Lionel "Traditional Size" TMCC Diesels?

Well, they have some small switchers that are that short, as does MTH.  Here's a couple of each brand.

Lionel UP SW7 Legacy from 2018

MTH SW-1500 from the early 2000's.

Lionel has a whole family of these Pulmore powered models, this is one of the remakes with TMCC.

And of course, there's the MTH 44-Ton switcher.

Check out Lionel's Postwar Celebration Series.  These are remakes of postwar models and they feature TMCC.  I have several and they're very nice.

Here are two to get you started, one directly from Lionel, and one from a forum sponsor:

  http://www.lionel.com/products...diesel-2349-6-28519/

  https://www.grzyboskitrains.co...n-gp-7-tmcc-equipped

These may not be 1 foot in length however but there are others in the series.

Mike

Did you look at recent Lionchief offerings?

3 traditional sized NW-2 switches with TMCC, they go back quite a few years:

18978 C&O, Postwar Series, 1999

18582 Seaboard, Postwar Series, 1998

18959 New York Central, 1997

In addition to the Switchers, agree on the post above with the links. Check out GP7s and GP9s with TMCC. They may fit with what you're looking for.

Wow.  Thanks very much for all of this info.

I've looked at the Lionchief switchers, but they are all the over-scale 13 inch.  Nothing wrong with that, but they are too big for my layout.

There's a pair of traditional-sized Alco FAs with TMCC up for auction. That's pretty rare.

For diesels with TMCC in small size, the NW-2 and S-2 switchers are your best bet unless you can find Alco FAs.  Just about everything else is 13" or more. Same story for LC+.

Don't forget the 18479 "45" Green USMC and 18462 "44" Blue Army missile launchers (recommend the sound cars to go with them) and the couple of different Fire Car sets for fun TMCC options!

@Mannyrock posted:

Wow.  Thanks very much for all of this info.

I've looked at the Lionchief switchers, but they are all the over-scale 13 inch.  Nothing wrong with that, but they are too big for my layout.

The LionChief Plus cast-frame NW-2 switchers are EXACTLY the same as the Lionel Corp, Lionel/MPC, Lionel Train Inc, Lionel LLC switchers in length, height, and width... because they use the very same tooling!

Jon

Atlas has marketed SW models since 1998.  2001, Generic TMCC was added.

If we're expanding the field to fantasy pieces, don't forget the TMCC version of the missile launcher and it's matching sound car.

KoolJock,

So what is the total length of the Lionel Lionchief Plus NW-2 Switcher, from coupler to coupler?

My current NW-2 is from 1972, with plastic body, at 12 inches.  Are the new Lionchiefs using the same tooling that was used in 1972?

Thx,

Mannyrock

The LionChief NW2 switchers are using the same plastic body as the Post War and Modern Era NW-2's , with a die-cast frame like the originals had before they were cheapened down to stamped frames in the mid 1950's.  They've all been the same size, using the same body molds.

Jon

@Mannyrock posted:

KoolJock,

So what is the total length of the Lionel Lionchief Plus NW-2 Switcher, from coupler to coupler?

My current NW-2 is from 1972, with plastic body, at 12 inches.  Are the new Lionchiefs using the same tooling that was used in 1972?

Thx,

Mannyrock

Jon is correct.

This is my Lion Chief Plus NW2 Switcher. Exactly 12 inches from coupler to coupler.

Wow, thanks for this info.

Are any of the other styles of Lionel Lionchief Plus diesels this same size?

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Check out Lionel's Postwar Celebration Series.  These are remakes of postwar models and they feature TMCC.  I have several and they're very nice.

Here are two to get you started, one directly from Lionel, and one from a forum sponsor:

  http://www.lionel.com/products...diesel-2349-6-28519/

  https://www.grzyboskitrains.co...n-gp-7-tmcc-equipped

These may not be 1 foot in length however but there are others in the series.

@johnstrains posted:

Check out GP7s and GP9s with TMCC. They may fit with what you're looking for.

These "traditional" Geeps are scale size, 14.25" in length, coupler to coupler, so they're going to be well over the 12" length the OP is looking for.

Someone may have mentioned it, but Lionel has made quite a few LionChief Plus FA diesels, which are the small size version, and would be a good choice that would meet the 12" criteria. I'm not aware that Lionel made any TMCC versions of these, but they may have. It would have been a pretty tight fit for TMCC with RailSounds components back then.

Lionel 38210 PRR Alco AA units are TMCC, traditional sized (same size as Postwar items).

http://www.lionel.com/products...-dmy-a-1955-6-38210/

Also the LCCA New Haven, Burlington and Santa Fe Alcos are TMCC.

Thanks Ed,

I see that these Alco's have PullMore motors.  I have an NW-2 with a Pullmore, and it runs great, but only at medium to high speeds.  (Somewhat like Postwar engines, it just growls and stutters on low speed.)

One of the key things about getting a TMCC engine, is that you can set the control for low speed and the engine will stay at that speed.

So, my question is:   When you combine a Pullmor motor, with the TMCC system, will the Pullmor engine run smoothly at low speeds?     

I'm a novice to this, but I don't see how it could.  The TMCC would just be a constant low throttle device, and I don't see how a Pullmore would suddenly run well at low throttle.

Thanks for any info.

Mannyrock

I am new to Lionel trains and this group.  I have a TMCC New Haven Alco AA pair (LCCA set) with a Pullmor motor.  I also have a TMCC F3 with flywheel motors and Odyssey speed control, which will smoothly crawl at a snails pace.  The Alco with the Pullmor runs just like my other traditional Pullmor engines - it won’t smoothly crawl along and I have to milk the throttle (add power) when going around tight curves and through switches.

If I understand motor basics correctly, the Pullmore motors only have 3 windings. If you take of the brush holder, you can see them. Had they used 5 or 6 windings, it would run much smoother. Think of it as the difference between passing or carrying a 100 pound sack a ships ladder compared to post office steps....if you will. Finer= smoother

This , as you have experienced, is most pronounced at low speeds, almost as a chug-chug-chug. As speed increase, the shear velocity of the spinning ammture negates the effect, as the hand-off between windings becomes much more seamless.

Doppler, thanks for that excellent information.  I was on the verge of getting the Alco AA pair (Santa Fe) with Pullmor motor, but your info confirmed what I thought may be a problem.  Kinda defeats the whole point of the TMCC for me on that engine.

If you look around on the major auction sights, you can find several Lionel engines (New old stock), with Pullmor motors, without the TMCC, for pretty darned cheap.   I got my used1972-ish  VG+ NW-2 Switcher, with the Pullmor for around $15.00 at a flea market.

P.S. - I love your phrase "Milk the throttle. "  It's exactly what you have to do.

Mannyrock

Mannyrock

John,

I would LOVE to have that Lionel UP SW-7 Legacy.  But the danged thing costs almost $600!   That's more than I paid for my entire layout, including 60 feet of track, 7 automatic switches, the 1099 transformer, a Pullmore NW-2, a 1110 Scout Engine with tender, and 10 rail cars. 

You're giving me a hear attack. :-)

Mannyrock

I have four other Pullmor diesel’s that I picked up NOS from my local Lionel dealer, and they do well for what is expected of them.  He has other NOS Pullmor diesels with TMCC and RailSounds, but I’m not going to get one.  Although the sounds might be nice, it’s not worth the expense to me if it doesn’t have enhanced throttle control.  I’m going to wait and watch for flywheel motors and Odyssey speed control for my future “command” engines.

I also have a couple of Post War loco’s and I still like the traditional Pullmor engines.  I just don’t need TMCC to run them..., Greg

Mannyrock - I fired up an early TMCC GP-9 today, the "2380" Canadian Pacific from 1997. Hasn't been run in probably 5 years so I'm sure it could use a good cleaning and lubrication.  Running in TMCC mode with a CAB-1 and playing with the stall speed, it will run OK at slow speeds but not nearly as well as a can motor w/ speed control. Keep in mind I'm running on 0-42 curves. For the age of the loco, it ran quite well and still has a pretty decent sounding horn.

@Mannyrock posted:

So, my question is:   When you combine a Pullmor motor, with the TMCC system, will the Pullmor engine run smoothly at low speeds?     

I'm a novice to this, but I don't see how it could.  The TMCC would just be a constant low throttle device, and I don't see how a Pullmore would suddenly run well at low throttle.

Thanks for any info.

The best way to improve low speed operation of AC Pullmor motored engines is to add an ERR AC/DC Commander. This has been discussed before. Makes a big difference if someone wants to keep their Pullmor powered engine and spend a bit extra to make it run very well. This is from the ERR site:

"The patented (#7,132,807) AC/DC Commander with SMS* Technology^tm is the perfect engine upgrade for those who desire more speed steps than the usual 32.  The  AC/DC Commander is capable of operating in 32 speed step mode for speed profile compatibility with existing engines.  When desired, the  AC/DC Commander can be switched to operate with 100 speed steps.  The low end speed control performance is noticeably improved in this mode of operation.  Even AC motors can be set to "creep" down the rails!"