Loud Lionel radar tower - how to fix??

I'm really surprised that you've not received a response yet...!  Perhaps this question would've received more help on the Hi-Rail forum?

 

Anyhow, typically the buzzing noise associated with the rotating radar screen accessory is associated with the AC 60hz voltage being applied.  This is essential for an accessory such as the radar device because you're trying to get the movable item...the screen...attached to a steel armature plate to 'bounce' on the rubber finger grommet, thereby creating the rotating motion. 

 

More to the point of the noise, however, is that it can be exacerbated by a loose solenoid coil.  In other words, if the coil (intended to be stationary) is not firmly attached to its base detail, it will 'bounce' itself, adding to the overall buzzing sound.

 

Ergo, I would check to be sure that the accessory feature(s) that attach the solenoid coil is(are) doing so as solidly as can be expected.  I seem to recall that there is a large speednut which retains the solenoid canister to the upper platform.  If this is not firmly in place such that the canister can move you likely will have extra buzzing...sort of as you describe.

 

There are other issues related with the solenoid coil...loose windings, loose tape wrap, etc....as well as something on the tower assembly vibrating in a 'sympathetic' manner that can create extra, unwanted buzzing.

 

Some accessories that have solenoids can be silenced by the application of DC voltage.  The radar tower, requiring the 'bouncing' magnetic field interacting with the screen armature, is not one of them.  It must have AC voltage.

 

OR!....as covered in another thread and as I did with my Disney version of this tower...   I replaced the entire solenoid/armature plate device with a Faller slo-motion motor.  No more buzzing and no more worn out finger grommets.  But it's somewhat an involved project.

 

Then there are those for whom the cacophonic noises of trains and accessories in this O3R hobby are part of the 'schtick'....the more the merrier.  Some folks have been known to turn up the stereo....or turn down the hearing aid!!!

 

FWIW, always...

 

KD

I agree with KD as I replaced the vibrator in my MTH unit with the Faller as a result of participating in the other thread. It works GREAT and is dead silent. It's rpm number is also very prototypical. If you like to tinker, it's a great mod. 

 

Roger

Not long after posting this I opened up the tower thinking it might just be dirty. I had a major "WTF were they thinking?!?" moment when I saw that vibra motor. Honestly, what is Lionel's obsession with these things?? The Faller motor looks like a good solution and $30 isn't too bad since I only paid $40 for the tower (NIB, not used). Might look around some electronic shops first to see if there are any other comparable 12-16V AC motors that might also work. Thanks for pointing me to that other post!

I think you're going to have difficulty finding a better option than the Faller. If it's AC, it has to fall within an appropriate operating voltage and also have slow enough rpm. The DC motors can be used if you rectify the voltage etc., but then you're usually dealing with very high rpm. Look around on the Internet and you'll find them below 30 bucks. You will have to "play" with it a bit to get  the armature of the motor to attach to the shaft on the end on the dish, but it works great.

 

Roger

You are correct. Thought I could use a motor from a busted K-Line milk depot but that was a no-go. Just ordered the Faller motor. 

Good move.  Email me at the one in my profile and I'll send you a pic of the way I connected the armatures together. A real simple solution using the "foot" cushion from (I think) a cabinet door. I can send you one as I have more. But it's going to depend on what's underneath the top of your Lionel tower. KD described having to use a "bottle cap" to mount the motor. My MTH had a bottle cap like structure underneath that held the vibramotor. It had a hole in the center and was perfect. The Faller motor does have a little quirk but is dead silent and has prototypical speed. 

 

Roger

 

   Can any one post any detailed instructions on how to put one of these faller motors in,with pictures if possible?    Thanks for your help.

My motor is on order and I'll document the process step by step.

Gerald,

Is yours a Lionel or MTH version?

   Roger, mine is a lionel tower it was always loud i did not know there was anything that could be done for it.

Hi Gerald,

 

The vibramotors are terrible. Loud and inconsistent. The Faller works great, but you have to be willing to tinker a bit. Chis (SeattleSUP) has decided to try it as well. We're here to give you help if you want to do it. Can you describe exactly what the "motor housing" on the bottom of the top floor of your version looks like? KD, who developed the idea of using the Faller, used a bottle cap from a water bottle to attach the motor. Mine is an MTH and the motor housing is bottle cap shaped and was perfectly suited to attach the motor. So....the degree of difficulty will be determined by what you've got under there. 

 

The Faller motor is silent and spins at a prototypical rpm rate. It does have a little quirk which I have to put out here. When you turn it on, sometimes it doesn't go on. Again, I give KD credit for this....connect your tower to your accessory transformer. If the power to the transformer is set to around 14-16 volts and THEN you turn on the tower, 99 times out of 100 it starts. If not, hit the whistle button. If you can deal with the fact that this happens only occasionally, you're good to go and you'll be very pleased. I think it has to do with the reversing mechanism lever in the motor which I think is magnetically controlled. Sometimes it's not quite in the right position. You can always tap the dish, but if the transformer is closer to you, that works. But again, it doesn't happen often and it WILL start. 

 

Roger

I just looked at the schematic for the PW 197 version and the motor....197-26...has the perfect shape and size. The question is going to be....can the motor be removed from that "bottle cap" casing (like the MTH). If so, then it will be easy.

 

Roger

Anybody have a part # for the faller motor and where to get it ?  CRIS ??

Don't have the part # handy but go to Walthers.com and search for Faller 12-16V AC motor. They only carry one. Mine should arrive next week so check back next weekend as I post my progress.

THANKS Cris,  found it.  part # 272-180629  $28.99  im going to  order it as i have the same problem with my lionel radar tower.

Here's where I got mine:

 

http://www.trainmastermodels.c...sp?Search=faller+629

 

Roger

 

    High Roger,i just looked under the top floor & all i see is some round thing about 1" in diameter & sticking down about 1",sorry i don't know how else to describe it,perhaps i can take a pitcher and post it,although it's been awhile since i have posted any pictures.

Gerald,

Here's the schematic of  the PW version. Is that what the can looks like? Now, if the motor can be removed from the can, it will be fairly straightforward to mount the motor to it. If not, that can will have to replaced with a bottle cap. Are you good with tinkering? That's a decision you'll have to make before you start this and buy the motor. If you don't mind tinkering and modifying things, you'll be good to go. It's not a plug and play project.

 

Roger

   Roger i don't see the link for the schematic,i do like to repair things myself if it is not to complicated,i would have to see more details first before i decide to go ahead with this project.

Gerald,

Sorry.....left the link out. Here it is: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/accs/acc197p1.pdf

 

The motor will attach either to the can that holds the motor or you have to make a "can" out of a bottle cap. As I said, the MTH version motor comes out of the can. It's an easy attach then. So, either yourself or one of the other guys who are doing this project has to take apart the top of the tower and look at the motor mount and determine if the motor is removable. If not, you have to jerry rig the attachment point. There's also jerry rigging involved in attaching the armature of the motor to the shaft on the radar dish. I found an easy solution for that with mine, but I'm not sure if it will work for the LIonel. Someone has to get that can apart first.   You will also have to jerry rig a cap for the motor to cover it. None of this is rocket science or real difficult, but you will have to tinker and modify. The end result is well worth it.

 

Roger

    That's it Roger,i will take the tower off the layout & get a good look at it,then i will see if i can do this without making a mess out of everything i will take it off in the next couple of days i will let you know what i decide to do,meanwhile if you or any other forum members are able to post any step by step pictures of how to do this it would be a big help. Thanks for your help.

These are some pics of my tower. The first is a shot of the "foot" at the base of the dish. It will then attach to the armature. The second is a shot of the cap I made to cover the motor. The third is the finished product. Sorry, I didn't take any photos of the motor mount as I was doing it. Hindsight....

Here is a video of the tower in operation. The noise you hear is NOT the tower. That's dead silent. The noise is a NASA smoking tank car that's part of that Rocket Central, but not shown in the vid

 

Roger

   Is the first picture what it looks like before or after you made the change?

After. The dish has a shaft sticking out of the bottom. You need to attach the shaft of the dish to the armature shaft. The motor comes with a couple of attachments, but I found a better solution. What you see in that picture is a rubber "foot" from either a cabinet door or piece of furniture. I'm not sure where I got them, but they were in my parts drawers in the garage. I drilled out the top with a bit slightly smaller than the shaft on the dish and drilled up from the bottom with another bit (the armature shaft is alot thinner). Then all you have to do is squeeze them together. Easy. But part of the reason is I could leave the motor mount on my MTH in place and it became a perfect fit. Again, I don't know what the Lionel will be like (whether the motor can be removed from the mount). Waiting for someone to take their's apart.

   Thanks Roger,the more i look at what you post ,the more interest i have in doing this project, i will wait & see how this all plays out ,will be back tomorrow.    Gerald

  Well i took my radar tower off the layout & took a closer look at it,it looks like it is easy to get the motor off, but i am not sure how to put the new motor in, so i will wait to see if anyone with more expertise can offer more detailed instructions on how to do this.

Gerald,

You need to see if you can get the motor of the it's casing. That's the bottom line. If you can't, you'll have to do the bottle cap mod. The casing looks like a bottle cap and if the motor can't be removed, it has to be replaced by something (like a bottle cap) for the new motor to attach to. So....pop off the top floor and see what you can do.

Finished the painting and reassembled the tower. The motor produces a barely audible hum and rotates at just the right speed. HUGE improvement over the original. Why Lionel went with the stupid vibra motor in the first place is beyond me.