MTH WI-FI Module issues

Time out errors are due to packet loss..defect in root program...or poor signal 

Possible solutions

Attempt DCS upgrade again

Relocate WIFI device

Replace MTH WIFI device

Or, you are not holding your mouth correctly.

When upgrading tiu, did you upgrade DCS remote? And if not, does DCS remote still operate correctly?  I have yet to learn if DCS remote has to be upgraded when TIU is upgraded.

1drummer posted:

 I have yet to learn if DCS remote has to be upgraded when TIU is upgraded. 

Yes, it should be. The TIU and remote should be upgraded to the same versions at the same time. They should always match. You could get unpredictable results otherwise.

While the remote should be at 5.0, if you're not using it and using the app in its place, the TIU could care less.  Of course having the remote upgraded and available could help in trouble shooting. 

But as its stands if just using the app, then the TIU is the only piece needed to be 5.0. Having the non used remote at anything else won't matter and is not your issue. 

Both TIU and remote are upgraded. I am using the MTH HOME wifi to eliminate any home network issues or range problems . Ill try reinstalling the TIU software again. 

What about other signals interfering? I know that between my home wi-fi, alarm wi-fi, and cells phones that my Lionel wi-fi has an occasional hiccup. Maybe cutting down on those signals or just moving the wi-fi unit to a different spot will solve it.

Porsche1662 posted:

HI Guys, after waiting for this devise since the beginning of the year it finally came in. All hooked up and works sometimes. I keep getting a "Request Timed Out" error.  It sometime links up all the engines but only lasts a few minutes or so. Then they all go inactive again. I tried the Home Network and the MTH network and both do the exact same thing. Its very frustrating and once the locos go inactive you have to link them all up again. Anyone else having the similar experience ?

I tried my Iphone and my Ipad. both less than a year old and upgraded to latest software including  TIU to version 5.0

 

 

 

I am having the exact same issue. I have a total of nine engines on my layout. I found that if I reduced the number of engines down to five or so, I could get it to "interrogate" and list as active. However, if I try to then place another engine on the tract and attempt to "Add Engine," the current ones listed as "Active" all go "Inactive" and any repeated attempt to get them listed as active results in the same error message that you are getting. I have tested this with the WIU set up for Home WiFi, MTH Wifi, and LAN WiFi and the result is always the same on both my iPhone6s and my old iPhone5. In the midst of all of this, my handheld remote is still able to communicate with ALL engines that are on the track. So my guess is that there is a software glitch.

In the brief time that I was able to get the to work with my limited stable of engines, it was awesome! Here's hoping that MTH resolves this quickly!

Ok reinstalling software did not help. Next Ill try to remove all but 5 engines  and see what happens.......

One further thing, I tested this with an older TIU and a revision L TIU  and the results were the same

You have more than 5 engines, What is the maximum you canrun on the upgrade for $5 bucks?

I am operating with the five dollar app. MTH claims that it will store 99 locomotives. But I do not find anything where there is a limitation as to how many locomotives you can operate at one time.

Have you attempted to get LuCI?

The free app only allows three locomotives.

1drummer posted:

Have you attempted to get LuCI?

Yes, while trying to set up with Home Wifi. Not that I looked all that closely, but I did not come across anything that really jumped out at me concerning this matter.

Just wondering...

I hope to find a work around to get the upgrade for my kindle..if I only wanted to run 3 engines, I would have stayed on BLOCK power.

I am going to attempt to run my apple phone app, which I got the upgrade, but cannot tell if it is on the app.

1.  What cable are you using between the WI FI Box and the TIU?  Do you have the USB Port on your TIU?  If you are not using the USB cable supplied because you don't have a USB port make sure you get the correct RS232 to USB Cable.  Not all work or work well.  The preferred brand cable I use is made by:  CP Technoogies USB 2.0 Serial Adapter (CP-US-03).  Cut and paste this description at AMAZON and you will find them there.

2.  Try completely powering down your I-PAD or I-Phone and then powering them back up.

3.  After powering back up your device then delete the App and go back to the App Store and reload it.  Don't worry if you purchased the $5.00 upgrade by deleting the App and reloading it won't loose the upgrade.

4.  When powering up the TIU and Wi Fi Box using the MTH Mode go close to the box to make sure you have a strong Wi Fi Signal.

5.  Go into your SETTINGS and make sure you are connected to the MTH Wi Fi Box.

6.  Open the App and select RUN MY TRAINS.  You should get a "reading engine" on the screen.  Go to top bar and select add engines.  Select add MTH Engine. Then add another engine until they are all added.  

7.  After powering down and the engines are loaded in your device then next time you open the APP.  Press the Circular arrow to Refresh the engines and it will go out and check to find what engines are on the track for that session. 

MTHTRAINS1 posted:

1.  What cable are you using between the WI FI Box and the TIU?  Do you have the USB Port on your TIU?  If you are not using the USB cable supplied because you don't have a USB port make sure you get the correct RS232 to USB Cable.  Not all work or work well.  The preferred brand cable I use is made by:  CP Technoogies USB 2.0 Serial Adapter (CP-US-03).  Cut and paste this description at AMAZON and you will find them there.

 

Again, I tested with BOTH an older TIU with the USB > Serial adapter and a REV L TIU with a USB A/B cable and the results were identical.

I have had a similar issue... I have more than 5 engines in the App running on iPhone 6 and I cannot get engines to move from the Inactive list to the Active list... I will try the procedures above to see if the problem is resolved...

Another question:  Do I have to use the DCS Remote and set the TIUs to Normal mode to use the App??  I have two TIUs and run in Supermode with the remotes.  I think that keeping supermode for the remotes would be OK...

Also, I have use LuCI to look into the status of the WIFI units [I have two]...  Their internal clock reports back [on the status page] that it's some date in July, 2015...  So the internal clock in the WIUs is not synchronized with the PC or Router time... Anyone think thiscould be a problem... I have connected both WIUs to my home network...

If I still have problems I will reset the WIUs and connect them using the MTH network...

Jim,

Another question:  Do I have to use the DCS Remote and set the TIUs to Normal mode to use the App??  I have two TIUs and run in Super TIU mode with the remotes.  I think that keeping supermode for the remotes would be OK...

Super TIU mode is actually a misnomer. Surer TIU mode sets up remotes, not TIUs, to be able to access a DCS engine on any TIU.

So, having remotes in Super TIU mode or Normal TIU mode matters not at all.

This and a whole lot more is all in“The DCS Companion 3rd Edition", available for purchase  from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book.

Barry, thanks, that's what I thought but I wanted to ask...

Just curious what your signal strength is where each engine is located.  Are you using just one channel on the TIU?

Thanks,

Dave

David Minarik posted:

Just curious what your signal strength is where each engine is located.  Are you using just one channel on the TIU?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

Signal strength is 10 throughout my layout. I have two separate runs so I am use both channels of my TIU.

MTHTRAINS1 posted:

1.  What cable are you using between the WI FI Box and the TIU?  Do you have the USB Port on your TIU?  If you are not using the USB cable supplied because you don't have a USB port make sure you get the correct RS232 to USB Cable.  Not all work or work well.  The preferred brand cable I use is made by:  CP Technoogies USB 2.0 Serial Adapter (CP-US-03).  Cut and paste this description at AMAZON and you will find them there.

2.  Try completely powering down your I-PAD or I-Phone and then powering them back up.

3.  After powering back up your device then delete the App and go back to the App Store and reload it.  Don't worry if you purchased the $5.00 upgrade by deleting the App and reloading it won't loose the upgrade.

4.  When powering up the TIU and Wi Fi Box using the MTH Mode go close to the box to make sure you have a strong Wi Fi Signal.

5.  Go into your SETTINGS and make sure you are connected to the MTH Wi Fi Box.

6.  Open the App and select RUN MY TRAINS.  You should get a "reading engine" on the screen.  Go to top bar and select add engines.  Select add MTH Engine. Then add another engine until they are all added.  

7.  After powering down and the engines are loaded in your device then next time you open the APP.  Press the Circular arrow to Refresh the engines and it will go out and check to find what engines are on the track for that session. 

I spent the last two hours trying to get things to work. I did all of the above using an iPhone 6s, iPhone 5, and an iPad2. I placed all 9 of my engines on my layout 5 steamers, 4 Streetcars). Trying to get any of my devices to just "Read" took a lot of repeated attempts. I kept getting a "Request Failed" error message. Finally it did "Read," but I still got "Request Failed." I started removing engines one by one and retrying to where I had only 6 engines (5 steamers, 1 PCC Streetcar) on my layout. Only then did I get an "Interrogating Engines" message and I successfully added these 6 engines to the "Active List." Also, I went through a period of "Request Failed" on ALL THREE of my devices before finally I got the "Interrogating Engines" message. I then placed an additional engine on the layout and tried to "Add an Engine." Again I got the "Request Failed" message and all previously "Active" engines were listed as "Inactive." I tried to refresh several times but the status of my engines remained "Inactive." I removed the additional engine that I had just placed on the layout and again tried to Refresh, but to no avail on all three of my devices. So I began a lengthy process of again repeatedly trying to "Refresh" getting repeated "Request Failed" messages, before finally getting the 6 engines to be found and listed as active. That is where things are at with me for the moment.

With my MTH handheld remote, I have no problem running all 9 of my engines. Even during this lengthy process, I was able to access those engines that were on the track.

If someone else has any insight, it would be most appreciated.

To MTHTRAINS1  I followed the steps you outlined above to delete and re-download the App;  I did this for the iPhone...  now when I start the App I do not automatically get the Reading Engines screen...  I have to start it by touching the circular arrows... 

I have the App installed in my android tablet as well and on the tablet the it does start the reading engines screen on startup... 

Oh, I have Reset the devices and are using them in MTH mode with one as Master and the second as slave per the User's manual...

Most of the time when I read engines I only get 5 and it stops...  By judiciously turning off power to the tracks and resetting the app [on the iPhone] I got a successful read of 8 engines on another part of the layout...  And I was able to run the engines using the App... and I was able to switch between the engines...  But when I brought up the engine list there were no engines in the inactive list...

Any suggestions??  I will run a DCS signal level test to see what I get as I have not done that recently...  Anyone think it will help to reinstall DCS Rev 5.0??

Delta14sierra, I have similar problems to you with the number of engines...  On one section of the layout [controlled by TIU2] I have 4 DCS engines, on the other section [controlled by TIU1] I have 12... 

Following happens: 

Test 1:  all TIUs and WIUs active - WIUs in MTH mode...  Start up App...  Start the engine read and add mth engine...  the 4 engines on TIU2 and 1 engine on TIU 1 are found but none of the others...  Found engines can be started up and run but sometimes when I go back to the engine list only the ones I have run are in the active list and none are in the Inactive list...

Test 2: Turned off the track power to TIU 2; reset the App and repeated test...  Start up the App, perform engine read and add mth engine... 8 of the 12 engines in the district controlled by TIU1 are found and are able to be run...  But when I looked at the inactive list there were no entries...

In the few cases where there are entries in the inactive list I have been unable to move an engine to the active list and make it active...

I will continue to investigate;  something is not right it seems... 

Ok guys after about 2 hours of taking engines on and off. 5 is the limit. Once I tried to put #6 on it goes haywire. I think MTH needs to upload a new upgrade.   You cant even have 6 engines on the layout. Luckily I have most of mine on a seperate block but once I power up to grab another loco it sees the other 10 and shuts down. Had to manually pick up and move to the active track. Great when it works but if you like to have more than 5 on your layout you'll have to wait for an upgrade. Charging my triples AAA to put back in the remote control.

Jim, first of all, it is assuring to know tha tI am not alone in experiencing this issue.

Secondly, just as a matter of record, what version TIUs are you using?

Porsche1662, are you running the MTH WIFI, or your Home Network Wifi?

My app on Apple saw all of my engines.  #1 had issues. It kept going inactive, and once when I did get it working, it went immediately to 120MPH...and I couldn't stop it. Emergency stop failed.

It did stop when it hit a parked train. Fortunately the length of run was only about 5 feet, so it never gained full momentum.  At least no damages.

Resetting #1 engine with DCS remote seems to have resolved this issue.

I was able to operate the engine, and it stayed active.

I am attempting to determine the differences and pros and cons of the NETWORK SELECTION.  Any insight would be appreciated.

Yes misery loves company :-)   Version L less than 2 years old.  Im worried that MTH just getting into the app world wont know how to fix this issue and it may be a while. Kinda frustrated since my first 4 day weekend in a while and I spent most of the last two days resetting routers passwords etc. trying to fix an issue thats not fixable. I hope this post prevents others from doing what I did and know that if they have this unit keep it under 5 for now.

1drummer posted:

Porsche1662, are you running the MTH WIFI, or your Home Network Wifi?

 

My app on Apple saw all of my engines.  #1 had issues. It kept going inactive, and once when I did get it working, it went immediately to 120MPH...and I couldn't stop it. Emergency stop failed.

It did stop when it hit a parked train. Fortunately the length of run was only about 5 feet, so it never gained full momentum.  At least no damages.

Resetting #1 engine with DCS remote seems to have resolved this issue.

I was able to operate the engine, and it stayed active.

I am attempting to determine the differences and pros and cons of the NETWORK SELECTION.  Any insight would be appreciated.

 

 

Im thinking your lost connection without knowing it and even though you were making changes on your devise it was already disconnected . I set all my engine to max mph 50 just in case.

1drummer posted:

I am attempting to determine the differences and pros and cons of the NETWORK SELECTION.  Any insight would be appreciated.

Some thoughts...

MTH WiFi... Pro: If you allow others to operate trains on your layout using one of the apps, users will not have access to your home network. Con: if you have a home wifi, you will have to go into your settings choose the MTH WIFI each time you want to run trains and you will not have access to the Internet on your device while running trains. When you are done running trains, you then have to choose your home wifi.

Home network (wireless)... Pro: You have access to the Internet and your home network while running trains and you do not have select the network just to run trains. Con: If you allow others to run trains from their personal device, they will need password access to your wifi router connection.

Home network (wired)... Pro: Do not have to worry about wifi signal strength if trains are located a distance away from your wifi router. Con: You have to have Ethernet connection to your WIU. I believe you will still have to go into settings and select MTH WIFI each time you want to run trains.

DELTA14SIERRA,  Both TIUs are Rev L and are running DCS5.0... 

I will continue my testing tomorrow...  It's late now and I don't think it will be productive to do anything at this hour...

There does seem to be some issue with the number of engines;  but I have been able to get up to8 added but it's not reliable at all.. 

I had the WIUs connecting to my home network but I went back to using the MTH network thinking that maybe I had a connection problem... But I don't think that is the case...  I concur with your points above concerning using the MTH mode -- I found it a pain to keep connecting between the MTH network and my home network with the iPhone...  It's much smoother operation [from that perspective] using the home network.

When I have some more results I'll post them...

Delta14Sierra posted:

David Minarik posted:

Just curious what your signal strength is where each engine is located.  Are you using just one channel on the TIU?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

Signal strength is 10 throughout my layout. I have two separate runs so I am use both channels of my TIU.

Again, just curious, what happens if you keep the engines in the FIXED 1 zone and turn off FIXED 2?  

Thanks,

Dave

I wonder, if I lost connection, wouldn't it affect the other trains that were idling? Which is what #1 started out doing, when I selected, "Start Up".

GHOST in the MACHINE?

David Minarik posted:

Delta14Sierra posted:

David Minarik posted:

Just curious what your signal strength is where each engine is located.  Are you using just one channel on the TIU?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

Signal strength is 10 throughout my layout. I have two separate runs so I am use both channels of my TIU.

Again, just curious, what happens if you keep the engines in the FIXED 1 zone and turn off FIXED 2?  

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

 

Interesting... I relocated all 9 engines over to FIXED 1 and only powered up that side of my Z-4000. ALL 9 engines were "Read" immediately, placed on the "Active" list, and I was able to fire each one up one by one.

Hmmm... So what does that now tell us?

Further testing... I took just 1 of 9 engines off of FIXED 1 track, placed it on FIXED 2 track, powered up both tracks, refreshed the app and ALL engines went inactive.

I powered down FIXED 2 with the single engine, refreshed the app and all 8 engines on FIXED 1 were immediately listed as active, the engine on FIXED 2 was listed as inactive.

Delta14Sierra posted:

David Minarik posted:

Delta14Sierra posted:

David Minarik posted:

Just curious what your signal strength is where each engine is located.  Are you using just one channel on the TIU?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

Signal strength is 10 throughout my layout. I have two separate runs so I am use both channels of my TIU.

Again, just curious, what happens if you keep the engines in the FIXED 1 zone and turn off FIXED 2?  

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

 

Interesting... I relocated all 9 engines over to FIXED 1 and only powered up that side of my Z-4000. ALL 9 engines were "Read" immediately, placed on the "Active" list, and I was able to fire each one up one by one.

Hmmm... So what does that now tell us?

I have two layouts (3 TIUs).  

One small one at the shop with 1 TIU.  The app will not find any engines (time out error) with the Fixed 2 channel powered up.  Even with no engines on that channel.

My home layout, which is much larger and more complex, has two TIUs.  The app will find engines on 3 TIU channels.  When the fourth channel (fixed 2) is powered up, I get the time out error.  No engines can be found and everything is moved to the inactive list.

All signals are strong.  All TIUs are Rev L.

I have not tried different TIUs or different TIU channels.  That would be the next step.

I initially thought that it might be a signal issue with my layout but now suspect something else..........  A little more testing is needed.  Keep us posted as to what you find.

Dave

I don't think any more testing required,  You have at least 3 independent test here.   There must be a bug that needs to be corrected.   G

From my experience with the WIU. I have 25 ps2 and ps3 engines loaded onto my I-pad and Android phone. I also have the standard version loaded onto my I-pad and Android phone. I had to load each engine one at a time onto both phone and I-pad. I use a Rev .I TIU upgraded to Ver.5.0. I also use 2 Z-4000 transformers connected to TIU (all channels are set to fixed). to operate my trains. Layout size is 37' x 20'.Whenever I shut down my trains, all of my engines will go into the inactive list on my I-pad and phone. When I start both transformers, then power up WIU, all of my engines will go to the active list. Make sure when you're setting up WIU that you don't have any signal interference that will degrade signal going to WIU. I find from reading the posts on this forum, that it's normally user error that causes the WIU to act incorrectly. This device does work as advertised. I had the WIU working on my home router system and the MTH home system. Both worked as advertised. If you are in the Winston-Salem NC area on January 23rd. I will be demoing the system for the Train Loft using Apple and Android systems.........rogerw.

RogerW, are you implying that the WIU should power up after the track power is applied...  In my setup I power up the TIUs and the WIUs prior to applying power to the TIU channels...  I can set up to power up the WIUs after track power is applied and see what happens...

I did some more testing this morning and I found that I could add new engines if only Fixed 1 TIU1was powered or if Fixed2 TIU1 was powered...  When both channels were powered I would lose all active engines and get a message saying no new engines to add...  I concur with GGG that this issue looks like a software glitch to me...  I can work around for a while by only adding engines from tracks powered by Fixed 1or fixed 2... I made notes from my tests and results; I will post them later today...