Lionel 4-12-2 question

Bob,

If you can run the engine on a track, the 6-38029 will not have 6 chuffs per revolution and I believe it only has an incandescent headlight.  The Legacy version will have the 6 chuffs per revolution and has an LED headlight.  Other ways to tell is the Legacy version has a hole under the whistle for the whistle smoke and the top of the sand dome comes off to reveal the switches for the smoke and run/program functions.

The whizz bang Legacy sound and smoke always fetches more. I'm guessing yours may be the legacy version as the last 2 numbers are 12 14, sounds like the date of manufacture. These were offered in the 2013 volII catalog so that would make sense.

Having said that, if  by some chance yours is the earlierTMCC version the level of detail is identical and Korean build quality probably better.

On top of that, if your gutting it. The TMCC loco has the proven Pittman can motor while the legacy version has a Canon motor.

Thanks.  The extreme variation in asking prices led me to believe there was a structural or detail difference.  If it is only the electronics I shall open the box and make a decision.  It is time anyway - box has been closed for three years.  It needs to either go or get displayed.

My thought is that it is almost time for Legacy to be eclipsed by the next new thing anyway.

bob2 posted:

I have a nice 4-12-2, but it is in a box marked only 1702V628 12 14.  I note that there are apparently two versions out there - a 6-11342 and a 6-38029.  Used values are apparently double for the 11 series, or Legacy, vs. the 38 series TMCC.

I am not at all educated about various Lionel designations.  Can you educate me? 

Also, referring to the models above as 11 series and 38 series only adds to the confusion. The first two numbers in the product line aren’t part of any series. They are simply part of the entire stock number. 

The Legacy model MAY have a back-drivable gearbox (a good thing!), and a slightly slower gear ratio.  The gearbox is cast into the chassis, and the wheels and axles are captive, so these aren't easy things to change.  Electronics can always be upgraded, but in stock form the Legacy decoder has 128 speed steps vs 32 for the older model.  The feedback encoder for Legacy speed control is a more reliable optical design that also allows for a larger flywheel.

They're both nice models but the Legacy products have some improvements that are reflected by the higher price.

Thanks.  If it is not Legacy I can always cut a new frame with pedestal binders.  I'll pull it out of the box tomorrow and see what it really is.

It should be real easy to figure out what you have..... if there's a hole under the whistle for the whistlesteam, its legacy. The sand dome will also pop off so you can fill it.

The IR tethers are also of different design. The legacy one is much smaller as its just a round eye heatshrunk on top of the drawbar, not the big square assembly.

They also screwed up on the legacy model and put a hood on the headlight (it shouldnt have one). 

I would sell the Lionel regardless of version and put the proceeds toward a nice 3rd Rail. I keep seeing them for cheap money on ebay and would snag one myself but have committed to purging my collection of UP power. You can forgo the mudflaps boiler treatment that Lionel likes to do and you can get an actual working Gresley valve gear arrangement with the Sunset one (I'm sure you know that!). 

I had both the second version of the Sunset/3rd Rail model (#9030 I think), and the MTH model. Naturally the Sunset/3rd Rail model was more highly detailed and ran very well, but the unique exhaust sound was incorrect (correct sound chip was not available from Lionel) and it didn't have the correct UP freight whistle, typical of all the UP 9000 class locomotives. 

The MTH model had superior exhaust sounds and the correct UP "Star Brass" freight whistle. The details were quite acceptable, especially after proper weathering. Both the MTH and Sunset/3rd Rail models had the proper cranked axle with the operating center cylinder main rod and working Gresley valve gear.

Way ahead of you both.  I have almost completed a scratchbuilt, with full working nickel silver Gresley gear, thanks to Jay C.  I failed to crank the center axle on this one, but my 4-10-2s have that feature.

Oh - and I reviewed the Sunset model for OSN - that had to be one of the finest imports I have seen.  I wish the SP series had been that good.

Ted S posted:

Electronics can always be upgraded, but in stock form the Legacy decoder has 128 speed steps vs 32 for the older model.  The feedback encoder for Legacy speed control is a more reliable optical design that also allows for a larger flywheel.

Legacy has 200 speed steps.

Other than Legacy’s 200 nonlinear speed steps accessed via its antiquated jukebox remote, it ain’t much to brag about these days. A fully round boiler and a proper gear ratio is where it’s at. The Legacy 9000’s exhaust doesn’t sound correct with its evenly spaced chuffs unless I’m hearing things wrong. I think MTH got the chuffing right with its off-timed lope.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

Other than Legacy’s 200 nonlinear speed steps accessed via its antiquated jukebox remote, it ain’t much to brag about these days. A fully round boiler and a proper gear ratio is where it’s at. The Legacy 9000’s exhaust doesn’t sound correct with its evenly spaced chuffs unless I’m hearing things wrong.

You are correct. In my opinion, Lionel used an articulated sound file for their UP 9000, instead of making the correct "off-beat" 3-cylinder exhaust sound.

I think MTH got the chuffing right with its off-timed lope.

Correct again!

Thanks for all your help.  It is “Legacy”, #6-11342, engine #9004.  Off it goes, before Legacy loses out to the next new thing.