for a two-pack.
I can say for certain that I will be getting the three WWII commemorative boxcars, since I already have six of them. I wish the "Wings of Angels" featured actual nose art and not pictures, but maybe nose art is coming soon to the existing WWII commemorative line. It would also be nice if they did a Hiroshima/Nagasaki car and an Italian/Sicily car in that series (Italy since that is where my grandfather fought).
Maybe with LC+ 2.0, Lionel will do some postwar-celebration engines. If the 726 they put out a year or two ago in LC+ could have been run with my Legacy, I would have bought.
The Traditional O gauge Grand Trunk Western auto carriers have the flat car graphics close, but not quite right. The most obvious mistake is that the GTW auto carrier flat cars have cars in the 504000-504999 numbers series. That is a 6 digit number. They have a 5 digit number on the flat cars.
Do we have to buy decals from MicroScale or Highball Graphics to make the flat car letters and numbers correct?
The Traditional O gauge auto carriers are show on JOURNAL bearing trucks while the O gauge Maxi-Stack cars have the correct ROLLER bearing trucks. Why do the auto carriers have the pre-1960 Journal bearing trucks?
Andrew
Falcon Service
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Apples n oranges.
Traditional toys, thing of the past, not worth the effort to spend time and money on incorrect items.
Put you skills and crafts into real O scale items and leave the toys as they were intended to be.
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Hmm, it looks like there is no observation for the Cavalier passenger cars, was that the way it was?
That was the way it was...no observation. The Cavalier was the stop everywhere passenger train and it carried a lot of "head end" cars, i.e. baggage, mail, express. Many times many more head end cars than passenger cars.
As a matter of fact, nationwide there were many more trains without observations than there were with.
i want up 844 to be made
Hi David, thanks for the reply. I have been involved in these legal actions for about a decade. In almost all cases the merchant is initially reluctant to admit they are a place of public accommodation and then eventually settles out of court when they start to loose the suit. Typically, they make their sites accessible and pay the legal fees of the plaintiffs (ACB, NFB, etc). Now to keep this on track lets look at how this effects Lionel and their 2019 catalog. For many years the standard for "public accommodation" that the courts have accepted is a merchant that provides goods and/or services to the public that has in addition to their web site an actual physical pressense, (brick and mortar as we like to say). However, even under that older very limited definition Lionel would still be covered as they do have brick and mortar authorized dealers. Again that is the standard we have used for many years in all of the legal actions I have been involved in. Now within the past several years that dinfition has been expanded to entities that are purely online with no physical pressense. For example both Netflix and Hulu have recently had to settle out of court to agree to make their sites fully accessible, as well as their downloadable content.Like I said before, it is extremely rare for web sites not to be accessible in this day. The Lionel exception was a real shocker. We live in a very electronic age. The quality of a company's web site is indicative of their overall commitment to quality. I am not sure if anyone from Lionel reads these messages but hopefully if they do they'll want to make their catalog as great as their trains and that is very akin to what you said about it being good for them to make their site work properly regardless of what legal standard is applied. Thanks again for the reply.EscapeRocks posted:ChooChoo1972 posted:OMG! Did anyone else notice that the new Lionel on-line catalog is 100 percent, completely inaccessible to screen readers? Honestly, in 2019 Lionel should be ashamed of themselves. It’s really not rocket science. Luckily the federal courts are starting to put the thumb screws to companies that scoff at federal law. Here is a recent example:
https://www.lflegal.com/2019/0...minos-ninth-circuit/
Hey Frank,
The case hasn't been decided yet. Forgetting for a moment the concept of screen readers:
I read the opinion you linked from the ninth. I think there is a sticking point in the difference between this Domino's Pizza case, and a company such as Lionel.
That difference is the "public accommodation" that the Ninth based it's ruling to overturn the lower court's dismissal. From what I can tell, Lionel (and MTH) etc, are not classified as public accommodation businesses.
Now, legal stuff aside, I agree it would be good for companies to catch on to this, whether or not they have to.
Big Jim posted:Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Hmm, it looks like there is no observation for the Cavalier passenger cars, was that the way it was?
That was the way it was...no observation. The Cavalier was the stop everywhere passenger train and it carried a lot of "head end" cars, i.e. baggage, mail, express. Many times many more head end cars than passenger cars.
As a matter of fact, nationwide there were many more trains without observations than there were with.
Awesome, thanks Big Jim. I sort of thought that may have been the case. I know that every now and then Lionel tends to get something off but I didn't think it would be something like this.
ChooChoo1972 posted:Hi David, thanks for the reply. I have been involved in these legal actions for about a decade. In almost all cases the merchant is initially reluctant to admit they are a place of public accommodation and then eventually settles out of court when they start to loose the suit. Typically, they make their sites accessible and pay the legal fees of the plaintiffs (ACB, NFB, etc). Now to keep this on track lets look at how this effects Lionel and their 2019 catalog. For many years the standard for "public accommodation" that the courts have accepted is a merchant that provides goods and/or services to the public that has in addition to their web site an actual physical pressense, (brick and mortar as we like to say). However, even under that older very limited definition Lionel would still be covered as they do have brick and mortar authorized dealers. Again that is the standard we have used for many years in all of the legal actions I have been involved in. Now within the past several years that dinfition has been expanded to entities that are purely online with no physical pressense. For example both Netflix and Hulu have recently had to settle out of court to agree to make their sites fully accessible, as well as their downloadable content.Like I said before, it is extremely rare for web sites not to be accessible in this day. The Lionel exception was a real shocker. We live in a very electronic age. The quality of a company's web site is indicative of their overall commitment to quality. I am not sure if anyone from Lionel reads these messages but hopefully if they do they'll want to make their catalog as great as their trains and that is very akin to what you said about it being good for them to make their site work properly regardless of what legal standard is applied. Thanks again for the reply.EscapeRocks posted:ChooChoo1972 posted:OMG! Did anyone else notice that the new Lionel on-line catalog is 100 percent, completely inaccessible to screen readers? Honestly, in 2019 Lionel should be ashamed of themselves. It’s really not rocket science. Luckily the federal courts are starting to put the thumb screws to companies that scoff at federal law. Here is a recent example:
https://www.lflegal.com/2019/0...minos-ninth-circuit/
Hey Frank,
The case hasn't been decided yet. Forgetting for a moment the concept of screen readers:
I read the opinion you linked from the ninth. I think there is a sticking point in the difference between this Domino's Pizza case, and a company such as Lionel.
That difference is the "public accommodation" that the Ninth based it's ruling to overturn the lower court's dismissal. From what I can tell, Lionel (and MTH) etc, are not classified as public accommodation businesses.
Now, legal stuff aside, I agree it would be good for companies to catch on to this, whether or not they have to.
Thank you for the discussion and education on this. I appreciate learning things like this. As I said, I was going by my rudimentary knowledge in this area.
Keep at it sir!
Have a great day!
There is a CARGILL PS-2-CD covered hopper that used to be common in this area.
I have to get the Rio Grande extended-vision caboose for use with my Rio Grande SD40T-2 diesel loco.
Andrew
GOLDRAIL posted:Not buying anything until I hear from Lionel about getting an RA number for my ongoing repair.....such a shame.
Congratulations GOLDRAIL! WAY TO GO - here is a guy putting the pedal to the metal.
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Big Jim posted:Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Hmm, it looks like there is no observation for the Cavalier passenger cars, was that the way it was?
That was the way it was...no observation. The Cavalier was the stop everywhere passenger train and it carried a lot of "head end" cars, i.e. baggage, mail, express. Many times many more head end cars than passenger cars.
As a matter of fact, nationwide there were many more trains without observations than there were with.
Awesome, thanks Big Jim. I sort of thought that may have been the case. I know that every now and then Lionel tends to get something off but I didn't think it would be something like this.
No observations are fine with me, but I like to see rear marker lights (lanterns) on the last car.
I may have missed it, but I haven't noticed any comments about the "finely crafted brass scale models of #119 and Jupiter, to be formally announced this May!" mentioned on pg 70.
Well, Friday I went to my LTS and ordered N&W #603 with the doghouse, the Cavalier cars, PRR 2-10-4 #6174, Hudson 1939 Pacemaker set, and the NYC & PRR 40' Sherman Tank flatcars. Seems light for me but I think it is right on par.
Dtrainmaster posted:I may have missed it, but I haven't noticed any comments about the "finely crafted brass scale models of #119 and Jupiter, to be formally announced this May!" mentioned on pg 70.
Part of it is the announcement is SO predominantly displayed on the page amidst all the clutter of the traditional stuff and background imagery:
Plus, shouldn't have this been an announcement made last year so the models could be available by the 150th anniversary? It'll maybe take 1-2 years to get the brass models produced, missing the point of highest interest.
Rusty
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