MILLER SIGNS ELECTRICAL QUESTION

The Miller signs take 4.5 Volts DC, and the accessory outputs are what?

You either have to use their wall adapter that plugs into an "MTH style " terminal strip.

OR:

Their website Miller Engineering now shows a converter which allows you to use transformer voltage.

I use a post war Lionel ZW transformer and the accessory post for several accessories.  The Miller signs will have their own separate accessory posts on the ZW.

Miller signs require 4.5 volts DC.  Transformer accessory taps are AC.  Wait for Miller to get you a new power supply.

Thank you Danr.  As I told Chris at Miller, I am electrically challenged.  I know enough to be dangerous.  So, you are saying that the ZW is an AC power supply?

As long as you put the converter posted above between the transformer and the signs your fine.

The signs run off of 4.5 v DC as Millers website and Chuck indicated above. The do not operate on your AC transformer accessory output.

Miller Signs 4.5v DC

Most Lionel accessories 12-14v AC

I believe the converter is a "new" thing, in the past the only options were the wall pack or battery power.

Millers signs are great, I prefer them on the seperate wall pack. IMO, Less chance of a short somewhere else on the layout taking out the signs too.

Thank you, RickO.  I have an old HO transformer which is DC.  Will the Miller signs run off that without using the #4804 converter?

I have a number of MTH buildings with Miller signs.  In each building I added a rectifier and constant voltage circuit set to 4.5 volts for the Miller sign.  Each building is independent and just plugs into the AC accessory line.  Adjusting the voltage for the lights has no effect on the Miller signs.

I just thought it wou be easier than pulling both an AC line and a DC line to each building.

I would think as long as you set the voltage with a meter you would be fine.

Thanks to all who responded.  I learn a lot each day.  If the 3 batteries I had been using put out 9.3v of power, how come the sign does not fail if it is supposed to just get 4.5 v ?

Most battery cells are 1.5 volts nominal each. How are you getting 9.1? I guarantee that 9.1 will harm the miller signs.

Then ima gonna definitely have to recheck that cjack.

AC and Miller signs DEFINITELY do NOT get along! DC only! I found out the hard way...

Chris

LVHR

You may have to add an external capacitor (470uF - 1000uF @ 16VDC or higher) across the HO pack AFTER checking the terminal polarity, capcitor + to pack terminal +, - to -.  Suggest taping or blocking packs direction control to prevent accident reversal.  Use meter to check the voltage is nominally 4.5V.  Also add up how much current each sign uses to verify the total does not exceed the packs current output.

The Miller Engineering 4804 sells for 12.95 & will power up to 6 signs.  Works great.  I bought mine on Amazon the shipping was cheaper.

Ken M

Quick/dumb question: does everyone simply cut the plug off the converter and then splice the converter and module wires together?

No. I mount the converter, wire it to a barrier strip, and run several 4.5vdc wires from it to the signs.

If you're willing to do some DIY wiring and eBay, an alternative to the 4804 are voltage converter modules from eBay.

1.  If you have a DC source such as from a 9V or 12V wall-wart adapter module you can use a DC-to-DC converter module (about $1).  You will need a meter to initially set the module output to 4.5V.  If you don't want to cut the plug from the wall-wart cable there are adapters to convert the plug to screw-terminals.

2. If you have an AC source such as from the 14-16VAC accessory output of many train transformers you can use an AC-to-DC converter module (about $3).  You will need a meter to initially set the module output to 4.5V.  These converters actually accept AC or DC so the source can be a DC wall-wart, HO transformers, etc.

The Miller site notes animated signs require about 95mA of current.  Either of these converter modules will supply at least as much power as the 4804 module - that is 6 signs (or more).

As direct eBay links are subject to deletion on OGR, simply search eBay for "LM2596 DC DC module" or "LM2596 AC DC module".

I use buck converters. Here is a link as to their use.

LINK

Dale H

Thank you, but I'm confused. How does the plug fit into the 4804 module? It may be that mine is an older version.

I run all my Miller signs with 5VDC from a computer power supply a friend gave me. 

Thank you all. I had no idea such things as buck converters, etc. existed, let alone how to use them.

If you use a 5V supply, I recommend you use a series diode to drop it closer to 4.5 volts, that's what Miller specs.  They may run at 5V, but I suspect if that was no problem that Miller would have used 5V for their supplies.

I would stick with 4.5, but the 4.5 comes from the three AAA cells probably.

Thanks for making the Amazon comment Ken.  I just bought one from there after reading your comment.

It cost $15.45 with free shipping.

- walt