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A while ago, a forum member put up a list of all the Lionel PS-1 boxcars. These are some of my favorite pieces of rolling stock. Since I am collecting these, I wanted a photo checklist. I took the already compiled list and added what was recently cataloged. I also added pictures to all the item numbers. Most of the pics came from Lionel...a few I had to search for on other sites...and a few are my photos.

The 17298 Southern Railway car I could not find pics of. I recently located that car...as soon as it arrives I will add a photo.

If anyone is interested, I converted the Word document to a PDF that can be downloaded from File Jumbo:

**LIST UPDATED 11/8/2011 1:19PM Eastern:
LIONEL PS-1 with product info..docx
Last edited {1}
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Keith, as the one who originally posted the list, I'm happy to see you follow up with a new and improved version. I can't open your file, but I also have been compiling photos to go with my list, as well as catalog information. For anyone who is interested and can't get Keith's to open, send me an e-mail (cdunn1@verizon.net), and I'll send you my excel file.

Chris Dunn
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Dunn:
Keith, as the one who originally posted the list, I'm happy to see you follow up with a new and improved version. I can't open your file, but I also have been compiling photos to go with my list, as well as catalog information. For anyone who is interested and can't get Keith's to open, send me an e-mail (cdunn1@verizon.net), and I'll send you my excel file.

Chris Dunn

Chris thanks for posting the original list. Sorry you couldn't open the file...I don't know why it didn't work.
I started with your list and decided to add the photos for my benefit and then I thought a few members might want it.
Keith:

A few updates for your list.

Additional info:
6-17298 Southern PS-1: this one was available in the 6-31735 Chessie GP-30 set from 2005.

6-27222 Santa Fe PS-1: this car came in the 6-31748 Santa Fe U-28-CG set of 2006.


Cars not listed:
6-52310 TCA Museum PS-1: this is the bright yellow car that matches other cars in their "work train." From 2004.

6-52325 TCA Seaboard PS-1: Also from 2004, this one came in the 52312/52314 TCA "50th Anniversary" sets.

I hope this helps.
Todd
Last edited by PaperTRW
Keith: Also love this series and thanks for the effort in keeping the list updated.

PaperTRW/Todd: Can you give a little background as to how/who or the decisions involved in the Lionel "PS" series of cars?

These PS series cars (PS-1, PS-4 etc). are really fine scale cars with three rail trucks. Was there to be more of the scale series? Are or were these cars considered successful from a sales standpoint? Any background information would be great.

Thanks

Charlie
quote:
Originally posted by PaperTRW:
Keith:

A few updates for your list.

Additional info:
6-17298 Southern PS-1: this one was available in the 6-31735 Chessie GP-30 set from 2005.

6-27222 Santa Fe PS-1: this car came in the 6-31748 Santa Fe U-28-CG set of 2006.


Cars not listed:
6-52310 TCA Museum PS-1: this is the bright yellow car that matches other cars in their "work train." From 2004.

6-52325 TCA Seaboard PS-1: Also from 2004, this one came in the 52312/52314 TCA "50th Anniversary" sets.

I hope this helps.
Todd

Yes, this does help...thank you very much. I did not know the 17298 was from a set, but that explains why I am having trouble finding a photo.
Thanks for the additional TCA PS-1s.

quote:
Here is a photo of the 52325 Seaboard PS-1 from the TCA sets.

BTW - I want this car if anyone has one available.

Larry, thanks for the photo of the Seaboard car.

I will update the photo list,(hopefully tonight)with the info received here, and replace the link in my original post. I will also move the TCA cars to their own page.

Thanks again for the additional info.
I just updated the list with the info members have provided. Larry Neal was kind enough to send me better photos of the two Southern TCA cars. The only ones I could find were small and blurry. Thanks Larry!

So far 131 people downloaded this Eek

It was suggested to add the dates of when each car was cataloged. I will do that when I get a chance. I may also add which cars have box loads and which do not.

Here is the link updated 4/26/2011:
LIONEL__PS-1_With_Photos.zip

The link at the top of the page is the same as this now.
Here is a list I have, have not yet compared it to Keiths. Sorry about the format, when pasting an excel list to the forum it loses its formatting. I've included the first year the car was cataloged and also the MSRP. Also when included in a set, the set number is listed.

17275 NYC Pacemaker "175008" $54.95 Std O Box PS-1 2002Vol1
17276 SSW (Cotton Belt) "75000" $54.95 Std O Box PS-1 2002Vol1
17277 D & RGW "69676" $54.95 Std O Box PS-1 2002Vol1
17278 Western Pacifc "1953" $54.95 Std O Box PS-1 2002Vol1
17288 New York Central "175012" $54.99 Std O Box PS-1 2003Cla2
17289 Great Northern "18485" $54.99 Std O Box PS-1 2003Cla2
17290 Seaboard "24452" $54.99 Std O Box PS-1 2003Cla2
17291 Rock Island "21110" $54.99 Std O Box PS-1 2003Cla2
17292 Boston & Maine "76182" $54.99 Std O Box PS-1 2004Cla2
17293 Illinois Central "400666" $54.99 Std O Box PS-1 2004Cla2
17294 TP & W "5036" $54.99 Std O Box PS-1 2004Cla2
17295 Santa Fe "276749" $54.99 Std O Box PS-1 2004Cla2
17296 Chesapeake & 0hio "15153" (JLC H7 offer) Std O Box PS-1 2003Unc
17297 Union Pacific "100675" (JLC H7 offer) Std O Box PS-1 2003Unc
17298 Southern "27000" PS-1 31735 Std O Box PS-1 2005Vol1
17299 Century2 Virginian "63128" PS-1 31731 Std O Box PS-1 2004Unc
27200 Century2 Wabash "7609" PS-1 31731 Std O Box PS-1 2004Unc
27201 Century2 CNJ "23541" PS-1 31731 Std O Box PS-1 2004Unc
27202 Century2 Reading PS-1 31731 Std O Box PS-1 2004Unc
27210 Pennsylvania "47009" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2005Vol1
27211 MKT Katy "948" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2005Vol1
27212 Rutland "358" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2005Vol1
27214 Chessie System "23770" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2005Vol2
27215 Rock "57607" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2005Vol2
27216 Erie Lackawanna "84433" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2005Vol2
27217 Frisco "17826" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2005Vol2
27222 ATSF "146112" PS-1 31748 Std O Box PS-1 2006Vol1
27224 Chicago Great Western "5180" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2006Vol2
27225 Western Pacific "19528" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2006Vol2
27226 New Haven "32196" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2006Vol2
27227 Union Pacific "100306" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2006Vol2
27230 Lehigh Valley "8505" AAR double door $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2007Vol2
27241 Chesapeake & Ohio "18719" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2007Vol2
27242 Lehigh Valley "62080" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2007Vol2
27243 Southern Pacific "128131" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2007Vol2
27244 Great Northern "39404" $59.99 Std O Box PS-1 2007Vol2
27263 Polar Railroad "PRR 1225" $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2009Hol
27265 Virginian "VGN 63300" $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2009Vol2
27270 Baltimore & Ohio PS-1 boxcar 2 pack $139.99 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol1
27271 Baltimore & Ohio "467934" Time-Saver 27270 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol1
27272 Baltimore & Ohio "466010" Sentinel 27270 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol1
27273 Ann Arbor "AA 1314" 31795 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol1
27275 Southern Pacific "97938" $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol1
27277 Western Pacific "1925" 31796 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol1
27298 Union Pacific "2010" BSA 2010 $79.99 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol2
27452 NS Pennsylvania Heritage "PRR 45540" $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol2
27453 Norfolk Southern Heritage "NS 67850" $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol2
27856 Kansas City Southern "KCS 18741" $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2010Vol2
27876 Bangor & Aroostook "5141" State of Maine $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2011Vol1
27886 Great Northern "11310" $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2011Vol1
27893 Grand Trunk Western $69.99 Std O Box PS-1 2011Vol1
52325 TCA Seaboard "24919", 50th Ann 52311 Std O Box PS-1 2004Unc
52325 TCA Seaboard "24919", 50th Ann 52314 Std O Box PS-1 2004Unc
52438 TCA Southern PS-1 "27007" Std O Box PS-1 2006Unc
52444 TCA Southern PS-1 "27087" Std O Box PS-1 2006Unc
52483 TCA Rutland "150" Std O Box PS-1 2008Unc
Keith, I'll add a little note to this project.

The undercarriage on the first eight, 40ft cars (from 2002 & 2003) had brake linkage that was not secured at the ends, making it somewhat fragile. Lionel got smart and fixed it by fastening the ends toward the trucks to the frame, making it a much sturdier design.
I know that the 17293 IC from 2004 has the new design.

Also, some of the cars like the 27211 MKT have roller bearing trucks, even though the catalog picture shows the friction bearing type.

Dave
quote:
Originally posted by ed h:
Here is a list I have, have not yet compared it to Keiths. Sorry about the format, when pasting an excel list to the forum it loses its formatting. I've included the first year the car was cataloged and also the MSRP. Also when included in a set, the set number is listed.

This is great info. Thank you!
You and Chris did the hard part...I only added pictures.
When I get time, I will add your info to my list.

quote:
Keith, I'll add a little note to this project.

The undercarriage on the first eight, 40ft cars (from 2002 & 2003) had brake linkage that was not secured at the ends, making it somewhat fragile. Lionel got smart and fixed it by fastening the ends toward the trucks to the frame, making it a much sturdier design.
I know that the 17293 IC from 2004 has the new design.

Also, some of the cars like the 27211 MKT have roller bearing trucks, even though the catalog picture shows the friction bearing type.

Dave

More interesting info. Thank you!

quote:
I'm really enjoying all this great information.

Me too.

quote:


Posted April 26, 2011 08:40 PM Hide Post
Ed, Keith:

Again, thanks for taking the time to update and share this information with the rest of us.

Have a great evening.

Charlie

This is a great forum!
You have a good evening too, Charlie.
quote:
Originally posted by Charlie:
PaperTRW/Todd: Can you give a little background as to how/who or the decisions involved in the Lionel "PS" series of cars?

These PS series cars (PS-1, PS-4 etc). are really fine scale cars with three rail trucks. Was there to be more of the scale series? Are or were these cars considered successful from a sales standpoint? Any background information would be great.

Thanks

Charlie


Charlie, there's not any great story associated with the PS-1 in particular, but I'll give a little background on the Standard O freight cars in general that I managed in the early 2000's.

Sometime in mid-2000, the "Product Guys" - me, Eric Shreffler and Ken Sylvestri - met at Ken's house to plan the 2002 product line. Lionel had already shipped the "new" 8000 Gallon Tank Car and the Cylindrical Hopper, which apparently were nothing more than copies of the Intermountain and Atlas cars. When the topic came around to new freight cars, Ken wanted to do new cabooses (Bay Window and Extended Vision) and I had suggested two others - a stock car (not modeled by Lionel previously in Standard O) and a longer "mill" gondola, as the existing Std. O gondola was quite the oddball.

Ken kicked-off the cabooses just before his departure in late 2000. In early 2001, Eric and I were placed in charge of the product line, and we needed to get to work quickly on how we were to shape the remaining 2001 - and beyond - product lines. Fortunately, a nice bit of good luck landed in our laps, in the form of Brit Richard Webster, formerly of Kader. One of Richard's first tasks was to put together a group of designers in China that would work exclusively for Lionel and be independent of the production partners there. Some of these guys were the same ones that designed much of Bachmann's successful On30 and Large Scale lines, and were the same ones that would later design FasTrack. Working closely with Richard and his designers, we started work on the stock car and what became the PS-5 Gondola.

First up were the trucks - I wanted new trucks from the ground-up, and gave Richard one of the "thumbtackless" postwar trucks (like on the passenger cars and bay window cabooses) with the suggestion that it would be nice to lose the thumbtack. The resulting design (while admittedly overbuilt) accomplished all the features we laid out: no thumbtack, scale size, needlepoint axles AND truck bearings for low rolling resistance, a real working "sprung" suspension, and absolutely bullet-proof coupler operation.

We chose those particular stock car and gondola versions simply because we had quite a bit information in the Marketing Library on them. Pullman-Standard seemed to feed a lot of information to Lionel over the years, and as a result we had builder's drawings for most of the PS Series. We spec'd a similar laundry list for the new cars: scale size, etched brass for things like roof walks, wireform for piping, and die-cast metal for stirrup steps, ladders and underbody details. We handed-down one more guiding principle: if a decision came down to "scale/more fragile" versus "oversized/more sturdy" for a particular part of a design, they were to take the oversized/more sturdy path. After all, we saw it that Lionel was a toy train company that happened to make a scale line of trains, and not the other way around. We didn't quite accomplish everything on the first few car designs - there was plastic underbody detail on some, if I recall correctly - but we upgraded everything to metal within a year or two.

The PS-5 Gondolas were first, followed by the PS-1 Boxcar (6- and 8-foot door variations), PS-2 Hopper (two completely different versions) and the PS-4 Flat Car. We never really had plans to do the PS-3 Open Hopper, as the design was something of a prototypical orphan, with only a small number of roads purchasing the design. These releases were intermixed with several other new freight car designs through 2004 - the Milk Car, Tank Train, Steel-sided Reefer (and variants), Double Door Boxcar, Offset Hopper, Aluminum ACF Hoppers, I-12 Caboose, PS-4 Flatcar with Trailers, Hot Metal and Slag Cars, and probably one or two others that I can't recall at the moment. While I was the guy ultimately responsible for these cars, proper credit also goes to all the folks mentioned above, plus Dana Kawala, Todd Eib, Matt Ashba and Bill Leto who carried the torch in later years. Project Managers Steve Greening and Lionel Grange made sure we didn't get too crazy. And while I'm dropping names, I should note that Dick Maddox, Bill Bracy and John Brady gave us just about complete free-reign so that we had the support and resources necessary to complete the task. In return, we gave them the sales dollars and margins necessary so that we could do it all again the next year.

So that's the short version of how the freight cars, including the PS-1, came to be. I've got to say writing this was a pleasant trip down memory lane, and I'll admit I still get a kick out of seeing something with which I was associated at a local show... "Hey, I had something to do with that!"

Regards,
Todd Wagner
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Dunn:
Keith and others, with the 3 cars in the new catalog, I'm up to 57 cars. Do you have the same total?

Chris

Chris, with your list and the additions that others posted in this thread, I come up with 62. I haven't gone through Ed's list above yet to see if I missed any.

Here's my list without photos:

17275 New York Central(Pacemaker)
17276 Cotton Belt
17277 Rio Grande
17278 Western Pacific
17288 New York Central
17289 Great Northern(RED)
17290 Seaboard
17291 Rock Island
17292 Boston & Maine
17293 Illinois Central
17294 TP&W
17295 Santa Fe
17296 C&O(offered with locomotive purchase)
17297 Union Pacific(offered with locomotive purchase)
17298 Southern

Uncataloged Century Club II set 31731
17299 Virginian
27200 Wabash
27201 CNJ
27202 Reading

27210 Pennsylvania
27211 Katy(MKT)
27212 Rutland
27214 Chessie
27215 Rock Island
27216 Erie Lackawanna
27217 Frisco
27222 Santa Fe
27224 CGW DF
27225 Western Pacific
27226 New Haven
27227 Union Pacific
27241 C&O
27242 Lehigh Valley
27243 Southern Pacific
27244 Great Northern
27263 Polar Express - PRR
27265 Virginian
27271 B&O(B&O 2 pack 27270)
27272 B&O
27273 Ann Arbor(from Marquette Freight Set)
27275 Southern Pacific
27277 Western Pacific(part of Feather Route Freight Set 31796)
27298 BSA(Union Pacific)
27452 Northern Southern/ PRR
27453 Norfolk Southern
27856 KCS on pre-order
27876 State of Maine
27886 Great Northern(Blue)
27893 Grand Trunk Western

52310 TCA Museum PS-1(bright yellow car that matches other cars in their "work train." From 2004)
52325 Seaboard (TCA)(came in the 52312/52314 TCA "50th Anniversary" sets from 2004)
52483 Rutland (TCA)
52438 Southern (TCA) (2 car set)
52444 Southern (TCA)

PS-1 Type Listed as PostWar Scale 6464 Boxcar
27292 M&St.L (2 car set 27286)
27293 Rock Island
27284 Western Pacific (2 car set 27285)
27285 Great Northern

PS-1 Type Listed as Express Boxcar
27249 Great Northern Express
27250 CN Express
27251 Western Pacific Express
27266 PRR Express
Last edited by Michigan & Ohio Valley Lines
Chris, Keith and Ed: I believe the correct number is 62.

SRT: really nice modeling!

quote:
Originally posted by Dreyfuss Hudson:
Great list, great cars. Thanks.
How moronic is Lionel not to issue multiple road numbers with cars such as the SP Overnights and such. They ran trains of 20 -30 cars of those 'ghosts' from LA to San Fran almost every night. Lionel issues one number(!) Who makes these decisions?


Dreyfuss, even though I've been out of the train business since 2004, I take exception to your comments. While on the "outside," it's easy to take shots at a company when the perception that something "moronic" is being done. I know this because I was once a consumer myself, and many times wondered the same things.

With having managed over 1000+ projects from 1999-2004, I can say with some authority that it isn't as straightforward as one would think. More road numbers means more design, paperwork, forecasting, inventory and one (or more) additional SKU to manage. Does the incremental sales for additional road numbers pay off? In a few cases they did, but for the most part there wasn't a tangible benefit that overcame these negatives and more.

I realize that most forum readers will never have the first-hand experience, but trust me, it most definitely IS different when they're your bowling pins to juggle!

Regards,
Todd
PaperTRW/Todd:

While I can't speak for the rest of the forum members, I find your postings, especially this one, very fascinating.

I must confess, that I did a bit of project management for a camera company and I too find it frustrating when people just through out "why didn’t they just do xxx" Sometimes things are done for a reason that seem counter to what we as consumers "think" is the right decision.

However, moving on. I found your comment about the new trucks interesting because on this forum there seems to be an unlimited amount of discussion on the merits of Kadee couplers. One of the reoccurring points in favor of the Kadees are lack of need to "bash" the couplers to close. When I read those kinds of comments I just think, boy, "this guy has not tried any of the new Lionel couplers". I agree, they are so smooth both in coupling and free rolling operation, plus they stay closed when you want them closed and open VERY easily, just a great design. Maybe Lionel’s best-kept secret and clearly the best 3 rail couplers in the industry.

As always, thanks for taking the time to respond and giving us some insight as to what and how things work at the manufacturing level.

Charlie
[/QUOTE]
Chris, with your list and the additions that others posted in this thread, I come up with 62. I haven't gone through Ed's list above yet to see if I missed any.

Here's my list without photos:

17275 New York Central(Pacemaker)
17276 Cotton Belt
17277 Rio Grande
17278 Western Pacific
17288 New York Central
17289 Great Northern(RED)
17290 Seaboard
17291 Rock Island
17292 Boston & Maine
17293 Illinois Central
17294 TP&W
17295 Santa Fe
17296 C&O(offered with locomotive purchase)
17297 Union Pacific(offered with locomotive purchase)
17298 Southern
17299 Virginian (Uncataloged Century Club II set 31731)
27200 Wabash
27201 CNJ
27202 Reading
27210 Pennsylvania
27211 Katy(MKT)
27212 Rutland
27214 Chessie
27215 Rock Island
27216 Erie Lackawanna
27217 Frisco
27222 Santa Fe
27224 CGW DF
27225 Western Pacific
27226 New Haven
27227 Union Pacific
27241 C&O
27242 Lehigh Valley
27243 Southern Pacific
27244 Great Northern
27263 Polar Express - PRR
27265 Virginian
27271 B&O(B&O 2 pack 27270)
27272 B&O
27273 Ann Arbor(from Marquette Freight Set)
27275 Southern Pacific
27277 Western Pacific(part of Feather Route Freight Set 31796)
27298 BSA(Union Pacific)
27452 Northern Southern/ PRR
27453 Norfolk Southern
27856 KCS on pre-order
27876 State of Maine
27886 Great Northern(Blue)
27893 Grand Trunk Western

52310 TCA Museum PS-1
52325 Seaboard (TCA)
52483 Rutland (TCA)
52438 Southern (TCA) (2 car set)
52444 Southern (TCA)

PS-1 Type Listed as PostWar Scale 6464 Boxcar
27292 M&St.L (2 car set 27286)
27293 Rock Island
27284 Western Pacific (2 car set 27285)
27285 Great Northern

PS-1 Type Listed as Express Boxcar
27249 Great Northern Express
27250 CN Express
27251 Western Pacific Express
27266 PRR Express[/QUOTE]

You forgot the 52310 TCA Work Train PS-1 mentioned earlier. That would make a total of 63. The Wabash, CNJ & Reading cars should also be listed as part of the CCII VGN trainmaster set.

I might have a photo of the 17298 Southern PS-1, if not, I can send make one of my car.
I also have found Todd's input interesting. What might be more feasible, as to multiple road numbers, is to do what is done in the HO market, and make the car un-numbered and provide decals of numbers with the car to make it whatever number you want.

I don't have any first hand experience with train manufacturing but I have worked in automotive injection molding, and it is quite an undertaking to get an idea to fruition.

Great info Todd!

Cheryl
quote:
You forgot the 52310 TCA Work Train PS-1 mentioned earlier. That would make a total of 63. The Wabash, CNJ & Reading cars should also be listed as part of the CCII VGN trainmaster set.

I might have a photo of the 17298 Southern PS-1, if not, I can send make one of my car.

The 52310 is in that list...I just didn't put "Work Train"...I'll add that.

I copied this list from WORD. I had the four CCII cars listed in another color to show them as a set...they all came up black when I posted here. I will put a space below the fourth car. Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by Larry Neal:

Chris, with your list and the additions that others posted in this thread, I come up with 62. I haven't gone through Ed's list above yet to see if I missed any.

Here's my list without photos:



PS-1 Type Listed as Express Boxcar
27249 Great Northern Express
27250 CN Express
27251 Western Pacific Express
27266 PRR Express[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

Great information. It would have been really sweet if they had produced a scale woodside caboose! (and NOT the NYC one!!)
I believe at least the 27251 Western Pacific and 27250 CN Express cars are not PS-1 cars. Lionel product info is many times misleading or incorrect, there may be others as well.
Do all the box flaps say PS-1? That may be an addition to your list, box end image.
Great work by all here.
quote:
Originally posted by Lima:
quote:
Originally posted by Larry Neal:

Chris, with your list and the additions that others posted in this thread, I come up with 62. I haven't gone through Ed's list above yet to see if I missed any.

Here's my list without photos:



PS-1 Type Listed as Express Boxcar
27249 Great Northern Express
27250 CN Express
27251 Western Pacific Express
27266 PRR Express


[/QUOTE]

Great information. It would have been really sweet if they had produced a scale woodside caboose! (and NOT the NYC one!!)
I believe at least the 27251 Western Pacific and 27250 CN Express cars are not PS-1 cars. Lionel product info is many times misleading or incorrect, there may be others as well.
Do all the box flaps say PS-1? That may be an addition to your list.
Great work by all here.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Lima. This was one of the questions Chris had in his original thread. They look like PS-1s but aren't listed as such. So he gave them their own heading which I thought was a good idea. I don't have any of those express or the PostWar Scale 6464 cars to do a side by side comparison with a PS-1. It is hard to tell with the catalog/website images.
quote:
Originally posted by Jim S:
quote:
How moronic is Lionel not to issue multiple road numbers with cars such as the SP Overnights and such.

Funny, I've often wondered why that is. MTH, does it, Atlas does it, Weaver does it. You'd think Big L would sell more of an item if it was offered in more than one road number.


Yeah, especially for trains that ran 20 or 30 of the same exact car. For the people buying one, it wouldn't affect them, for the people who want to buy several - boy it is dumb.
Post

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