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MPC Sound of Steam question

OKHIKEROKHIKEROGR Forum Member
This probably is a stupid question but I am no electronics expert so please bear with me. If I am correct MPC mounted their Sound of Steam boards on a metal plate insulated with a thin foam pad in order to prevent the board from coming into contact with the plate and shorting out. My question is does the board have to be replaced at that point or can the sound system be salvaged by reinsulating the metal plate?

I presume that if a shorted out board has to be replaced that preventive maintenance in the form of a new foam pad can prevent this from happening on other MPC engines that one owns.

Any help will be appreciated.
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CW C W BurfleOGR Forum Member
quote:
My question is does the board have to be replaced at that point or can the sound system be salvaged by reinsulating the metal plate?


In my experience, once the board stops functioning, it's toast. You can remove it from the tender, so the bottom of the board isn't touching anything, and it still will not work.

If someone knows how to repair these boards, I'd love to read about it.

IMHO, the time to take care of the disintegrated foam is before the board is damaged. I like to use a piece of illustration board as an insulator, and use double sided foam tape to attach the board to the frame, and the frame to the board.
S SWANKOOGR Forum Member
I've done what C.W does and used foam tape to repair mine. There was a thread a while back regarding SOS boards and the fact that they can be fixed. Hopefully someone will chime in with that info.

FWIW, the new forum and the keeping of all the 'old' info will be of immense help to everyone on the board. So many times I've remembered discussion on a topic, but it was past the six month cutoff and I had to ask the question again. The forum will become a true repository of 'everything you ever wanted to know about O gauge and then some!'

KC
ForestForestOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
I had a board repaired by a fellow by the name of Jim Bates in March of 2010. Someone here on the furom gave me his contact information. It was trains@pmrcs.com. He said it was a 4th or 5th version of the board and charged me $40.00 to repair it. This included return shipping.

Forest.
Last edited by Forest
OKHIKEROKHIKEROGR Forum Member
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SWANKO:
I've done what C.W does and used foam tape to repair mine. There was a thread a while back regarding SOS boards and the fact that they can be fixed. Hopefully someone will chime in with that info.

IKC[/QUOTE
Before I posted this topic on the forum I searched high and low for that thread but just couldn't find it so I figured it was out of the 6 month time frame. The preventive maintenance tip posted by CW Burfle is good common sense and I think I'll do what he suggests on all of my other MPC engines.
D dmestanOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
quote:
Originally posted by Forest:
I had a board repaired by a fellow by the name of Jim Bates in March of 2010. Someone here on the furom gave me his contact information. It was trains@pmrcs.com. He said it was a 4th or 5th version of the board and charged me $40.00 to repair it. This included return shipping.

Forest.

For a little more than twice that price you can get ERR sound board. Doesn't seem worth it to me to spend $40 to fix sound of static boards, unless of course you really like the sound of them Wink
CW C W BurfleOGR Forum Member
quote:
For a little more than twice that price you can get ERR sound board. Doesn't seem worth it to me to spend $40 to fix sound of static boards, unless of course you really like the sound of them


I purchased one NOS board about ten years ago for my younger son's engine. I think I paid around $20 for it. If it didn't belong to him, I would not have spent the money.
I have had fairly good luck buying SOS tenders out of junk boxes. In my experience, about 1/2 the time the boards are OK.
ZWPOWER13ZWPOWER13OGR Forum Member
Yes, I am here.....
I have become more or less of an expert on these various Sound of Steam Circuit boards Smile

FOREST, it was me who emailed the contact info to members to get their boards replaced.

I know the gentleman who can repair these sound of steam boards.
But first, what is wrong with your tender OKHIKER? What kind of engine? There were several versions of the Electronic Sound of Steam Boards.

What I do with mine, if the foam pad deteriorated, is to clean the entire tender frame. I remove all the old foam padding, and make the surface smooth, I then apply black electrical tape to the under side of the circuit board to isolate it from the tender, I then place double sided foam tape on the tender frame and secure the board on top. A better improvement over Lionel's original.

Try that and see how it works, if it doesn't work, the board can still be repaired, if not, I have several NOS circuit boards that I have kept over the years, I might be able to help you out. Let me know how you make out.
ForestForestOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
quote:
For a little more than twice that price you can get ERR sound board. Doesn't seem worth it to me to spend $40 to fix sound of static boards, unless of course you really like the sound of them

Some people like to keep their equipment original. In my case the upgrade was not an option since the customer wanted it for FREE.

Forest
CW C W BurfleOGR Forum Member
I guess there isn't anybody inclined to share information on how to repair these boards.

After talking with a coworker with a background in electronics repair, I tried replacing some of the capacitors on one bad board. No luck. I also replaced diodes with no success.
I suspect that the transistors get fried, but I have no idea on how to identify them to try obtaining replacements. As I recall, any markings are obliterated.
OKHIKEROKHIKEROGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by ZWPOWER13:
Yes, I am here.....
I have become more or less of an expert on these various Sound of Steam Circuit boards Smile

FOREST, it was me who emailed the contact info to members to get their boards replaced.

I know the gentleman who can repair these sound of steam boards.
But first, what is wrong with your tender OKHIKER? What kind of engine? There were several versions of the Electronic Sound of Steam Boards.

What I do with mine, if the foam pad deteriorated, is to clean the entire tender frame. I remove all the old foam padding, and make the surface smooth, I then apply black electrical tape to the under side of the circuit board to isolate it from the tender, I then place double sided foam tape on the tender frame and secure the board on top. A better improvement over Lionel's original.

Try that and see how it works, if it doesn't work, the board can still be repaired, if not, I have several NOS circuit boards that I have kept over the years, I might be able to help you out. Let me know how you make out.


ZW,
The engine in question is the 3100 Great Northern, my favorite MPC steam locomotive.

I also have another question in regards to preventive maintenance. In regards to MPC's FM Trainmasters can the same thing happen to the electronic diesel "horn" and if so is the fix the same.
CW C W BurfleOGR Forum Member
quote:
What engine is your board in?


First, I apologize for my poor choice of words.

I think the engine that originally needed the board was an 8142. Perhaps not. Regardless, I purchased an NOS board from a parts dealer to fix that one. IMHO, the board cost more than the engine was worth.

My interest in being able to repair the boards is for "next time". I doubt that I held onto any the bad boards that I had.
As I wrote earlier, I tried replacing capacitors and diodes, but identifing the transistor(s) is beyond me. Once identified, assuming they are available, replacing them is not an issue.
ZWPOWER13ZWPOWER13OGR Forum Member
That Great Northern is one of my favorites too out of all the FARR series.
Try to perform the repair I posted before, If that doesnt work, and you want to keep the engine original, you can have the board repaired.

I believe the horn circuit board uses some of the same components as the SOS. It could probably be repaired as well.
OKHIKEROKHIKEROGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by ZWPOWER13:
That Great Northern is one of my favorites too out of all the FARR series.
Try to perform the repair I posted before, If that doesnt work, and you want to keep the engine original, you can have the board repaired.

I believe the horn circuit board uses some of the same components as the SOS. It could probably be repaired as well.

Thanks ZW and CW too.
G GGGOGR Forum Member
I think the early FM used foam also. Later diesels used a plastic bracket for horn board.

CW, I will look at my boards to see if the numbers are readable. There were several variations. I have a horn board that volume dropped off that I was going to look into too. Just never got around to mapping the older sound boards.

I would think the capacitors and some of the amplifiers would be the issue. Diodes and resistors are probably ok, unless a direct short damaged them. Easy to do continuity checks on those components with a VOM. G
Len2Len2OGR Forum Member
There 9 or 10 different S.O.S. boards over the years, most of which are no longer available.

But, believe it or not, the 8215-T15 (now 6908215T15) S.O.S. board w/whistle is still available from Lionel. Cost is $45.00 + S&H. From the picture, it looks like all the components are marked. This board was used in the tender of the 6-8215 2-8-4 "Berkshire" produced around 1982 or so. It's one of the later boards since there are IC chips on it. It used a tether with a 3-pin plug on it between the loco and tender, similar to the 8306-T20 S.O.S. board.
CS Chuck SartorOGR Forum Member
The later SOS and whistle board, 8215, doesn't work as well as the 8002 board.
The 8215 measures the voltage between the motor brushes to trigger the chuff. It works better in a Berkshire with the horizontal motor than a Hudson with the spur gear motor because of the amperage draw. The earlier 8002 board uses a trigger on the tender axle. More reliable. I guess Lionel developed the later board because it has no moving parts to adjust, and probably less expensive to manufacture.
Of the electronic horn boards, the first version only used in MPC GP-20's and a U-boat around '73 and '74, were the best sounding.
G GGGOGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Sartor:
Of the electronic horn boards, the first version only used in MPC GP-20's and a U-boat around '73 and '74, were the best sounding.


Interesting, since the horn board stock number stayed pretty consistent over the years, though you can see variations on the boards. G
Len2Len2OGR Forum Member
Since the early SOS boards were basically just noise generators, by substituting a couple of bridge rectifiers for the batteries, this circuit http://www.electronicsinfoline..._audio_testing.shtml could probably be used as a substitute. The 'make/break' switch would be wired into the Vcc+ lead or between C8 & VR1.

If I get some time next week, I may dig the parts our of the "junk" box and bread board it to see what it sounds like.
CW C W BurfleOGR Forum Member
quote:
CW, I will look at my boards to see if the numbers are readable.


I appreciate the effort!
I took a look at a working SOS board this morning. The board has something like four transistors (I think) that do not appear to have any markings.
Who knows! maybe they aren't transistors at all, maybe they are somethng else.
Once again, this board is in a tender from a small, early 1970's loco, like an 8142.
G GGGOGR Forum Member
quote:
Originally posted by C W Burfle:
quote:
CW, I will look at my boards to see if the numbers are readable.


I appreciate the effort!
I took a look at a working SOS board this morning. The board has something like four transistors (I think) that do not appear to have any markings.
Who knows! maybe they aren't transistors at all, maybe they are somethng else.
Once again, this board is in a tender from a small, early 1970's loco, like an 8142.


Sorry to take so long. The board I have is a early version. I am sure obsolete components on the board.

The transistors are FCS 9014D (2 on the board) this crosses to the 2N3904

FCD 0141 (only has 2 of the 3 legs attached, could not cross it.

The others are FCS 9012 and 9013. These cross to 2N4403 and 2N4401.

I do think the later versions are more complex. Will have to dig to see if I have one of those. G
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