Lionel Diagnostic map for smoke unit

the smoke unit should run on conventional as long as the wick is not Burt and the smoke switch is turned on ,did you check that your wick is moist and not BURNT!

Alan

Legacy, like TMCC, controls smoke via keypad keys 8 & 9. 8 turns it off and 9 turns it on. In Legacy control, 9 will also control intensity of smoke output in three stages via key #9.

OK took the unit apart.  Fan turns.  Did the Reagan mods.  Board is hot where the wire resistor connections are.  I guess that means electricity is passing through the heating element?  Fan is turning.  No smoke.

What do I check next?

Did the windings on the resistor look good? Not sure how you can test it without a meter. You certainly don't want to touch it.

A good fill of smoke fluid to soak the wick well?

Wick nicely soaked.  I do have a meter.  Is it just an ohm continuity check on the back of the board or am I looking for voltage.

Unfortunately, you need to get back to smoke unit and take the top off.

Then. track power off, with continuity\ohms, measure the resistor with the leads on each side of the resistor.

It should be close to 27ohms. If 0 (∞ ), it won't get hot. If higher, there's not enough voltage and it won't get hot enough.

Put it back together if it's 27 ohms and then measure the voltage at the smoke unit inputs. It will be DC voltage. This will tells us if the smoke driver is providing the correct voltage. It's obviously providing some, as you felt heat at the contacts.

Can you describe where to take the voltage readings?  The PCB has a bunch of solder points where the connectors come in.  I do not want to short them with the meter and make the wrong kind of smoke. :-)  I also have two connectors coming in, a 2 pin and a 3 pin.  Lastly, 18 volts on the track when I am taking all the voltage measurements?

I understand. Did you get the schematic I posted in the other thread? I did find it in the Lionel service documents.

I saw the parts list but no schematic?  On the way to work now.  I can look again later.  Which thread?

https://ogrforum.com/t...78#43665863276294578

Sounds like a safe bet would be to replace the heater elements AKA resistor/resistors. if the get hot that doesnt mean they are good. If you touch that thing while its on you should get a pretty good burn

30 ohms resistance and 7 volts dc across the resistor pins.

it doesn't seem way off. You should be getting some smoke.

I have asked gunrunnerjohn to take a look at this thread.

Just for clarification, does your engine have odyssey cruise? I want to look at the correct schematic.

It's a standard 27 ohm smoke unit, so if the fan isn't running but the element is getting hot, there are a couple of possibilities.  The top suspects are either the fan or the LM78L05 regulator that drives the fan.  Many times the regulator overheats and dies.  Both are cheap and pretty easy to replace.  I've seen a couple where the diode in the fan power supply dies, that takes out the regulator and maybe the capacitor as well.

No Odyssey   I have the fan running now.  Legacy issue.  Fan was so quiet even with the sound off I could not hear it or I did not know how to turn it on. 

I have 7 volts or so across the resistor and 30 ohms of resistance.  That being said I am not sure if there are various levels of smoke.  So maybe I am in low volume mode? 

I have no local electronics supply stores here.  Guess I could order the regulator on my next batch?  Where is the diode?  Same board?

This may sound dumb but what if I over soaked it?  I have run the engine for ten minutes, I figure I should have seen some evidence of smoke?  Oddly right now I could care less if it works.  But I am obsessed with fixing it!!!!

If the fan is running, the regulator and motor are obviously working as well.

If you can turn the smoke fan on and off with the remote, everything appears to be working.  There are no smoke levels with that locomotive, it has one smoke volume, either on or off.

I'd figure that you may have a burned wick, or too little or too much smoke fluid.  The resistor should be close to 27 ohms, but depending on your meter and how you connect the leads, it can vary a bit.

Thank you, grj.

15-20 drops of smoke fluid. he replaced the wick per Mike's video.

Alright, back to basics.  You said new wick, fan running, so power making it to the smoke unit.  Resistance is 30.

You need to reset the R2LC using code 8.  I linked the instruction for you.  As I mentioned in the e-mail, this is conventional smoke unit, so only on and off and boost.  Other features require legacy electronics in the engine and smoke unit, or a TMCC unit that use smart smoke and ACREG.  Neither of which your engine has.

This can be a simple wrong code in the R2lC, or it needs a reset.

Here are the instructions for your engine. Pg 15. 

If this doesn't work, you need to swap the R2LC as a test. G

http://www.lionel.com/media/se...ents/71-8252-250.pdf

Got it working.  I guess I just needed the right balance of wick.  Dumb as it sounds I just kept  removing a little bit at a time.  Suddenly...smoke.  I really did not have it crammed tight and the fan air passage was not blocked at anytime.  Only thing I can think is that maybe it just needed some air at the top and I did not have enough of a passage.

The Mike Reagan mod really makes a huge difference.

All's well that ends well.

 G

now you can troubleshoot smoke units.

I am still sort of leery.  Is it ok to leave the resistor unwrapped?  I did cut that sleeve off it but now the resistor only touches the wick. 

Yes, most Lionel and MTH smoke resistors are bare and are stuck right into the wick.

Yep, As long as it is in contact with wetted wick no issues.  G

My reply didn't convey the thought?

Nope. You forgot to say wetted.   G

I don't soak it I just dip....

If they're stuffed into the wick material and they're not wetted, it's not the resistor position that's the problem.

Ridin' the edge John........Ridin' the edge.