Lionel Vision Line UP Big Boy pilot deck after coolers

Lionel have stated in their descriptions of the Big Boy locomotives, that they are being made 'as delivered'. As these locomotives are all from the first batch, I would suggest that the catalogue art is correct.

Mr. Meixel raises an excellent question. It certainly does seem odd, to me anyway, that Lionel has specifically singled-out SEVEN of the eight UP 4000 class steam locomotives that have been saved & displayed around the country, so would it not be appropriate to offer the models in the same appearance as those specific seven displayed locomotives?

So then, customers that have specifically advanced-ordered the road number of their choice, mainly because THAT 4000 was/is the real locomotive that they have seen or touched, are sure going to be disappointed, aren't they?

Quite possibly, but Lionel have made it quite clear that the models will be 'as-delivered' and not necessarily as they are now. 

I kind of hope that the new models come with the condenser piping (as delivered), but it will be OK if they don't. I wouldn't kick it off the roster either way.

Rod

I should have said, in my first post, that Lionel is doing exactly what I am requesting with their new model of NKP 765 by providing two smokebox fronts, with and without the Mars light!

I think Lionel should provide the two decks, with and without the coolers and that WILL SHUT US ALL UP.

With all due respect, I really don't see the logic here. People here are always complaining about things not being prototypically correct, yet in this case you are saying they should look like they do today sitting in a museum. Are people planning to put this in a 1:48 museum on their layout which by the way is modelling 2014?

Are not most layouts generally modeling the 40's-50's, NOT 2014

>>Lionel have made it quite clear that the models will be 'as-delivered' and not necessarily as they are now. <<

If  "as delivered" is the case, then #4017 & #4018 should arrive with the modernized pilots. The other five earlier editions should arrive with the cooler piping exposed.

BTW, that is exactly the way the previous issue, the JLC in 2006 was delivered by Lionel.

Joe 

I like the modernized pilot which is prototypically correct. If Lionel wants to only offer them "as delivered" that's fine if they follow what JC642 has pointed out.  I was hoping to order 4014 but will switch to one of the others if required to get the modern pilot.

Since I model in the early to mid 1950s time frame, you are correct in stating that the Lionel "Big Boy" models should indeed look like they do today, in parks & museums. Why? Because the UP changed all the early 4000s (400- thru 4019) to function the same, and thus look just like the later 5 locomotives (4020 thru 4024). The UP made this changes to the first 20 locomotives in 1946!

HW, didn't know that, thanks.

Personally, I like them with the extra details. My TMCC #4006 is that way.

I don't really care if the model is like they sit now, as I've never seen one in person.  I just want a Big Boy.  But I am partial to the 1st as ordered batch with the cooling pipes on the front.  After some debate I ordered #4018.  It has been said #4023 isn't included since it was part of the 2nd batch which was different from the 1st batch, difference being the missing pipes.  Therefore I have been working under the assumption that all the 1st batch, which #4018 is a part, had the cooling pipes.  Now you're saying that they don't?  If I get to choose, I'll have pipes, but I won't let it stop me from getting and enjoying the best feature rich O scale Big Boy built to date.

That being said, this topic is really getting beat dead over and over.  I know Lionel guys are around here.  I really wish one of them would post and give the definitive answer as to why #4023 was included and wither all those they are making will have the cooling pipes or not.  This "as delivered" clearly is as clear as mud, and there is a lot of speculation going around that can be easily stopped.  How can Lionel not tell us exactly what they are making at this stage in the product process.  I work on product design for a living.  If we were this close to release and didn't know how it was going to look, I'd be shown the door.  This is a lot of money, and some people are really hung up on these simple details.  Lionel should really clear things up.

I have the JLC #4024 with the modernized pilot and my buddy has the JLC #4012 with exposed coolers.

BUT...Hot Water is right, only the last five BB's #2020-#2024 were delivered with the modernized pilot.

Therefore none of the VL BB's should have it.

Might want to look for the JLC model.  You'll get the modernized pilot you want plus a fully detailed tender with diecast auger assembly inside rather then a moving plastic coal load.   You'll save money to boot..

Sorry for the mix up.

Joe

I agree with the points above.  "Prototypical" is relevant directly to the Time Period you model.

This is why as a Union Pacific fan I model towards a target year of 1946 plus-or-minus a few years.  I like the 1946-1949 Two Tone Liveries, the Black & Yellow diesel switcher schemes, and it gives me enough wiggle room to use that Pre-war/War-time/immediate post-war "transition period" to run whatever I like.  I try to set 1950 as the cut-off, but honestly finding the matching time period rolling stock is more of an issue than the locomotives.

Everyone likes what they like and is entitled to their preference.  Mine is for the earlier pilot and as such I have the JLC #4012. If I bought another it would also be the same.

I will not order without knowing the definitive answer.  It is extra cost for Lionel to ship both versions with each model.  It is less extra cost to offer two pilot versions based on road number.

It is my belief that some folks who have preordered may cancel if they learn that the piping will be present with no Lionel-supported way to remove it.

Just my opinion, but you sort just contradicted your self, didn't you? Those cooling coil pipes were gone by the end of 1946.

Nope.

If Lionel does deliever them with the aftercoolers mounted on top I imagine it wouldn't be a terribly hard modification to remove/move them....emphasis on imagine. 

And it is mine that you are wrong.  I have only seen a small, but very loud and visible, group complain about the pipes being present.  Most people saying that they are getting it have either not commented about the pipes, or said that they were going to keep/enjoy the model anyway.

Well, there obviously quite a number of us, that fully agree with Mr. Meixel's belief/opinion.

Wow.

Cooling coils trump disappearing coal load.

Film at 11:00...

Rusty

Why not contact Lionel directly with your question, as they are the only ones that will be able to give a correct answer. They usually respond to emails.

For those ordering 4014 with the thought of having a model of the soon to be back in service engine even more modifications would be required including an oil bunker in the tender and the deletion of some external plumbing. Any speculation as to whether Lionel might release a modified 4014 or even a modified tender?

The cooling pipes isn't the only thing that the U.P. changed right away..the dynamo was moved from behind the second set of drivers engineers side to ontop the boiler towards the rear on the firemans side. 

I believe you'll find that the turbo generator relocation was only on the last five 4000s, i.e. 4020 thru 4024. The original 20 locomotives (4000 thru 4019) had the turbo generator in the congenital position, up on the boiler on the Fireman's side (just like the 3900 class Challengers). 

rtr12, in my original post I said that I had contacted Lionel and I included their response which provided no information.  I am trying to get the answer the correct way.  Since Lionel didn't answer my question I decided to come here to see if someone else, maybe a dealer, could get a useful response from Lionel.

John,

Sorry, I did remember reading that after I went back and read it again. Must have lost track of my thoughts somewhere while reading all the replies down the line, or read one too many other threads today. The old brain doesn't work like it used to sometimes.

Seems you are absolutely right about getting to someone higher up at Lionel for the correct answer.  Good luck with your answer, and please disregard my previous post. 

rtr12, no problem.  My brain also has its challenges!

Either way it will be an AWESOME model!