Lionel 6-21899 PS4 flatcars, just purchased, couplers crumbled...any advice?

I have had this happen from cars from the same store and he handled the issue for me in house. It does stink because it is a hike to get there! You might as well show us the rest of the car, not just the broken parts! 

Can you scavenge the broken part off old trucks and rivet them in? You shouldn’t have to with new cars, but no one wants new toys they can’t use!

SPFord27 posted:

I have had this happen from cars from the same store and he handled the issue for me in house. It does stink because it is a hike to get there! You might as well show us the rest of the car, not just the broken parts! 

Can you scavenge the broken part off old trucks and rivet them in? You shouldn’t have to with new cars, but no one wants new toys they can’t use!

I’m gonna call the store first, and see what they got to say...but if Lionel will send me the trucks with out a bunch of hoop jumping, I’ll just park them on the siding till they arrive....unless a certain somebody is heading up that way...hint, hint.

I am sure the store or lionel will help, however if not sometimes I just repair it myself to relieve the stress of the situation one phone call to a parts supplier. In my case I keep these parts in stock,                                                   Good luck

Jim53 posted:

I am sure the store or lionel will help, however if not sometimes I just repair it myself to relieve the stress of the situation one phone call to a parts supplier. In my case I keep these parts in stock,                                                   Good luck

I certainly would not spend the bucks to repair brand new merchandise. A pair of diecast trucks going to run you $20 or more. Call Lionel and tell them their product is defective  and you want a refund or return authorization for warranty repairs. 

Are these the recent PS4 flatcars from 2015 or so?

I had the same problem with a freight car from Lionel.  I called Lionel support and they sent me replacement trucks.  No problems.

Send them back, do not accept inferior products. 

Dave

They have been showing the trucks, " out of stock" for over a year. That usually means there is an issue with them. Best call and see if there is a solution.

Pete

Bill T posted:

I certainly would not spend the bucks to repair brand new merchandise. A pair of diecast trucks going to run you $20 or more. Call Lionel and tell them their product is defective  and you want a refund or return authorization for warranty repairs. 

Really?  This is the most basic repair in the toy train world. He doesn't need new trucks, he needs a knuckle and a rivet for less than a buck. Sending the car anywhere for repairs seems ludicrous.

I understand the principle of the thing, that you shouldn't have to fix a new product yourself, but sending it back for something this minor is just out of line, in terms of time and money. Just call Lionel, and tell them what happened. I'm sure they'll be happy to send a few spares in an envelope, my guess is "no charge" just to keep it out of the system.

Granted, it's going to require a few tools, and about ten minutes of his time to fix, but this way he doesn't have to go anywhere, not even to the post office. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from being self sufficient. It's part of what this hobby is about. At least for me it is.

Norton posted:

They have been showing the trucks, " out of stock" for over a year. That usually means there is an issue with them. Best call and see if there is a solution.

Pete

These trucks with the hidden uncouplers have been replaced by the new "Thumb Tack" design and Lionel no longer manufactures them.

Big_Boy 4005

Granted, it's going to require a few tools, and about ten minutes of his time to fix, but this way he doesn't have to go anywhere, not even to the post office. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from being self sufficient. It's part of what this hobby is about. At least for me it is.

Elliot,  Your four sentences define our hobby.  Look back on page after page, comment after comment, subject after subject and how many of those would not be taking up computer capacity if people were not afraid of taking a step on their own.  It might fail a time or two but you also learn by failing.  The self satisfaction is what any hobby is about, not just doing what someone told you to do.  At the end of the project you can look at it and say, "I did that myself" which is a long way from thinking all I did was follow someone else's instructions.  John in Lansing, ILL

BobbyD posted:

Norton posted:

They have been showing the trucks, " out of stock" for over a year. That usually means there is an issue with them. Best call and see if there is a solution.

Pete

These trucks with the hidden uncouplers have been replaced by the new "Thumb Tack" design and Lionel no longer manufactures them.

The way it works is Lionel sets a number of new items aside to be disassembled and used for replacements if needed. When these cars were first released you could buy exact replacements. The fact that none are available now means they used them up. You can still get most of the other parts because not many if any needed new bodies or stakes.

Lionel doesn't order replacement parts separately other than electronic boards. In fact the factories won't sell them parts only. Great system, no? Good thing our autos and trucks are still made here.

To Eliot's point, knuckles and rivets can still be had, likely because they haven't changed since 1945.

Pete

When were those cars produced or at least what is the product number?

harmonyards posted:

SPFord27 posted:

I have had this happen from cars from the same store and he handled the issue for me in house. It does stink because it is a hike to get there! You might as well show us the rest of the car, not just the broken parts! 

Can you scavenge the broken part off old trucks and rivet them in? You shouldn’t have to with new cars, but no one wants new toys they can’t use!

I’m gonna call the store first, and see what they got to say...but if Lionel will send me the trucks with out a bunch of hoop jumping, I’ll just park them on the siding till they arrive....unless a certain somebody is heading up that way...hint, hint.

Send me a picture of what they look like from the bottom. If they are the hidden tab ones, depending on the length, I may have some. I found a 2 rail guy on eBay that was selling the assembly’s and I bought a few incase the ones on my scale hoppers went bad.

How old are these cars? I had many Atlas cars suffer the same fate only to find the entire die cast truck was disintegrating from zinc pest. Cars effected were about seven years old at the time. I agree with spending a couple bucks and fixing yourself if it’s just the knuckles. But $25 for trucks on a new old stock car? I wouldn’t be to excited about that. I’m guessing the dealer should handle replacing the trucks if it gets to that!

The trucks may be "out of stock" because a few dealers stocked up on the old design because the button couplers are now on all cars.

Replacing the knuckles is a pretty easy job.  While it's a bummer to have to fix new stuff, if it takes less time to fix it than drive four hours round trip, I think I'd just fix them.

Just to bring everybody up to date, the car in discussion here is the Lackawanna PS-4 cataloged in 2007, arrived in 2008, I think.

All of the PS-4 have the desirable hidden coupler, no tab truck. So, unless Lionel has replacements for this truck, you will not get a direct replacement. As mentioned above, this is a pretty easy fix though.

I do have at least a single copy of all the PS-4’s and a few of the 2-Pack sets and none (as of this writing) have exhibited the zinc problem… does not mean it won’t happen, but so far, none of mine have started to fail.

Good luck Harmon, the PS series cars are all pretty nice.

Charlie

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Replacing the knuckles is a pretty easy job.  While it's a bummer to have to fix new stuff, if it takes less time to fix it than drive four hours round trip, I think I'd just fix them.

That's what I said earlier John, only in a much longer form.

The only thing I can think of is that knuckle may be slightly different on the inside where the trip mechanism hits it. I still can't imagine that Lionel doesn't have them, even if the trucks are discontinued. As long as the upper and lower rivet holes are intact, it's just a knuckle replacement.

rattler21 posted:

Big_Boy 4005

Granted, it's going to require a few tools, and about ten minutes of his time to fix, but this way he doesn't have to go anywhere, not even to the post office. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from being self sufficient. It's part of what this hobby is about. At least for me it is.

Elliot,  Your four sentences define our hobby.  Look back on page after page, comment after comment, subject after subject and how many of those would not be taking up computer capacity if people were not afraid of taking a step on their own.  It might fail a time or two but you also learn by failing.  The self satisfaction is what any hobby is about, not just doing what someone told you to do.  At the end of the project you can look at it and say, "I did that myself" which is a long way from thinking all I did was follow someone else's instructions.  John in Lansing, ILL

Thanks John. My soapbox has been in the closet for a while. It was time to dust it off for this one.

Sorry for not replying to yalls suggestions, to make matters worse today, woke up to find a bad rain leak in the train room....it’s been a real bummer of a day,......a lot stuff got wet, it sprung out of nowhere.....a real mess....those flat cars right now are the least of my worries....got to knuckle up and clean up....thanks for y’alls suggestions....some day I’ll get them fixed....

Need not worry about those flatcars right now..........Pat

Oh and by the way, the enire coupler is crumbling. Not just the knuckle, or I would have just swapped the knuckle and been back in business........Pat

YIKES!  

That's not good!  I hope you didn't have too much damage.  If I have rain in my trainroom, it'll be in my family room and solarium first, I should spot it.  I guess this is the top floor?

Horrible. I sure hope it’s easily fixed. Good luck to you and somehow keep your chin up,

gunrunnerjohn posted:

YIKES!  

That's not good!  I hope you didn't have too much damage.  If I have rain in my trainroom, it'll be in my family room and solarium first, I should spot it.  I guess this is the top floor?

Ranch house, no top floor, no basement....only way to go was out...roofer canet do anything about it till after Xmas, rain in the forecast from now till Saturday....as my luck would have it, the water poured right down the stack of my legacy mohawk.....if I needed it down there I couldn’t have ever had that happen....oh well, nothing to do but clean it up and move on....

I have a couple of these PS4s and haven't seen the problem.  I am however always amazed at the amount of product that continues to be released in the train hobby that requires the buyer to fiddle with it on a workbench.  It's almost as if the manufacture thinks model train folks enjoy the fiddling. 

SAILLOCO posted:

I have a couple of these PS4s and haven't seen the problem.  I am however always amazed at the amount of product that continues to be released in the train hobby that requires the buyer to fiddle with it on a workbench.  It's almost as if the manufacture thinks model train folks enjoy the fiddling. 

...I thought we did... 

Mark in Oregon 

PS: Pat; best if luck re: the roof.

Pat, bummer about the water damage.

As for the couplers, I hope your dealer can help. I replaced one of these couplers for a friend. There is nothing easy about it. I think I counted 24 different parts in one truck and most all have to apart to replace the coupler. 

Pete

Norton posted:

Pat, bummer about the water damage.

As for the couplers, I hope your dealer can help. I replaced one of these couplers for a friend. There is nothing easy about it. I think I counted 24 different parts in one truck and most all have to apart to replace the coupler. 

Pete

Thanks Pete, it’s a bit of a let down, can’t use the train room for a solid week or so, but it will get fixed, it’ll all clean up.....just a little bummed I won’t be able to run trians for the holidays, .....won’t stop me from having a good time....I reckon I’ll just be haunting the forum more so for about a week............Pat .....PS...I’m draining the water out of the mohawk as we speak, I’m fixin to pull it apart and dry it all out....it’ll be ok, I’ll look at the bright side, the smoke unit will get cleaned out for sure now....

romiller49 posted:

Horrible. I sure hope it’s easily fixed. Good luck to you and somehow keep your chin up,

Thanks Rod, it should be an easy fix.....probably 3 or 4 hours worth of work before we can repair the ceiling, problem is ....it wont stop raining......I’m getting a little better at patience these days...in my younger days, you could have lit a fire under my butt, and I would have shot to the moon.......Pat

If you call Lionel I will bet they will ship you two new ones, they are pretty good when you tell them you just purchased it.

Both of my sons are coming over tomorrow at 6am .....they are determined to get the room fixed back up (at least temporarily) so this old man can enjoy the trains for Christmas.....they both already made plans and took off from work......the band-aid on the roof appears to be doing the trick, it’s raining a good bit, still no drips.....I’ll keep y’all posted....thanks for the well wishes........Pat

harmonyards posted:

Both of my sons are coming over tomorrow at 6am .....they are determined to get the room fixed back up (at least temporarily) so this old man can enjoy the trains for Christmas.....they both already made plans and took off from work......the band-aid on the roof appears to be doing the trick, it’s raining a good bit, still no drips.....I’ll keep y’all posted....thanks for the well wishes........Pat

Now that’s family. Way to go guys. 

Lionel had a great design on the ps series until they changed the design and supplier. No quality control either. Several other issues noted as well. I would return the product.

rattler21 posted:

Big_Boy 4005

Granted, it's going to require a few tools, and about ten minutes of his time to fix, but this way he doesn't have to go anywhere, not even to the post office. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from being self sufficient. It's part of what this hobby is about. At least for me it is.

Elliot,  Your four sentences define our hobby.  Look back on page after page, comment after comment, subject after subject and how many of those would not be taking up computer capacity if people were not afraid of taking a step on their own.  It might fail a time or two but you also learn by failing.  The self satisfaction is what any hobby is about, not just doing what someone told you to do.  At the end of the project you can look at it and say, "I did that myself" which is a long way from thinking all I did was follow someone else's instructions.  John in Lansing, ILL

I disagree completely. If Lionel (or any manufacturer/importer) never gets the message that they're selling defective products, they'll continue to produce/source the product just as they have been doing, either using the same manufacturing methods, the same source or the same design and therefore the problem never gets resolved. The same defects repeat themselves or even worse, get propagated to other products . You must return it to the retailer you bought it from, regardless of the distance, and make them responsible. If the retailer gets enough complaints, they'll let Lionel know - forcefully, and there is a chance that the production defect or the design can get rectified. If all you fellows with all the tools and smarts keep fixing new stuff yourselves, what incentive will there be for Lionel to make sure they're selling quality products out of the box?

I'm not one to bash Lionel. I'm particularly happy with the Lion Chief + products, but I am getting pretty sick and tired of their crappy couplers. 95% of my problems are with the couplers.

xrayvizhen posted:

rattler21 posted:

Big_Boy 4005

Granted, it's going to require a few tools, and about ten minutes of his time to fix, but this way he doesn't have to go anywhere, not even to the post office. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from being self sufficient. It's part of what this hobby is about. At least for me it is.

Elliot,  Your four sentences define our hobby.  Look back on page after page, comment after comment, subject after subject and how many of those would not be taking up computer capacity if people were not afraid of taking a step on their own.  It might fail a time or two but you also learn by failing.  The self satisfaction is what any hobby is about, not just doing what someone told you to do.  At the end of the project you can look at it and say, "I did that myself" which is a long way from thinking all I did was follow someone else's instructions.  John in Lansing, ILL

I disagree completely. If Lionel (or any manufacturer/importer) never gets the message that they're selling defective products, they'll continue to produce/source the product just as they have been doing, either using the same manufacturing methods, the same source or the same design and therefore the problem never gets resolved. The same defects repeat themselves or even worse, get propagated to other products . You must return it to the retailer you bought it from, regardless of the distance, and make them responsible. If the retailer gets enough complaints, they'll let Lionel know - forcefully, and there is a chance that the production defect or the design can get rectified. If all you fellows with all the tools and smarts keep fixing new stuff yourselves, what incentive will there be for Lionel to make sure they're selling quality products out of the box?

I'm not one to bash Lionel. I'm particularly happy with the Lion Chief + products, but I am getting pretty sick and tired of their crappy couplers. 95% of my problems are with the couplers.

 

 

Has this problem you've been having with couplers been going on for awhile. I've never had a problem with lionel couplers, or any couplers for that matter. I don't have too much lionel freight as I mostly buy atlas so I don't know if it's just luck. I also buy mostly older lionel freight if this has become worse in the past few years.

Lionels proven and reliable ps cars all changed around the lionscale time frame. Product today, not the same.

Holey buckets! Croton has come to Harmon!

A big problem was an opportunity for great kids to show the stuff of which they're made. Perhaps your massive cleanup and coupler issue is an opportunity to ditch The Claw and Kadee the fleet?

Best wishes.