Mianne benchwork???

Cape Cod Northern posted:

Bob,

Thinking ahead to the next step, once you have assembled the benchwork and have it leveled, it is then the perfect time to run you main bus wires. With no tabletop, this can be easily done while you are standing up and have full access. You will be spending enough time underneath making all the connections. You can use the holes Tim has provided in the webbing of the beams or drill additional or larger holes as needed.

I’m running Battery-Powered, Remote-Control (PBRC) so no wiring to the track.  I may wire some turnouts and the turntable, and probably some buildings, so the holes will come in handy.

StrangeTrain,

Tim uses pictures of your finished layout at the shows he attends. People often ask if the product can be stained or painted. We show them examples of yours. We also refer to the pictures to show how you elected to incorporate display shelving into the benchwork. Great job!

Bob, even though I can't use Mianne for the garage, I'm anxious to see how your project goes when your order is delivered. As I said, I'm still considering it for my 2nd layout in the spare bedroom. I hope you'll continue posting photos of your progress.

Will do Dave.

I had figured out how many sheets of plywood I need for the top, but I need to recheck before I go get it.  I was thinking about using Homasote but I's till have to put something under it to hold it up, so I might as well just got with plywood.  I'll be using this anti-fatigue mat from Apache Mills (at Lowes) for my roadbed, cut and beveled into strips:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Apach...-By-The-Foot/3612682

Bob ... there is a copyright notice at the bottom left.  My guess is that Tim wouldn't mind since -as you say - it is good publicity.

Bob, something to consider when doing the decking is that the top of the legs will show unless you overlap the rails, etc. Here's a thread with some photos discussing this.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's a Catch-22 situation for battery powered pumps.  The really large marine pumps are great, but they'll suck the batteries dry in short order. 

I use the Basement Watchdog, it's been OK, but the charger seems to overdo the charging, I have to replace the battery about every three years, they should last a lot longer than that.

I use a standard electric pump in one sump well and a water driven pump in the other sump well. The electric one runs some when it rains, etc. The water one just keeps up with the ingress of water into the sump well. So I am pretty ok with that. We just recently got an automatic whole house generator and I am not sure what if anything I want to change.

Bob, thank you very much for answering my question. That might sound like a lot of money to some but I feel the savings in time and labor is well worth it. This comes from someone who feels that benchwork is least desirable part of this hobby. Just my opinion. 

Hudson J1e posted:

Bob, thank you very much for answering my question. That might sound like a lot of money to some but I feel the savings in time and labor is well worth it. This comes from someone who feels that benchwork is least desirable part of this hobby. Just my opinion. 

While it might sound like a lot of money to some, I'd venture a guess that it's certainly a boatload of money for the vast majority of this forum's members. I wonder what percentage of all model railroaders use prefabricated bench work vs. those who scratch build their own bench work. Since there's no company who manufactures prefab benchwork as their full time business, it's likely a miniscule percentage of all O gauge model railroaders.

cjack posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's a Catch-22 situation for battery powered pumps.  The really large marine pumps are great, but they'll suck the batteries dry in short order. 

I use the Basement Watchdog, it's been OK, but the charger seems to overdo the charging, I have to replace the battery about every three years, they should last a lot longer than that.

I use a standard electric pump in one sump well and a water driven pump in the other sump well. The electric one runs some when it rains, etc. The water one just keeps up with the ingress of water into the sump well. So I am pretty ok with that. We just recently got an automatic whole house generator and I am not sure what if anything I want to change.

With a well, the water powered one isn't really a viable option.

One possible issue with the water powered pump is if the discharge line gets plugged.  It just fills the basement for you, something that always gave me some pause!  I had one in my previous house, and I always kept it turned off unless the power failed and the sump alarm went off.  Then I'd turn it on and monitor it.

In our new house, we have natural gas, so I'm considering a whole house generator.  With that, I'd probably just drop a second electric pump into the hole and use that as backup.

Hudson J1e posted:

Bob, thank you very much for answering my question. That might sound like a lot of money to some but I feel the savings in time and labor is well worth it. This comes from someone who feels that benchwork is least desirable part of this hobby. Just my opinion. 

I certainly agree with you on time saved, also no measuring, cutting, sawing, sanding etc., so no sawdust mess all over the house. I have Mianne also and I think the price is fair for what all you get and time saved. I built my 6'x16' Mianne table (about $850 shipped) in about 8 hours a few years ago. That included a trip to Home Depot for the plywood and waiting for them to cut it into more manageable sizes. It is also made of poplar (hardwood) and mdf, better material than standard 1x or 2x spf framing lumber. I could have had double the size of mine for about the price of one Lionel Big Boy steamer. May not be right for everyone, but it was perfect for me! I have been very happy with it.

ogaugeguy posted:

Hudson J1e posted:

Bob, thank you very much for answering my question. That might sound like a lot of money to some but I feel the savings in time and labor is well worth it. This comes from someone who feels that benchwork is least desirable part of this hobby. Just my opinion. 

While it might sound like a lot of money to some, I'd venture a guess that it's certainly a boatload of money for the vast majority of this forum's members. I wonder what percentage of all model railroaders use prefabricated bench work vs. those who scratch build their own bench work. Since there's no company who manufactures prefab benchwork as a full time business, I'd guess it's less than 20%.

Id figure more like 10%.  I kind of like the feeling of saying "I built that" instead of "I bought that" . Anybody with money can buy it. But anybody with money cant build it. And I've seen some awesome bench work done DIY.  Many here on this site. Some may consider no fun. But I really enjoyed it.  My son and wife helped me build it. Good family time and memories!  Built mine in about a week, so how much time is saved when waiting 5 weeks just to get the product?

 Now the liftgate is another story. My brother says he can build one.  But that may be easier to buy.   Still considering that. 

Now quality or strength?  I'm over 200 lbs and I have been on top of mine many times.   My brother is a bit lighter but walked on it for 2 hours yesterday redoing the wiring in the ceiling where I took down a wall.  

Disclaimer:  I install auto glass, build decks, buildings, and just installed a second floor in my Dads shop.  

Jim : )  

I'm guessing that EVERYBODY who has "bought" benchwork has at one time or another also "built" benchwork.  My current layout is my 6th "built".

I've basically stopped buying trains, after buying 20 engines and 100 pieces of rolling stock I really don't need any more.  The one thing I will be getting is the Silver Meteor from GGD.

What I've learned in this or any hobby is that, if you want it bad enough, money is not an object.  The price of this Mianne benchwork is the same as buying a 10-car passenger train from GGD.

All depends on how you want it

I agree Bob. If someone really wants something they will find a way.

Just my opinion but I feel that if the hobbyists goal is to build a layout in a reasonable amount of time at least a few things have to be farmed out. I have bought three things for my layout that I consider to be very expensive. I certainly do not have deep pockets. For these three things, which were a Ross Transfer Table ($1100) a Millhouse TT ($1700) and a set of GGD aluminum cars ($2K) I saved for literally years to get the money. None of these were bought recently.

I also agree that most model railroaders build their own benchwork. I feel this is because most of us can build benchwork and the hobbyist is willing to trade their time and labor to save the money over buying prefab benchwork. But for those who can't build their own for whatever reason I think the price is fair.

Am I able to build the benchwork? Sure!  Am I physically fit enough to build the benchwork?  Sure!  Would I rather buy the Mianne stuff and bolt it together?  YES!  

I don't get that big a kick out of building the basic benchwork, so I'd rather buy it and save some time in that step.  It'll also be a lot less mess in my carpeted trainroom.  It's a personal choice each of us make.

For all you folks looking down your nose at us for not building the benchwork, how come you don't fix and upgrade all your own engines or design custom circuits for them?  Face it, each of us enjoys the hobby in a different way, some of us like to pound nails, some of us like to build electronics, work on mechanical upgrades, or do scenery.

I notice a lot of folks buy the electronic products I design, but I don't look down my nose at them, I simply realize that's not a part of the hobby that they want to invest their time in, and they'd rather simply buy the capability.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, it's how it should be.  I pay for things that I don't want to build myself, and I don't feel bad about it at all.

I agree with John. Though I haven't bought Mianne yet, just the hassle of getting good wood, going through all the steps of measuring and such, its just easier to get it already made. As John says, we all have our own way of doing things, what we like, etc., etc. It is just personal preference. If you can build it on your own and like doing it, more power to you.

No insult or looking down my nose at anyone. But comparing skills in electronics to basic building skills is a bit of a stretch lol   I really appreciate your skills in electronics John!  That is a specialty!!  Sorry if you took anything as an insult.  

Jim 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Am I able to build the benchwork? Sure!  Am I physically fit enough to build the benchwork?  Sure!  Would I rather buy the Mianne stuff and bolt it together?  YES!  

I don't get that big a kick out of building the basic benchwork, so I'd rather buy it and save some time in that step.  It'll also be a lot less mess in my carpeted trainroom.  It's a personal choice each of us make.

For all you folks looking down your nose at us for not building the benchwork, how come you don't fix and upgrade all your own engines or design custom circuits for them?  Face it, each of us enjoys the hobby in a different way, some of us like to pound nails, some of us like to build electronics, work on mechanical upgrades, or do scenery.

I notice a lot of folks buy the electronic products I design, but I don't look down my nose at them, I simply realize that's not a part of the hobby that they want to invest their time in, and they'd rather simply buy the capability.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, it's how it should be.  I pay for things that I don't want to build myself, and I don't feel bad about it at all.

I bought the Sievers Benchwork from Washington Island, Wisconsin. Clear 1X4 pine essentially, all predrilled, modules ready to screw together and then bolt together. I walk on it. Very easy to change the layout as well since the modules are somewhat generic sizes that all bolt together. It always came in about a week if the lake was not frozen over and the ferry was running.

As to buying the pre-made electronics, I find it convenient, and in the case of what is developed here, I like to support the research . Especially when there are many of the same modules, it’s great to have them made for you.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Bob, something to consider when doing the decking is that the top of the legs will show unless you overlap the rails, etc. Here's a thread with some photos discussing this.

Dave,

Tim mentioned that and took appropriate measures.  I'll probably have a 2"-3" overhang all around the layout.

Tom Tee posted:

Thought:    The Mianne lift gate is great.  The lifts I have seen on this site have been wonderful.  I made several myself.  

However, IMO..... PLEASE, if at all possible, consider designing your layout so NO lift out is needed.  No matter how well they work they are a practical nuisance to work with.  Every time you want to pass the area, the bridge or what ever must be activated.  Trust me, it gets old.  Kinda novel to demonstrate to visitors but then it becomes a second mother-in-law.  Just something else to deal with.

 

Excellent point.  My problem was to keep the outside loop curves 072 or larger it would have taken nearly the whole 17x11 room! : ) 

Jim

My current layout has a drop-down section containing a Wye, no matter which way they move they're a PITA:

The Wye will be gone with this new layout plan I'm getting the Mianne benchwork for.

I have thought about that and when I am in the phase of building my benchwork, I am planning on getting an estimate from Mianne and also estimating how much the lumber would cost me if I bought it at my local lumberyard (the quality of lumber at HD and Lowes around me is so bad, the time I lost finding good quality wood among the slag isn't worth the difference in price). When I do the estimate for my layout (which will be 9x13, U shape) I'll post the estimated price both ways, so people have an idea of the difference.

Bob Delbridge posted:

Tim mentioned that and took appropriate measures.  I'll probably have a 2"-3" overhang all around the layout.

Glad to hear that, Bob. I'm sure you're going to be happy with your purchase. I've never heard anyone say they'd DIY if they had it to do over again.

bigkid posted:

I have thought about that and when I am in the phase of building my benchwork, I am planning on getting an estimate from Mianne and also estimating how much the lumber would cost me if I bought it at my local lumberyard (the quality of lumber at HD and Lowes around me is so bad, the time I lost finding good quality wood among the slag isn't worth the difference in price). When I do the estimate for my layout (which will be 9x13, U shape) I'll post the estimated price both ways, so people have an idea of the difference.

 

That's about what I built.   Mianne around 1600.00..   As you can see by a quote posted in this post.  Built out of 2x4s with 2x3 bracing, complete with plywood top.   175.00.  But I did have all the screws already.  Please post what you figured out. 

Jim 

BTW, on my Sievers Benchwork, I used 1/4 inch pegboard and an indoor- outdoor grey carpet over that. I don’t do much in the way of grass, gravel, etc. I can walk on it (abt 185 lbs) and can pass a wire thru the table anywhere by simply poking a hole through the carpet in line with a pegboard hole which occur every inch. I think it looks pretty good with the Fastrack which is the same color as the carpet.

cjack posted:

BTW, on my Sievers Benchwork, I used 1/4 inch pegboard and an indoor- outdoor grey carpet over that. I don’t do much in the way of grass, gravel, etc. I can walk on it (abt 185 lbs) and can pass a wire thru the table anywhere by simply poking a hole through the carpet in line with a pegboard hole which occur every inch. I think it looks pretty good with the Fastrack which is the same color as the carpet.

Hey that is a sneaky good idea!!!  

Jim ! 

Called Mr. Foley this morning, he said my order should ship in approximately 2 weeks!!!

Time to start tearing down the old layout

There's no doubt Mianne is a high-quality product. I bought my benchwork from Tim about 3 years ago, and am very happy with the end result. It's solid, easy to assemble, and in the unlikely event that I get out of the hobby, it should have some resale value. I could've built my own, but like Gunrunner, I didn't want the mess in my newly-built, carpeted train room. 

John

John, I agree with not wanting anymore mess.  Plus IF I ever get out of the hobby I can always use it for another purpose.

STE posted:

Bob,

Here is some pic’s of my 10’ X 21’ x 30” Mianne around the room layout. I just started to put it together. I used 1/2” MOD 7 ply plywood for the top. It stands alone as the other guys said it’s real steady once the plywood is on. I’ll be working on it tomorrow. 

Nice looking layout have something similar in the works in my garage. I was going to use Sievers  benchwork. This is a good consideration. Is your layout a reverse loop if so where are they? thanks for your help and good luck with thee layout. Rich 457

Mianne has a nice product. My problem was they would not return phone calls or emails. I gave up and stick built with brother-in-law. We had a blast doing it. 

Called Tim this past Wed/Thur and he said it should be ready to ship this coming week.  If anyone plans on getting Mianne benchwork be prepared to wait 8-10 weeks.  I called him every 2 weeks just to check on the progress.

I'm getting new carpet in the house next week (if it doesn't rain much) and EVERYTHING small has been moved upstairs into the train room.  Even if the benchwork comes in next week it'll have to stay in the boxes until after the carpet is down and all the stuff is back where it belongs.

Since my home renovations contractor insisted on doing the basic benchwork for my new layout for me, and since I previously used Mianne benchwork (which I like a lot) at my previous residence, I have a good amount of Mianne benchwork available that I will be selling. Will post something on our forum buy/sell board in the next few days. Will be available for delivery to York Meet ONLY because there is no way I am going to pack up all those pieces for shipping.

I was--still am--very satisfied with the Mianne product. Easy and actually FUN to put together. Will still be using some for a planned Z scale empire that I hope to put in the luongearea adjacent to the O gauge layout room.

IC Gulf posted:

Mianne has a nice product. My problem was they would not return phone calls or emails. I gave up and stick built with brother-in-law. We had a blast doing it. 

 

Same problem here. E-mails and phone calls. No response. Guess I will go with Sievers.

I did Sievers and found it to be excellent. Shipping was about a week. Modular, so you can vary after getting the order if you want to change something.

Got 6 heavy boxes off the UPS truck yesterday!!!

Problem is the house is so tore up right now (getting carpet put down) that I won’t be able to start assembling anything for at least another week 

Finally got carpet down and all the house stuff back in it’s place.

 I’m beat (must have climbed up/down the stairs 100 times) but managed to assemble all the “leg sets” called out on the plan today.

Next up will be joining the leg sets together to form the framework.

This Mianne benchwork goes together like furniture.

Hope to take some photos once things really start to come together.  I want to assemble the frame to make sure everything fits and determine where the low point in the room is so I can have an idea when I adjust the feet, then I’ll get/cut the plywood to put on the top.

I've got most of the framework in place, waiting on the plywood for the top, here's some quick pix

The plywood shown is from the old layout, used to store stuff on while I worked around the room.

Man, this Mianne stuff goes together easy and quick, rock solid too.  Just across from the white post on the lfet in the last photo is the highest spot in the room, I had to adjust the feet on all the other legs to get it level.  Once the plywood is in place I'll recheck so all is level.

I made a mistake and had to make an adjustment.  Left of that white post is a boxed in area (covered in beige carpet) that covers heating/AC duct work coming from downstairs.  I could have cut the legs to fit, but decided to use them as they came, I'll attach a 1x4 to the wall (I had a 2x4 there on the old layout) so the top will go all the way to that wall left of the post.  It'll actually make that part of the layout top about 15" wider, always a good thing right?

I should be getting the plywood tomorrow, so by tomorrow night I should have a couple of pieces in place.

I don't know I Tim Foley visits here but I hope he does and sees how nice his creation looks,thanks Tim!

Bob,

With your input, it looks like the benchwork fills the room out wall to wall and you will quickly be on to the next step in the construction of your new layout.  I spoke with Tim a few days ago and he is extremely busy attempting to complete a lengthy list of orders as well as getting ready to head down to York. I know he does not have the time to visit the forum all that often so I emailed him a link to your post. I'll be seeing him a week from this Wednesday when we start to set up the display in the Orange Hall.

Bob, you've done a nice job with your support structure a.k.a. bench work. How do you plan to turn the train ? Will you close the mainline loop with a duck under or lift gate of sometype ?