lionel transformers

I had a Lionel 180 brick tied into 2 channels of a TIU and a Z4000 into the other 2. There always seemed to be an issue with the channels associated with the brick. I didn’t need the power of another Z4000, so I purchased an MRC 270. Excellent transformer, no issues.

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@nsp154 posted:

I had a Lionel 180 brick tied into 2 channels of a TIU and a Z4000 into the other 2. There always seemed to be an issue with the channels associated with the brick. I didn’t need the power of another Z4000, so I purchased an MRC 270. Excellent transformer, no issues.

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• MRC - PURE POWER DUAL AC, 2

Do you mean the MRC AH601 Pure Power Dual?  (I don't find a MRC 270, but the AH601 is 270 watts, so maybe that's what you're referring to.)

My AH601 works with DCS and TMCC, and it's got plenty of power for running conventional.  They are available on the aftermarket at many different price points.  Just saw one in the for-sale subforum a couple of days ago.  There is a common failure point with the solder connections on the control buttons, but it's usually an easy fix. 

Yes sir.

If the LW doesn't have enough power, the next size up would be a kW at 190 watts. After that its the zw at 275 watts. The 180 watt bricks are also a great choice. Used with a power master the bricks can run anything. They also have very fast breakers in case of shorts.

If you don’t want to go ZW then get a KW. I had the MRC dual pictured above. It worked great until it didn’t. Took it in for repair but they couldn’t get parts. I now have a KW for my 5x9 Christmas layout and it is run by a rebuilt KW by Hennings trains. It has the better circuit breaker protection. This way you can run postwar and TMCC engines and not worry about frying your sensitive TMCC boards. I have two separate loops with 4 022 switches powered on the D posts, no issues. I run postwar, MPC, Williams, and the occasional lion chief.

I recently got the MRC dual transformer  Plenty of power and great whistles response  Don't know why Lionel keeps offering the CW80  It's a problem power source in my opinion

Bob,

The most recent old version of the CW-80 is Product No. 6-14198 and indeed seems to be problematic.

However, Lionel has recently spent money to upgrade the CW80's design, apparently substantially.  The Product No. for this new and improved version is now 1908080.  Are you sure that this new one is "a problem power source"?  Have you used one of these new ones to confirm that your conclusion is still true?

Mike

I've yet to see anyone with the new CW-80, I am a bit curious about it.  It's hard to imagine it's as bad as the old one, it might be a decent transformer now.

The expense of the custom transformer Lionel used before solid state, with an exposed secondary that a wiper traveled across to give you a variable track voltage, was replaced with an electronic set up using triacs.  This makes a very dirty AC signal, allowing the increasing AC voltage on the upswing of the AC waveform to pass to a level set by the throttle which is no more than a potentiometer telling an IC where to cut off the triac, then abruptly turning off and going to zero.  The more time the triac is allowing AC to swing toward peak, the greater the track voltage, where as before on older transformers, you tapped the secondary AC, and picked off a complete 360 degrees of the AC at any level of track voltage, which was very clean with no transients.  Those transitions from voltage to zero due to triac cutoff, can cause issues with electronics in some modern locos.

@Lennyski posted:

...run by a rebuilt KW by Hennings trains. It has the better circuit breaker protection. This way you can run postwar and TMCC engines and not worry about frying your sensitive TMCC boards...

Circuit breakers are the wrong device for this protection. You want transient voltage suppression, as the breakers let through/allow all damaging voltage spikes without tripping.

I think that is what he puts out in there. Next time I’m in I’ll ask him to be sure.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've yet to see anyone with the new CW-80, I am a bit curious about it.  It's hard to imagine it's as bad as the old one, it might be a decent transformer now.

I had a new Cw80, it lasted less than a year. It developed a problem where it was putting 20 volts to the track without even moving the handle!

There was a thread on the forum with how to fix it but I never did, it's in a box in my storage room ☹️

@Bob is cool! posted:

I'm running conventional post war engines, early and later tmcc engines on a 5X9 oval.. I tried using Lionel's CW 80. It seems that it can't handle the power demands of post war especially with F3 units and lighted passenger cars Also it has trouble getting tmcc engines programed. I've tried some other Lionel transformers such as LW 125 watt and 1044 90 watt. They work but have issues with tmcc and extended power and whistle issues What are my options to have consistent power and modern electronics without going to a big ZW?

Bob- I run my 4x8 with a KW. 2 tracks, lot's of switches and most of the lighting. Plenty of power for a small to mid-size layout. I run post-war to modern locos with no problems.

Adding circuit breakers and TVSS diodes is a must. I never realized how often I needed the breakers before I installed them.

I've looked at the MRC, it would be an upgraded from the KW.

The old CW-80's are good for doorstops...... not running trains.

Bob

@ArtsModelTrains posted:

I had a new Cw80, it lasted less than a year. It developed a problem where it was putting 20 volts to the track without even moving the handle!

There was a thread on the forum with how to fix it but I never did, it's in a box in my storage room ☹️

Search for Lionel CW 80 schematic, and one of the picture images has a complete schematic with parts ID if you want to attempt a repair.

@CALNNC posted:

Search for Lionel CW 80 schematic, and one of the picture images has a complete schematic with parts ID if you want to attempt a repair.

That's the schematic of the old CW-80, not the new redesign.  You're talking about this one, right?  I haven't seen any schematic of the new CW-80.

I hooked up my mrc. Engines and whistles now work fine. Tmcc start up also fine

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's the schematic of the old CW-80, not the new redesign.  You're talking about this one, right?  I haven't seen any schematic of the new CW-80.

<click graphic to expand>

Yes, that is the info I referenced.  Would be interesting to see what changes were made between the two versions.  Wonder if they just beefed up the transformer or maybe the triacs.  Need to find CDM from 4/23/05 and have him reverse engineer it again.

Personally not a fan of the KW. One of the two handles seems backward to me, so hard to get used to. It also doesn't turn off all the way unless you hold it off.

Not an issue with the original, but the guy who rebuilt mine put the diode in backward so the whistle lever operates the bell instead of the horn/whistle.