Lionel B&M 2-6-0 Mogul Arrived w/PICS!

 Thanks for the pics. . Really nice looking engine. The last one answered my question. The 3 pickup rollers. This seems to be a standard now on their steamers.

For the price and the number of road names offered. The B&M has the correct arched cab windows and numberboard on the top of the boiler. Looks like Lionel has done their homework on these. These look like one of the better bargains out there. Nicely detailed and can run on pretty much any layout. Being a fan of New England roads. There are a number of choices with these. I'm leaning towards the B&M.

Nice loco! 

It looks like theres no "grease screw" for getting grease in the gearbox??

I wonder how involved it is getting at the gearbox after removing the shell?

I love that Lionel has started to darken the side rods.  Big plus for me and as mentioned by Dave three pickup rollers.  Love it.  I get my Rutland tomorrow.

NOW WILL LIONEL OR SOMEONE ELSE MAKE A CABOOSE TO GO WITH MY RUTLAND MOGUL!!!!!!

 You mean like this. Lionel NYC woodside, Atlas trucks, Tomar markers, CDL transfers, brass smokestack, Atlas grab irons and Kadee's.  About $100 + invested. My time is the cheap part.

Is that a serial number?  

Mike W. posted:

When was this tooling first used by Lionel?

We first brought the Mogul to market in 2004.

RickO posted:

I wonder how involved it is getting at the gearbox after removing the shell?

The Mogul was atypically engineered so that the bottom frame "keeper plate" could be removed from the outside to gain access to all the axles, bearings and gears. I can't speak to whether that still holds true or not with the addition of the third pick-up roller assembly.

TRW

Really nice looking loco....Congrats!!! I'd have one but over my comfort level these days. 

Dave:

Beautiful caboose! Awesome work!

The Mogul was atypically engineered so that the bottom frame "keeper plate" could be removed from the outside to gain access to all the axles, bearings and gears. I can't speak to whether that still holds true or not with the addition of the third pick-up roller assembly.

TRW

Interesting, that's definitely a plus and certainly even better that just an access hole for grease.

That also explains the other flush mounted screws in Mikes photo.

Thanks for the info TRW!!

RickO posted:

 

The Mogul was atypically engineered so that the bottom frame "keeper plate" could be removed from the outside to gain access to all the axles, bearings and gears. I can't speak to whether that still holds true or not with the addition of the third pick-up roller assembly.

TRW

Interesting, that's definitely a plus and certainly even better that just an access hole for grease.

That also explains the other flush mounted screws in Mikes photo.

Thanks for the info TRW!!

Yes, removing 6 plate screws and 2 screws for the pickups allows access to the gearbox. 

Dave_C posted:

 You mean like this. Lionel NYC woodside, Atlas trucks, Tomar markers, CDL transfers, brass smokestack, Atlas grab irons and Kadee's.  About $100 + invested. My time is the cheap part.

 

I’ll take it!

RickO posted:

 

The Mogul was atypically engineered so that the bottom frame "keeper plate" could be removed from the outside to gain access to all the axles, bearings and gears. I can't speak to whether that still holds true or not with the addition of the third pick-up roller assembly.

TRW

Interesting, that's definitely a plus and certainly even better that just an access hole for grease.

That also explains the other flush mounted screws in Mikes photo.

Thanks for the info TRW!!

The 2005 Moguls with two pickups have a screw next to the worm gearbox. If I had one of these Legacy engines I would drill and tap a hole so the "keeper" didn't have to removed everytime.

I have run my 2005 NYC Mogul on the club layout with its numerous double slips and never had a stalling problem. OTOH my Lionel Niagara does stall on the some of the switches. I think its less about the number of pickups and more about where they are located.

Pete

Dave_C posted:

 You mean like this. Lionel NYC woodside, Atlas trucks, Tomar markers, CDL transfers, brass smokestack, Atlas grab irons and Kadee's.  About $100 + invested. My time is the cheap part.

 

Wonderful caboose! I have the lackawanna one that I had the same plans for. Where did you get the decals, and how did you remove the factory lettering?

Michael,  go to  www.ozarkminatures.com.     Go to CDS lettering. Go to O scale and hit Rutland. These are dry transfers. Not decals.  The visors or shades on the windows were made out of some phosphor bronze I had in the spare parts drawer. I cut it into strips then rolled the ends up. These were a Rutland trademark. I used small dressmaker pins and epoxy to secure them. The pins are more noticeable than I thought they would be. But they aren't going to fall off.

 As far as removing the lettering. I've done a number of these. Needed a small fleet of B&A's for my Berkshires. I've done really fine wet sanding to take the edge off the lettering or nail polish remover and a quick wipe. No matter what you do. You will end up repainting. These pad printed letters are really deep into the paint. On this car the lettering even bled through to the inside. I used Scalecoat 1 Box Car red.  After numerous researching for the correct color I settled on this. I looked at both model and prototype photos. I just got a book on the Rutland yesterday. All color. They show a freshly painted unlettered caboose. Could be a little more red. I researched the numbers also. They had a few versions as far as cupola height. The number I chose was close to a NYC model. Close enough that the NYC caboose on display at Chester MA. was former  Rutland #34.  I was originally going to re do a Williams brass one. But the ladders were wrong for a Rutland.

 For those that bought a Central Vermont. They offer lettering for those as well. With careful shopping on eBay. You should be able to pick up a NYC 17600 for about $35.00 shipped. Just has to be intact not mint. There are others that will work this version has the easiest lettering to remove. 

 Any questions on adding lighting, Atlas trucks or Kadee's I'd be glad to answer. One mod I recommend. Is adding some metal stock to the plastic floor to stiffen it , plus add some needed weight.

Dave_C posted:

Michael,  go to  www.ozarkminatures.com.     Go to CDS lettering. Go to O scale and hit Rutland. These are dry transfers. Not decals.  The visors or shades on the windows were made out of some phosphor bronze I had in the spare parts drawer. I cut it into strips then rolled the ends up. These were a Rutland trademark. I used small dressmaker pins and epoxy to secure them. The pins are more noticeable than I thought they would be. But they aren't going to fall off.

 As far as removing the lettering. I've done a number of these. Needed a small fleet of B&A's for my Berkshires. I've done really fine wet sanding to take the edge off the lettering or nail polish remover and a quick wipe. No matter what you do. You will end up repainting. These pad printed letters are really deep into the paint. On this car the lettering even bled through to the inside. I used Scalecoat 1 Box Car red.  After numerous researching for the correct color I settled on this. I looked at both model and prototype photos. I just got a book on the Rutland yesterday. All color. They show a freshly painted unlettered caboose. Could be a little more red. I researched the numbers also. They had a few versions as far as cupola height. The number I chose was close to a NYC model. Close enough that the NYC caboose on display at Chester MA. was former  Rutland #34.  I was originally going to re do a Williams brass one. But the ladders were wrong for a Rutland.

 For those that bought a Central Vermont. They offer lettering for those as well. With careful shopping on eBay. You should be able to pick up a NYC 17600 for about $35.00 shipped. Just has to be intact not mint. There are others that will work this version has the easiest lettering to remove. 

 Any questions on adding lighting, Atlas trucks or Kadee's I'd be glad to answer. One mod I recommend. Is adding some metal stock to the plastic floor to stiffen it , plus add some needed weight.

 

Thank you very much for the information! You have been a HUGE help!

Does the tender and engine have provisions for mounting Kadee couplers?

Unless something has changed. There's no quickmounting a Kadee. The tender chassis tends to ride high to clear the swing of the coil coupler. Every model is different but your solution will be making a T shaped bracket. A drill press, taps, and basic soldering skills and you can make up a bracket. On the 0-8-0 picture below. I reversed 2 of the screws that secure the speaker. Drilled and tapped 2 mounting holes for a Kadee. Marked and squared up both pieces and soldered them together. In most cases the tenders chassis is recessed inside the shell. You will need some sort of offset mount anyways. The other brass pieces shown are purely cosmetic to frame the coupler better.

For a front coupler. I've been using the newer Atlas coupler. The Kadee clone. Seems to have a little more meat for drilling out the mounting hole. You need to file a couple of notches to allow it to pivot a bit. There's really no way to shim these but most models I've added them to seem to be close to the correct height.

Charlie posted:

Just for comparison, here is an underside shot of my early mogul (C&NW) from first run.

While the “grease hole” is missing from the current model, it seems the detail level has been improved, let alone the operating system, smoke and sound and the obvious 3^rd pick-up.

Charlie -- FYI. The model you show is one of the 4-6-0 Ten Wheelers, and doesn't share any design or tooling commonality with the 2-6-0 Mogul.

TRW

Well, color me red with embarrassment. All along I was reading Mogul and thinking 10 wheeler. 

I'll delete my post, thanks for the correction Todd.

Charlie

I have two of them on the bench for minor situations.  The keeper plate come off very easy to put grease on the gear if you ever need to do so.  It came very well greased.  FYI, with the keeper plate off, each set of drivers can be lifted out.  The have very large bearing blocks (brass) on each axle end.  A very well built and very well designed locomotive.

Great looking engine Mike! 

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

I have two of them on the bench for minor situations.  The keeper plate come off very easy to put grease on the gear if you ever need to do so.  It came very well greased.  FYI, with the keeper plate off, each set of drivers can be lifted out.  The have very large bearing blocks (brass) on each axle end.  A very well built and very well designed locomotive.

The days of post war maintenance are gone.  If the engine was well greased during production you should never have to ad grease.  Unlike yesteryear, todays greases don't go bad and don't harden.   No need for the screw to ad grease.

superwarp1 

The days of post war maintenance are gone.  If the engine was well greased during production you should never have to ad grease.

"If".   I've seen plenty of Lionel gearboxes with little if any grease. Many times it's stuck to the side of the gearbox and not even on the gears.

I believe there were posts within the last couple of years(maybe Alex M) showing pictures of  some big ticket Lionel steamers with minimal grease. Possibly even the vl bigboy? Can't recall exactly.

To each his own I guess. I'll keep adding .5-1.0 ml of grease to every Loco when I take it out of the box as cheap insurance and piece of mind.

Just purchased a K4 with the long haul tender. Not a spot of grease in the gear box... I always check. It made around the layout twice and the tender truck screws fell out causing it to short... never did find the screws.

I always check everything during a new locomotive break-in period... you never know what your going to find.

RickO posted:

I believe there were posts within the last couple of years(maybe Alex M) showing pictures of  some big ticket Lionel steamers with minimal grease. Possibly even the vl bigboy? Can't recall exactly.

 

The VL Big Boy was lacking grease.  I had to add grease to the gearbox as it was minimal.  I agree a few minutes to check could save the hassle of sending it back.

PaperTRW posted:

Charlie posted:

Just for comparison, here is an underside shot of my early mogul (C&NW) from first run.

 

Charlie -- FYI. The model you show is one of the 4-6-0 Ten Wheelers, and doesn't share any design or tooling commonality with the 2-6-0 Mogul.

TRW

What the early Moguls do share with that 10 wheeler is the location for the screw for greasing the gearbox.

Pete

Just curious if there are chains attached to the tender trucks like shown in the catalog? Tough to tell for sure in the posted photos. Also, is there a cab light? Nice locomotive!

NYC Z-MAN posted:

Just curious if there are chains attached to the tender trucks like shown in the catalog? Tough to tell for sure in the posted photos. Also, is there a cab light? Nice locomotive!

No chains, cab is lighted.

SJC posted:

NYC Z-MAN posted:

Just curious if there are chains attached to the tender trucks like shown in the catalog? Tough to tell for sure in the posted photos. Also, is there a cab light? Nice locomotive!

No chains, cab is lighted.

Okay, thanks. Enjoy!

Gary, I agree with you.  The engines available today are the real deal.   That small engine is not one I would buy to run as I am a larger engine guy.  When I see something I consider well done, I like to mention it.   If you ever had a reason to grease the locomotive, it can all be done from the bottom with no removing the cab.

Here’s a pic of my Rutland

Can't wait to get mine.  Wish Lionel would make more scale Legacy small steam for O36, these are lovely.

To the Mogul experts: During what decade might the B&M Mogul most likely have been built? (I suppose it would also apply to the other Lionel Moguls in this run)

TM Terry posted:

To the Mogul experts: During what decade might the B&M Mogul most likely have been built? (I suppose it would also apply to the other Lionel Moguls in this run)

Turn of the century, 1890's.  The Rutland only purchased three and all were scrapped during WWII.  I can't speak for the B&M but wouldn't be surprised they survived to the end of steam like they did on many roads.

Has anyone had the nerve to open one of these up?  Would love to see pics of the electronics and see how they are jammed in there.

TM Terry posted:

To the Mogul experts: During what decade might the B&M Mogul most likely have been built? (I suppose it would also apply to the other Lionel Moguls in this run)

The first group of B&M Moguls class B-15 were built by Manchester Locomotive Works between 1903 and 1906.

Rusty

Doing a little research I see that B&M #1455 (2-6-0)  was the last steam locomotive to operate on the Boston and Maine Railroad in 1956. On display at the Danbury Railway Museum in Danbury, Connecticut.

Nice looking engine and politically correct.

PaperTRW posted:

The Mogul was atypically engineered so that the bottom frame "keeper plate" could be removed from the outside to gain access to all the axles, bearings and gears. "

This isn't atypical.  It's the norm in all other scales and the RIGHT way to build a locomotive.  That business of pressing axles through the frame is pure toy train stuff.  A nice shortcut for the manufacturer that really handicaps the buyer.  I wish all newly tooled locos were made with a separable gearbox, frame, and "keeper plate."

Everything inside that locomotive is laid out very well.  Easy to get at everything.    When Lionel went to the RCMC board system and done away with the modular boards, life got better for us Lionel Tech guys.