Lionel GG1 TMCC or Legacy?

There has not been a Legacy GG1 and the only issue I know of with the TMCC versions is you cant power them overhead using the pantographs. 

Personally we are long over due for a Legacy GG1. 

A scale one at that. 

Chipset, the only Lionel G I remember getting bad press was the recent Conventional can motored ones.  They were prone to overheating the conventional reverse boards.  Some had trouble with the horn and bell on the same units.

I've got samples of them all and a few I tweeked, but otherwise they work as advertised.

Ah ok thanks guys, I am considering some TMCC or Legacy GG1s, as I dont want to mess with my conventional Williams scale GG1s and possible ruin them with an upgrade.

I upgraded my Williams Scale GG1 and could not be happier. A lot of the Lionel scale GG1's are selling very cheap.

Also, the only Lionel GG1 that I know of that had issues was the TMCC version produced a number of years ago. The magnets for the magnatraction were not properly installed.

The Williams scale GG1s are great for upgrades.  I have one that I've upgraded with TMCC, and one waiting in the wings that will be getting the PS/2 upgrade. 

I don't view doing command upgrades on my scale GG1s as "ruining" them, I'm "enhancing" them.

I guess what I am worried about is if I fat finger the conversion...

That being said, do they run smooth after conversion?

Reason I ask is that I notice my Legacy and MTH DCS is silky smooth, whereas my TMCC engines albiet much smoother than conventional, are not as smooth as Legacy by a long shot.

I am also adding up the cost of adding both the cruise commander and railsounds commander to the cost of the original locos, versus the cost of a new TMCC GG1 (non Scale).

However, got to love the scale on those Williams GG1s!!!!

The ERR Cruise Commander gives you 100 steps, and will rival at least the MTH, which doesn't do low speed as well as the Legacy stuff, at least for me.  The reason that plain TMCC aren't as smooth as Legacy or MTH is simply the fact that TMCC is 32 speed steps, MTH DCS has 120 speed steps, and Legacy has 200 speed steps.  Obviously, when you have more speed steps, the increments between steps is smaller, and the operation is smoother.  The ERR Cruise Commander has 100 speed steps, which is sufficient for nice smooth operation.

I agree that you can probably buy a semi-scale TMCC GG1 for the price of the upgrade kit.  However, you have to weigh the fact that you are running a TMCC locomotive with 32 speed steps and without cruise control vs. one that has 100 speed steps and has cruise control.  The choice was easy for me, I wanted to go scale.

Ah thanks for clarifying!

Makes sense!

I am surprised more people dont upgrade with cruise commander, seems like a no brainer.

You could also look at a kline model. They have a dual can motored one with tmcc and railsounds, dual electrocouplers. Ive got several. Couldnt be happier, although no cruise. The problem I had with the lionel versions is they all had pullmor motors.

I've got one of these K-Line semi scale GG1s with the works (minus cruise) and it's a nice one.  Pulls a lot, sounds great, and is smooth.  I don't have any cruise locomotives, nor have I seen a need for it.  But then I said the same thing about command until I got a working TMCC setup...

But then I enjoy having to stay with the locomotive and adjust the speed as it's going along.  Real trains don't have cruise.

You sure about that?

Trainworld had Scale Williams GG1's for sale as little as $140 for the black version and a little more for other versions.

So, for about $400 or less you can have a command, railsounds and cruise equipped engine that can operate, albeit with a bit of overhang, on 042. They look fairly good on 054 and great on 072.

My guess that if Lionel decided to do a legacy version you might be looking at a grand or more.

What do they mean when K-Line GG1's say "upgradeable to Lionel Trainmaster"?

For the K-Line GG1 that I have, that meant there was plenty of space to put the components!   There was no provision to just "drop in" boards like some of the Lionel command upgradable models.

Have you gotten to that DCS upgrade? If so, how did it go? I imagine the electronics and wiring all fit nicely. Were the couplers changable, without any modifications of parts, I couldn't order replacements for?

You will have no problem fitting the PS/2 upgrade into any DC Motored GG-1 that I've seen.  The K-Line and Williams semi-scale or the Williams scale GG-1 models have plenty of room for either TMCC or PS/2 upgrades.

I've yet to work on the second Williams scale GG-1 with the DCS upgrade, but I don't anticipate any issues.  For one, the PS/2 board set is smaller than the ERR Cruise Commander & RailSounds Commander, and those fit with room to spare in my other scale Williams GG-1.  I've installed enough of both of the kits to anticipate any issues after looking the intended victim over.

Boxcar Bill added ERR Cruise Commander and sound to my K-Line GG1. Result: A fantastic slow-speed operation locomotive with great sound.  I also have two Pull-mor GG1s, neither can touch the DC motored K-Line for slow speed operation.

But, I guess that is just the nature of the Pull-mor AC motors.