Look At That Cover

Thats exactly why I like the 3rd Rail stuff. Cast in detail like you mentioned, just is not for me either. I personally dont mind not having blow down, whistle steam and that sort of stuff if the level of detail is top notch.

I thought your wallet was closed for no whistle steam?

 

But on this point. The H8 is a nicely detailed locomotive. And I agree.

Have you purchased the Legacy H-7? The detail is just incredible.

And for some reason, not advertised by Lionel, they have yet again improved their sound. It will send chills up your spine when you listen to this one.

Lionel hopefully will continue this type of detail on their future locomotive releases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The JLC Challenger, H7 are some of the ones I have and the detail, sound are great. They don't have the steam effects as some of the newer models but with RS5 it works for me.

 

Don't get me wrong I love legacy and the steam effects and I have quite a few of them but like laidoffsick I am not married to the steam effects. Details and sound mean more to me. 

you are absolutely correct Eliot, I love mine and ran it for the first time in years at the club now that they have the TMCC/Legacy signal working great.

just remember to check the wiring harness where it passes the flywheel, I had to make a guard from a soda bottle on mine

There is detail and there is intricate detail and the JLC H-8 is unmatched for its high level of intricate detail.  Problem is, it is easily broken off as the engine suffers from a serious level of brittle diecasting.  Other then very careful handling, it is a beautiful model. Its only flaw is the wrong whistle. All H-8's had the Banshee type. '

Joe

 

Well, I thought the so-called 'pilot' models...unpainted, bare metal...offered by Lionel and MTH were intended to impress (?) with the level and difference in cast-on vs. separately applied detail castings. 

 

I would have to agree that Sunset/3rd Rail has an inherent edge on the detail mania...not counting Kohs offerings, of course!...but I'm well-impressed with the offerings so far.

 

What continues to bug me, though, are the big, bare screw heads that pop up uder scrutiny from time to time.  Hey, I know they've got to go tegether in some economical way, but the worker bees down the street who assemble micro-electronics work with smaller fasteners. 

 

Whatever....

 

I'm just thankful for the advances made in all arenas of this hobby....materials, details, drive trains, controls, sound, decoration.....the whole magilla!   Lots more room for improvement....you know, VL 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0....!

 

KD

Gee Scrapiron, I guess you didn't make it as far as page 38. 

But, on another note, you state,

quote:

it is difficult for me to imagine how much more detail one could see on a brass model on the section of the locomotive in this particular shot.

I guess that all depends on having a loco that looks to be a pipe fitter's nightmare. The C&O seemed to turn out engines like that. Other roads cleaned their act up. 

Kay Sara Sara (hic!)

The H8 looks fantastic.  Like you all, I love the detail.  Would much rather pay for a detailed model than new sounds or whatever.

 

Scratch building in brass has opened a new world of modeling to me.  I'm doing several UP steamers that have never been built in 3R "O".  I can add all the detail I want.  Maybe I'm getting to the point of taking this too serious .

 

I only have one 3rd Rail locomotive and it's fantastic in the detail department.  Wish i had more 3rd Rail stuff in my collection.

 

Here's a review of my H-7 if anyone wants to see it:

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...union-pacific?page=1 

 

 

I'm going to disagree just a bit.  I do think the cover photo is spectacular, but I credit the photographer more than Lionel.  The cover photo catches the model's best features (the front, with all its equipment) at an angle that makes the most of all that.  

 

I don't consider mine a particularly great model.  Maybe just barely average, and by that I mean Legacy average.    My biggest objection to it, is that the steam pipes to the front cylinders don't telescope and turn as they do on JLC Big boy and Vision Challenger: expect that at JLC and Vision prices, but will accept it not being there on $1200 locos.  

 

As to the level of detail compared to recent Legacy and Premier now, well, the Legacy H-7 is at least as good to my eye, and Legacy Mohawk slightly better, and the detail on the new MTH Premier ATSF Hudson - a lot better.

 

>>>The H8 looks fantastic.  Like you all, I love the detail.  Would much rather pay for a detailed model than new sounds or whatever<<

 

Could be its rough finish and all those tightly wound exposed pipes, but unlike other high end models including the Bigboy, the JLC H-8 looks as massive & menacing on a display shelf as it does running on a layout.

IMO, a simply beautiful model with looks that simply overpowers most other steamers.

Joe

I agree for the most part, the H-8 is something to behold.  

 

I haven't saw the cover yet, will check it out soon.

The H-8, both prototype and model, has more of its machinery exposed than BB; hence it has a more interesting look.

"I do think the cover photo is spectacular, but I credit the photographer more than Lionel."   Lee Willis

 

The photographer did a good job, however the photo does not add more detail than is already there. What does improve the look of an already beautiful locomotive is the weathering done here. The weathering is just enough to be noticeable and not overdone. 

 

The photographer got in close and, in so doing, gave us a good detail shot.

I would have just been happy if my copy of OGR would have showed up in the mail today. Just went and got the mail, still no OGR, maybe tomorrow. I have the digital subscription also, but there is something about the print copy that just isn't there in the digital version.

Lee,

Did you ever stop to think that the locomotive doesn't have pipes to the front cylinders that telescope? Even that H-7 is devoid of telescoping pipes to the front cylinders. 

I've pretty much been a Lionel fella for most of my years, but increasingly have found my locomotive dollars being spent with Sunset Models 3rd Rail.  I do like the various steam effects and all, but bottom line for me is reliability and detail and I have found 3rd Rail consistently offers both.  I love my Lionel locomotives, but as time has gone on I have focused on only three particular roads and 3rd Rail's focus has been on providing road specific locomotives and sometimes cabooses that offer fabulous detail.  The other thing I have found over time is that 3rd Rail is very committed to customer satisfaction like no other company that I am aware of.  During a conversation with one of their employees a while back I was told they (3rd Rail) take pride in keeping their locomotives running the rails and my experience has shown that to be true.  Here is a photo I posted last week on Weekend Photo Fun, but some may not have had a chance to see the photo of 3rd Rails latest B&O offering, the P-7e Pacific.  The detail, fit and finish are amazing and on top of that, it's a runner!  Bo

 

 

 

Here's another shot that I think provides a better rendering of the actual color of the P-7e.

 

 

"The NJ HiRailers the club that has Legacy  and TMCC working now?  If so what was the ultimate solution??"

 

Yup.  It was a combo of things.  We've been working on it for months now. One member in particular, Bob D, had made it his life's work.  We did 4 things primarily:

• We added ground wires in problematic areas (under overpasses, inside mountains, etc.)
• We ran U terminal wires from the Legacy base to a few areas on the layout.
• Most perplexing was moving the Legacy base to another outlet and things got much better right away.  
• We built, installed and intimately modified a 455Khz amplifier that was designed and posted about a while back by Jim Lefevre.  The amp at 1st did little but clean up the signal but was modified with Jim's help and increased the signal voltage significantly

We first started with Dale Manguan's signal strength meter to test the bases (which were good).  Bob then built a signal strength car based on some plans posted here. We then started using an oscilloscope to visualize the signal.  The scope proved especially useful as we able to instantly see changes as we added wires, moved the base and added the amplifier.   It allowed us to see both the TrackLink signal strength and how clean it was.  Before and after is amazing.  Twice the signal strength and much, much cleaner.  

 

Bottom line is for the last few weeks we've been happily running engines that would never run before.   i think the biggest example is the VL Centipede.  It's a diecast engine with a relatively small antenna.  Prior to Bob's work it would just sit and flicker everywhere on the layout.  Now I can run it around and around with no problems. We've run steam lash-ups and diesel lash-ups fine.  Both Legacy and TMCC (but not mixed yet.)

 

We still have a little work to do to add ground wires in problematic places (under mountains in particular) but we've light years ahead of where we were just a few months ago.

 

We're trying to talk Bob D into putting together an article about this.

 

 

You are correct, the weathering does help.  And it is amazin what a great photographer can do, whether the "portrait" is of a person, or a toy train.

 

As to detail, the H-8 looks really good because there is a lot of "stuff" there to detail.  I really, really, like steam locos like this, with lots of "stuff" attached at the front - I actually have little idea what some of the smaller pieces are in many cases, but regardless, when there is a lot of it it gives the loco a brawny, industrial look, which I really like that.  

 

That said, the detail on the H-8 doesn't strike me as better compared to how that stuff is rendered on some other recent models.  I bought the Legacy Southern Crescent and the Mohawk almost entirely because each of them also has tanks and pipes and  alot of other equipment tacked all over the front, giving them that same look (particularly when the SC is repainted black, it looks awesomely industrial and complex).  Overall, my 1650 is a really good model of an outstanding locomotive - don't get me wrong, but it never stood out for me as quite as good as the Mohawk's detail (it cost only $900), or nearly as delicately rendered as MTH's $1200 jewels: the European 241A and the  ATSF 3460s (which Illike so much I bought three): to my eyes their detail is every bit as good as 3rd Rail's ATSF 2929,  - maybe the prototypical accuracy isn't as good (I wouldn't know) but the delicate parts and amount of detail is must awesome. 

Big Jim, your personal record is awarded ten merits for Home Road loyalty. (Or, as we say in the Texas Panhendle, for riding for the brand what pays ya.)

"I will freely admit that I would MUCH rather have this level of detail with a Legacy loco for $2,000 than anythIng else. Of course, the Big Boy is great, but I had the Legacy Big Boy and though the detail level was excellent, I don't think it reached as high as the H-8. The tender trucks on the H-8, for example, are a work of art. I love the smoke the sound, blowdown, swinging bells, but when the power is off, there is the model. That's the heart of all there is for me."

 

Is the Allegheny really better detailed then the Big Boy, or is there more to model with the Allegheny? "More to detail" and "better detailed" are not the same thing. There is a world of difference between the two.

Just out of curiosity, I have kind of been following your efforts in bits and pieces, but had also lost track of things. Good to hear you are on the downhill side of things and have things working so well. There are definitely some really sharp folks in model railroading. An article about all this would be very interesting to read. Who ever said this was not rocket science? 

If it was rocket science we'd all have it figured out by now.  It's the voodoo part that keeps stumping us! 

My only gripe with this JLC engine is the weak and incorrect whistle, a trait shared by the last of the JLCs, the Legacy Big Boy.

 

This engine was one of a handful or two of the Lionel post-2000 diecast steamers with a fully round boiler. All of the JLC steamers had them but there were a few stragglers like the CCII NYC Niagara (and ESE Hudson), the NYC Dreyfus Hudson and the FEFs that come to mind. 

That plus, except for the last run of H-8 models, they all had 2-chuffs per revolution.

Weathered this for a customer a couple of years back.  I'm not a C&O modeler, but these are one impressive looking engine.  I think this was a Lionel, to be honest, I don't remember.  Doesn't really matter, they all look good.  Photos shot on Hot Water's Central Connecting Railroad. 

 

Regards,

GNNPNUT

 

 

Yeah, 1650 is Lionel.  I have one that is far too shiny and new looking!. The weathering really makes it stupendous.  Great work. 

I second the sound in the JLC Big Boy. Why only one speaker was used and the sound volume was reduced I cannot understand.

 

Yeah well J Daddy, you had to buy the AF Big Boy to get the proper whistle!

 

Anyway, getting back to the Allegheny, I think it had the best matte black paint job, something Lionel never really did again. At least as far as I know.

 

As for Lionel's articulated chuff, even when triggered by a 4 lobe cam on one set of drivers, could be more convincing, maybe with more driver phasing effects. Sometimes it sounds OK, but a lot of time it is more of an echo effect. Maybe Legacy could introduce a driver phase effect triggered by some keypad function.

An excellent suggestion! I've never quite figured out Lionel's attempt at simple articulated exhaust chuff sounds. MTH seems to have gotten that "in-sync/out of sync" variable chuff sound, but Lionel, even with Legacy, still leaves something to be desired on their simple articulated chuff rates.

gnnpnut,

 

Fantastic weathering job on that H-8.

Certainly one of the best I have even seen !

 

Scrappy