Modifying a tender on a Lioncheif locomotive - Updated 10/28 Paint Stripping

I haven't used a hot knife; seems risky.l for this as a chisel might do it cleanly if the plastic is flat. 

I would chisel the ladder most of the way and maybe file with a flat curved file. Use the widest chisel blade to start and end with the pen size or file. Once close, stand the blade and scrape lightly. Scraping or cutting will leave smooth surfaces with care. But you might need to sand and use model putty like bondo on low spots; nicks; (but you can't leave high spots from the ladder at all. Better too deep and filled.)  Filler primer only sparingly. It gums detail. (maybe after putty filler on deep stuff, for needing a final skim as skimming putty extremely thin can be a pita when sanding.(chunks off easier, doesn't feather sand as well as filler primer.) 

If you sand on flats, never use fingers, always a block. Glass is a fav. (microscope slides and welding glass). A single sheet glued down is best. Small electronics heat sink bottoms are nice and the fins make a nice grip. The key to making sandpaper last and work best is full cures, and knocking dust off the paper as often as possible.

NO Hot Knife! Geez!!! 
You'll wind up gouging the body then there is more body work filling in and smoothing the rut you dug for yourself!

Hey guys.  So when I was asking about the hot knife, it wasn't for removing the tender but how to cut the Plastricstrut sheets.  I wouldn't put a hot knife anywhere near the tender itself!

Cut plastic sheets by scoring once or twice with exacto knife and bend it to break at score line ,just like cutting drywall !  practice and youll find it very easy

real thick plastic may require extra scoring

Ok it has been awhile since I have had time to work on this project.  I am off of work for the rest of the week and I hope to get like 80% done on this project while I am off.  

Tonight I cut the tender back off from the shell I plan to use.  I also removed the tender deck behind the coal pile. 

I still need to get the glue that I will use to join the two ends.  Tomorrow will be a quick trip to Granger to take care of that by getting some Loctite 380.

I might also head to P&D to see what they have for the water fill doors as the ones that were on the tender were in the wrong direction and were too short. 

Be sure to add some reinforcements to the inner walls where you're splicing the two pieces. Looking good so far. As to the Loctite 380, Gunrunner John first made me aware of it and it's my go to adhesive these days for tough situations.

modeltrainsparts posted:

Be sure to add some reinforcements to the inner walls where you're splicing the two pieces. 

Yup reinforced!  Also cut the frame today.  It was also plastic.  What was nice was there was no electronics in the tender, only the speaker.  Easy to remove and replace.  

After the frame is all glued up tonight I will look at attaching the 6 wheel trucks I purchased. 

modeltrainsparts posted:

As to the Loctite 380, Gunrunner John first made me aware of it and it's my go to adhesive these days for tough situations.

Too bad it's so stinkin' expensive!

Ok a little more progress today.  I finished "stretching" the frame.  I also located where the trucks will be under the frame.  I am converting from 4 wheel trucks to more prototypical 6 wheel trucks.   Why they are not the "buckeye" type, they look much better then what she had when I got her. 

Here is a few shots of her sitting on her trucks while behind the locomotive. 

I am also taking this time to shorten the distance between the tender and the locomotive.  While I can not go too short, as I have steep grades and some sharp curves on my layout, I can make it look much better then stock.  

Tonight I will put some putty between the gaps of the cut lines and build it up layer by layer.   I will then work on removing the lettering and adding primer.  

I still need to get some more sheet plastic for the top of the tender deck.  

A lot accomplished today.   

I finished the frame 100%.  I mounted the trucks and couplers.  I also created the tender deck from some cardboard stock.  This is just temporary as I will make a permanent one out of plastic.  

I used some body filler in the seams and on the back of the tender where I removed the ladder.  I still have to add a few more layers today and keep sanding it smooth.  Hopefully by the end of the night I can add a layer of primer to the whole shell.  

I also ordered some water tender hatches.    

I will add a "real" coal load after the whole thing is painted, lettered, clear coated, and weathered.  

Here is a few photos and a short video of her running.

Enjoy watching you project starting to com together. Once done you will have a nicer looking tender which will go much better with the engine then the original did..................Paul

Big Jim posted:

 

Forget that Dremel stuff, it's just an accident waiting to happen, you'll see when it goes buzzing across the part you want to save.

I really should have listened to you on this!   Ruined the shell while trying to cut away the old tender deck.

At least I have a 2nd shell to use.  Already been cut to fit.  Just have to file away a bit more to get a much better seam.  I think I can make it look better then the original.  

Even little grinders should have the piece locked down and tool be held firm, like it was a rifle or pistol that might discharge at any second.

I lost 2 front teeth to a big one when the clamped piece broke loose and the tool bounced it clear off the concrete, right back into my face (5ft or so each way) And a year or two ago got sloppy with a dremel held loosly and cut my belly pret5y goodgwith a runaway disk.

  Keeps your eyes (and body) well out of the disc's rotational plane too! View from the sides only. If they shatter you'll be glad. And they CAN shatter without even a contact to something. 

Use the reinforced disks for cuts, and save the ones without fibers for lighter work where the disc doesn't need to be sunk in like they do on long/deep cuts.

I have thrown unopened tubes of the sandstone one's away they have so little safe uses.

I've had my share of minor mishaps with the Dremel, but I still use it a ton.  However, it is really easy for it to get away from you, especially at high speeds and with hard materials.  I haven't wrecked anything major yet, but I suppose my turn is coming.

If anyone needs the standard Dremel cutting wheels, I have a ton of them!   I can't remember the last time I used one of those, I stick strictly to the reinforced ones, and they normally don't come apart.  I have seen it once, don't know if it was just defective, operator error, or what.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've had my share of minor mishaps with the Dremel, but I still use it a ton.  However, it is really easy for it to get away from you, especially at high speeds and with hard materials.  I haven't wrecked anything major yet, but I suppose my turn is coming.

Let's hope not. 

Years ago, I purchased on the those foot-operated speed controls for my Dremel; one of the wisest buys ever. I've found a couple of "sweet spots", speed-wise, so I have several sizes of wood I just chuck under the foot pedal for the correct speed I need.

For more control and on harder stuff, if possible I use my desk-top drill press...

Mark in Oregon

Luckily I had a spare shell to use, I just hope my son doesn't look to run his Polar Express set until I get a new shell for it!

It is all back together now along with a tender deck.  I just applied putty to the seams and it should be good to sand in a few hours.  

1st Coat of paint on.   I do not like the way the tender deck behind the coal bunker came out.  I will be ripping it off next week and re-doing it.  I need to head to P&D on Monday to get some thinner sheets of plastic to remake it. 

I was able to to make it to P&D Hobbies yesterday and picked up some much thinner plastic and cut it how for the tender deck.  I had ordered a water hatch from Precision Scale from eBay and it came today.  It is all glued up and I plan to prime it tonight before bed.

Friday evening I will decal the tender and clear coat it over the weekend.  I ordered some Pan Pastels for weathering and will practice on some junk locomotives that I have before I attempt to weather this tender.   After it is all weathered I will then add a real coal load.   

That's looking really good.

How fortunate you are to be able to "...make it to P & D Hobbies yesterday..." 

Mark in Oregon (a long way from P & D Hobbies)

Strummer posted:

That's looking really good.

How fortunate you are to be able to "...make it to P & D Hobbies yesterday..." 

Mark in Oregon (a long way from P & D Hobbies)

Yup only about 2 miles from my work!  

It has been interesting watching your project take shape......Paul

Huge setback tonight.   I had the whole tender painted a satin black.  I used Krylon spray paint to do it.  I wanted to decal it on Friday evening and so I needed to add a glass coat tonight so it would be all dried and ready for decals.  I used Krylon clear gloss coat.  After about 15 seconds of my spraying it the whole tendered developed bubbles all over it.  I think that the paints interacted with each other!   

I will need to get something now to strip all the paint and then re-paint it.  I might have to run to P&D and get Testors gloss black this time and use Testors dull coat after the decals are set.  

Wow...sorry to hear that.

It seems odd that (2) Krylon paints would not be compatible...hope you're able to strip it off safely, and that the stripper doesn't attack whatever adhesive you used to piece together the body.

Keep us posted!

Mark in Oregon

Strummer posted:

Wow...sorry to hear that.

It seems odd that (2) Krylon paints would not be compatible...hope you're able to strip it off safely, and that the stripper doesn't attack whatever adhesive you used to piece together the body.

Keep us posted!

Mark in Oregon

I am very surprised they were not!   Now to find something to strip the paint.

There is plastic compatible paint stripper available. Can't mix lacquer and enamel together. I would not use testors dullcoat, it will dry blotchy.

some  paints are laquer based others are enamel based they are not compatible.  This from sad experience. When I was in the Air National Guard I once painted an aircraft tug with a mismatch and the paint wrinkled requiring a complete resanding. Always check the label

Al Smeraldo posted:

some  paints are laquer based others are enamel based they are not compatible.  This from sad experience. When I was in the Air National Guard I once painted an aircraft tug with a mismatch and the paint wrinkled requiring a complete resanding. Always check the label

I plan to get some tomorrow.  Interesting that you say that about Testors dull coat.   I have used it in the past on many locomotives and other projects and I have had nothing but great results.  

If it works for you (dullcoat), great. I have had issues with it.

Jdevleerjr posted: 

  Interesting that you say that about Testors dull coat.   I have used it in the past on many locomotives and other projects and I have had nothing but great results.  

 

Me too...

Mark in Oregon 

I am going to say this one more time, use a good paint intended for models and QUIT using Krylon & Rust-O-Leum and such. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, some of you get by with it, but, as has been seen here, you are only asking for trouble. 
JD,
Consider yourself very lucky if the paint hasn't eaten into the plastic, that is if you can even get the paint to come off. 

Lately I've been getting good results with Tamiya paints for plastic. My local Hobbytown carries it but can always be found online.

Be very careful with what you use for a stripper; some of them will strip away whatever you used as a filler (putty). My advice is take a scrap (like the piece you cut out of the tender deck), make some imperfections in it, fill it with whatever you used on the tender (Squadron white, etc.), let it dry, sand it, put both paints on it, AND then try the stripper. Yes, i know this means a few extra days work considering drying times, BUT this way you can be sure you won't do any more damage. Then wash it in warm soapy water and rinse.  Also you should lightly prime the tender BEFORE painting it again. I have had good luck with Tamiya primer.

Too many mergers and changes to formula to trust just by brand anymore.

It needs to be tested, it does soften some plastics, knocks down detail crispness, etc.  But Castrol Purple Degreaser is one that will work it's way under the paint faster than it desolves things, allowing the paint to mostly slide off. I've used it on 1:24 models and was very pleased. 

Some folks use brake fluid and claim no softness to plastic, but it's really a chemical needing proper disposal.

You can't freely spray lacquer on any paint, except maybe an epoxy or primer... maybe. It is a very "hot" paint that penetrates a bottom coat fast and strong, pulling at surfaces hard trying to lay thin and flat during the cure.

You can often get away with misting laquer on enamel, waiting an hour, misting again, etc.. NO WET SPRAYS.

Next on the list would be enamels. Hard shell, thick, tough. But laquer can penetrate most, and deep enough to soften it too. Usually enamel on laquer is no problem, but some enamel reducers/carriers can penetrate some laquers, but the result is usually bleed or cloudy look.

Acrylics are usually very soft..good luck

There sort of in between and specialized too. Like original Rusty is/was fish oil based to help repel moisture. That's why most other enamel paints do so poor and fisheye over top of Rusty. 

I'm curious if the Krylon was in identically designed labels.  I'll admit to relying on exact label design vs actually reading close quite often. I mean if it says black satin enamel and clear laquer I'd likely catch it, but obvious labeling isn't a strong suit of design today IMO.

Big Jim posted:

I am going to say this one more time, use a good paint intended for models and QUIT using Krylon & Rust-O-Leum and such. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, some of you get by with it, but, as has been seen here, you are only asking for trouble. 
JD,
Consider yourself very lucky if the paint hasn't eaten into the plastic, that is if you can even get the paint to come off. 

I tried to do a repaint on a Lionel 623 switcher years ago (mid 80's) and use Krylon black.
The paint went on and looked great for about a minute, the all of a sudden it start to attack the plastic and crinkle on me.
It looked like a crustoleum paint job.
Put the project aside, have an other shell, just waiting to be completed.

Suggestion for painting your tender, try to paint some of the inside of the tender first to see if the paint does attack the plastic. You will be saving a lot of time if you do this.

Jdevleerjr posted:

Huge setback tonight.   I had the whole tender painted a satin black.  I used Krylon spray paint to do it.  I wanted to decal it on Friday evening and so I needed to add a glass coat tonight so it would be all dried and ready for decals.  I used Krylon clear gloss coat.  After about 15 seconds of my spraying it the whole tendered developed bubbles all over it.  I think that the paints interacted with each other!   

I will need to get something now to strip all the paint and then re-paint it.  I might have to run to P&D and get Testors gloss black this time and use Testors dull coat after the decals are set.  

George

GeoPeg posted:

Jdevleerjr posted:

Huge setback tonight.   I had the whole tender painted a satin black.  I used Krylon spray paint to do it.  I wanted to decal it on Friday evening and so I needed to add a glass coat tonight so it would be all dried and ready for decals.  I used Krylon clear gloss coat.  After about 15 seconds of my spraying it the whole tendered developed bubbles all over it.  I think that the paints interacted with each other!   

I will need to get something now to strip all the paint and then re-paint it.  I might have to run to P&D and get Testors gloss black this time and use Testors dull coat after the decals are set.  

Sounds like you may have had the same issue I ran into over the summer. I painted a diesel frame a satin black, pretty sure it was Krylon. I didn't read the instructions on the label, which clearly stated, "If you're going to add a 2nd coat, do it within an hour of the 1st coat or wait at least 2 days. I blasted some Krylon satin clear over that puppy the next day and watched in horror as the bubbles appeared. No fault of the paint IMHO, just the paint can operator!

Check your paint can and see if it mentions this little BIG detail....

George

has the same problem using Rustleom black on a prewar frame, Bras stantions were buffed and masked off. Sprayed the frame black removed he masking tried Rustoleum clear and the black wrinkled. Stripped the frame again and did the same process over again waiting 48 hours and still had he same results. Did it again and waited over a week for the black to cure and the same results. Painted the frame again and brushed the clear on the polished black stantions. Since the frame is metal is was easier do do that plastic. The Rustoleum clear only interacted with their black paint and none of the colr paint that I used?

Maybe the "setback" is a blessing in disguise.  I never really liked the way the seams between the the 2 halves of the tendered looked.  I rushed the sanding/paint job to get it done and planned to using weathering to hide the bad sanding job I did.  I hope the paint stripper does strip away the filler (putty) so I can re-do it much better.  

I will keep you posted on the progress.  I will go get some Castrol Purple Degreaser tomorrow and work on stripping the paint tomorrow night when the kids go to bed.  

Ok after taking some time off of this project I decided that today I would strip the paint.  I went to P&D the other day and picked up some Scale Coat II paint stripper.    The tender is currently soaking in it for the recommended 10 minutes.  I already stripped the one side and the paint came off really easy.   

So far, so good.