My dream/nightmare layout... July Update 7/31/19 Big Boy month!

Elliot, I'm about an hour west of you, would love to see your amazing 'dream/nightmare' layout sometime. I somehow missed your Mall Of America days. It's been fun following the progress.

I was hoping to hear from you. I noticed the other day that you know Matt from Hub. Patrick is coming over tomorrow (later today), and Matt will be here Wednesday. I checked with the scheduling department (wife) and  the weekend is wide open. Drop me an email and we can set something up.

Elliot - help is certainly welcome.  Sometimes I think I live in the most remote part of the contiguous United States!

Hi Elliot,  I've been admiring you and this thread for some time now ... I know how (at times) it feels too be "overwhelmed", "I was the same way". The youngest of 7 kids, even my own brothers came in "my room" and exclaimed: "Tom you need help" ! ... "your outta line with all this man" !! ... I'd try an answer, but was shut right down as they plugged their ears (leaving) saying it again and again.

"LOL" "gese I miss that NOW").

Anyway: That motivated me too no end, so 8 months later, ("53  4 by 8 sheets of Plywood later") I finished it all myself, NO Club, help, "no-anything". My Wife is even is 100% disinterested in any of it, as are my kids, BUT you ("in the end") DO IT For YOU.

Never "regret", BUT always a:  "I should have done this / or that" ... (very normal) occurs. Guys like you ("and maybe me") feel a "call", a call to push things BEYOND practicality and "normality". "It gets inside you".

ME ? "I understand". Some are scenery, some are runners (you mentioned "track and lots of it") BUT: "we ALL Just love our Trains" !

I join the call in saying I'm very PROUD of your accomplishment, and BTW they call me "fatty" too ! *** That's me: eating the Uncle Buck 54 oz. Steak (I did) or blowing up EVERYTHING and LOVING every moment of it !  Some of my best memories with my Pop were Him asking: "My God Son, is it safe" ? (usually due too a putrid odor "(or something)" ... put that question out when he came over ...

No rules, never regret, and never understanding WHY I didn't build it BIGGER.

*The TRUTH is their will never be "big enough" for guys like us !  < EVER >

You BUILD Man! .. *and were ALL with / behind ya 100% !! You'll SPANK us all !

Tom

Tom, thank you for those kind and inspirational words. They couldn't have come at a better time.

Things had been going kind of badly to start the day. Some bad financial news is most likely going to eat into my train budget to the tune of about 2 Vision Line Big Boys per year.

Then Patrick and I were working along on the layout, and my wife called down and said that the central vacuum wasn't working. Fortunately Patrick was able to continue wiring without me. I wrestled with that thing for well over a half hour, but finally won.

When I got back downstairs, Patrick alerted me to the post, and my disposition improved. After that things got back on track, and we finished the wiring. Then it was time to test our handywork. Considering how many feeders were involved, forgetting to hook up a couple wasn't too bad, except for the fact that the train stopped in the dead spots. Easily corrected.

I've said in the past that wiring wasn't very interesting photographically. I want to take that back.

Where once there was a load of dangling spaghetti, now everything is tied up out of the way.

We still have to deal with the detection wires, but it is going to be a while before they are needed.


This is the end result of all that work. Trains from the hidden yard, neatly parked on the main level.


All of the track on the main level is now powered.


Matt will be here tomorrow, and the goal will be to get 15 tortoises installed, opening access to Hastings, Prescott and Red Wing, and allowing westbound travel around the existing section of the layout.

Magnificent progress!!!  And nothing short of jaw-dropping every time I check in and read the updates to this thread.  Way to go, Elliot!!! 

David

Thanks David. It is all coming together so quickly now. It's starting to feel like a real railroad. The real watershed moment was the decision to go with Tortoise switch machines.

The next phase is track laying on the third peninsula which will connect to the new helix. From there it is on to the other hidden yard, which will bring a whole new pattern of operation into play.

Where did February go? Patrick was over 4 times, and Matt once. Mill City (Jon) stopped by for a visit too.

For the second straight month, I poured in over 80 hours myself. Matt is the Tortoise master. Patrick has become a wiring wizard and I have been throwing down track like it's going out of style.

I started the month by finishing Pig's Eye yard, which Patrick then wired.






I mounted some Hump Yard switch throws, they still need to be connected though.


I built some new control panels, which still need to be installed.


This is the brand new Western Avenue yard.


The existing part of the layout is now connected to the new helix we built last year.

In order to get the proper track spacing, I had to do some serious chopping on these 072 switches.

Elliot,

Looks like you're making some good progress.  The hump yard switch throws look pretty neat.  I'm looking forward to seeing what March brings for you!

Mike

Thanks Mike. I had more pictures that I wanted to include, but the forum up loader was being stubborn.

The "to do" list is never ending. Look for those Hump Yards and the control panels to get finished. I also want to get the new hidden yard done so I can remove the cutoff switches once and for all.

Elliot, thank you for the great train day. It was a pleasure to finally meet both you and your wife, tour your beautiful home, and visit the 'dream-nightmare' layout. I see from these latest photo posts that you have made great headway since Saturday last. How exciting it must be to finally connect that second helix. Now, onward to the next side!

Jon

Thank you Jon. I really enjoyed your visit last Saturday. Let me know when you have some free time. I'm sure I can fill it.

Here's a shot of what we did today. The tracks going over the bridge are about 30' from connecting to the old helix (behind the camera). I think I'm going to need a temporary platform to cover Red Wing so I can get up there to finish that track.

Elliot - Lot of progress and really looking good.  I can really relate to chopping 072 switches to achieve yard track spacing.  We did that with Atlas 072 switches in two yards.  The only problem that we have had is when you stack them in a ladder that way, many of my engines stall at slower speeds going through them.  We had to "power route' the switches to get around this.  Adding pickup rollers to the engines is another option.

Art

Wow, over the bridge too, a lot of progress! Must feel good to connect some long time loose ends. Give me a call and let's set something up.

Jon

Thanks for the heads up Art. At first I was scratching my head about the power routing, but I think I see the potential problem now. It happens when the roller crosses the closure rail and has to make the jump from one center rail segment to the next. So what you have done is power a segment of the unused closure rail. That powered segment changes sides when you throw the switch.

So any SPDT set of contacts will work. Easy with Tortoises, trickier with a manual throw, but still doable.

These updates never cease to amaze me. That is going to be one fantastic layout.

big boy.... your really moving along I can really see the pigs eye yard. it sure doesn't look like yours in reality now much less than when i was a child in the late 50's but thanks to you it lives on. I see from other threads you have rolling stock on upper parts of layout are you able to run in and out of pigs eye yet?

out of curiosity how much snow this year? thanks to windows all the swing bridge pics I had from area where swifts meat packing was went way of do do bird.

the area you said had 30 feet to go to be connected is that near where steps are from main living area upstairs? just trying to get a visual of where it really is. I think you need a 4th helper to secure all those hanging wires LOL been there myself.

I always look forward to your updates always incredible to read when your finished with scenery what ever will you do to pass the time away ha ha ha gee run trains and work less on layout!

have a great train day.

$oo

remember, working on a nightmare train layout, is still better than a good day at work. wonderful progress on this monster undertaking, Well Done !

 The scope of this layout looks amazing!

PS. If I read your post right and you have PS2 3 volt boards for sale, please let me know! I'm going to need a bunch of them.

Every time I look at you pictures I am more and more  . . . Wow!

Big Boy 4005: you need to call the federal government and warn them that you have single-handedly solved the national unemployment problem and they don't need all those subsidies! When you get this monster done and start hiring the army of folks you'll need to keep it clean and in good repair, there will be plenty of jobs for everyone!

Lee, you are right! I should start negotiable with Elliot about have full time job with all benefits! 

Elliot, if you were moving any slower you'd be moving backwards;-). I was thinking, maybe I can come over tuesday too, you up for a double header?

I have this recurring nightmare: I win the lottery, and I use my new-found wealth to build my "dream" layout.  It goes on and one forever - it never ends.  And I spend all my time with this big, hard, Brightboy eraser, cleaning the track by hand at foot at a time, a foot at a time, a foot at a time . . . .

After looking at the pictures one could guess why she wanted out while others can realize had she not bailed you'd never gotten this far.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks for all the great comments guys! I actually took the entire day off yesterday, which hasn't happened too often lately.

Joe - I only have a few MTH engines to convert, and I'm not even sure what they have inside them. Matt has first dibs, but if he doesn't want them, I'll let you know.

Lee - In spite of the massive scope of the layout, maintenance is not actually proportional to square footage. It is more closely related running time. Yes, track will  need cleaning and trains will need fixing, but I really don't expect to be overwhelmed by it.

At the mall, trains ran almost 80 hours per week. The layout was nearly the same size, and for the most part, one person was able to keep up.

In the end, it really boils down to moving parts and dusting. By running an almost all can motored diesel fleet and using Ross manual switches with some Tortoise machines, the moving parts are minimized. Even the dust may not be that bad. Yes, there are the ceiling tiles which give off dust, but that only rains down on the upper deck and a small part of the main level. The hidden yards and much of the main level are protected.

$oo - The trains you are seeing on the upper level were just put there to get them out of the way. I hope to have power up there by June. The 30' of track I was referring to is the last half turn on the old helix and that shelf above Red Wing. Matt and I may polish that off Tuesday.

The winter hare has been miserable. The snow is almost up to the mailbox, and some of the piles may not be gone until June unless this cold breaks. Just one more reason to have a train room !

March has been a difficult month when it comes to major construction progress. The weather was horrible, and that figured into Patrick only coming over once. Matt was here 3 times, and Jon got in his first work session.

Two of Matt's visits were spent laying track on this shelf section of the upper deck, connecting the duckunder bridge to the old helix.


This 30' section tied the two helixes together. Now the mainline just needs to go around 2 peninsulas to be complete.


The crossing will provide access to the turntable and roundhouse.


Patrick's visit was spent completing the benchwork for the new hidden yard.


The yard will consist of 8 tracks. The first track is a lead, which runs past the other seven, around this end loop, and connects to the 7 track double ended yard.


The tracks on the left side of this picture are the switches that will make up the ladder on this end.


Jon and I started laying track at the other end last week.


Matt helped finish the first ladder.


When I didn't have help, I worked on a number of smaller projects, including some LED lighting for passenger cars. This is my adaptation of forum member RailRide's circuit.


These will really cut down the power consumption of these old Williams Superliners.


In the end, I put in over 70 hours in March, about a third of which was spent working with my crew.

March sucked! Lets hope for a more cooperative April. Perhaps I can get there next Tuesday or so. Give a call when you can and we'll figure it out. All is looking good.

Looking at the layout I have to hand it to you, for the persistence in dreaming this up and then moving forward through everything you have over such a period of time and actually getting to where it is shaping up. For roughly the same time you have been building your layout, I have been trying to finish off my basement, which is pretty small, so I can put together a relative modest layout (roughly 10x14), and besides the fact that I am just now getting ready to sheetrock the walls, and I can't seem even to begin to design and plan the layout, you are way ahead of me. When you finish that, it will be on the scale of water tunnel #3 in NYC (that when finished will have taken close to 50 years), but in a lot quicker time

Looking at the layout I have to hand it to you, for the persistence in dreaming this up and then moving forward through everything you have over such a period of time and actually getting to where it is shaping up. For roughly the same time you have been building your layout, I have been trying to finish off my basement, which is pretty small, so I can put together a relative modest layout (roughly 10x14), and besides the fact that I am just now getting ready to sheetrock the walls, and I can't seem even to begin to design and plan the layout, you are way ahead of me. When you finish that, it will be on the scale of water tunnel #3 in NYC (that when finished will have taken close to 50 years), but in a lot quicker time

Thank you. The secret with any project this large, is to break it into small pieces and just keep chipping away at it.

I used to be very good at the track planning aspect of the hobby. It's a good thing that I committed most of it to paper 15 years ago, because I don't think I have the patience or the focus to do it these days.

Designing this layout has been a little different from what most people here do. I've taken my inspiration from the real local railroads. For me, it's more about what to include and what to leave out.

If you are having trouble designing your layout, maybe the place to start is with a list of things you want to include. Don't forget you can always ask for help here on the forum. Lots of people do.

Jon, next Tuesday sounds good. I'll give you a call.

Hello Elliot

    I keep checking back on your progress and am amazed. Just thought I would say Hi again and thank you for sharing this with all of us.

Best

Ray Marion

Man, I wish I lived closer! What a layout. I could hang out there for years!

(Maybe help some too)

When it's all done, up and running you'll get to look back and......

I think the scope of the layout matches the owner's name and the motive power he runs; Big Boy!

Excellent!

Peter

Elliot,

WOW!!

I really do enjoy following your journey and you are an inspiration to us health challenged old timers. Not only are you blessed to be gaining back your health but to find friends like Patrick and Matt and now Jon is really a wonderful story!

I am in the planning stage right now and like you I run 100% TMCC/Legacy but on a much smaller scale. I have about 12'x25' to work with and am planning multiple levels. That's where my question comes in...I notice from your 12/2013 video and also from some photos along the way that you are putting what looks like chicken wire or some type of metal foil between levels.

Is this for the TMCC signal ground plane? If so are you connecting it to anything or even to each other around the layout?

I look forward to your answers and to following the progress you make moving forward. I only hope when I start construction on what is to be my dream I am lucky enough to find a "Patrick" or two in my neck of the woods that can pitch in.

Sir, I have been following this Topic since day one.  I feel this

is not a Toy Train Layout, it is a RailRoad.  Beautiful, just excellent

work from all involved.

Please keep us informed on the progress with those awesome

pictures.  To say I envy your progress is a total understatement.

Many thanks,

Billy C 

do you have a means to view what is going in the hidden yards?

Thanks guys!!! Sorry it took so long to get back to respond.

Ray - Watch for the new update at the end of the month. There may not be as many photos this time, because a lot of the progress has been in the wiring aspect of the layout.

Joe - The goal is still to have all the track down and powered by the end of the year. I still feel like we are on that schedule, though it could be close. There are times when I wished I lived further to the east, and not so far away from the center of the 3 rail world.

Mark - The scope of the layout is really more related to the enterTRAINment layout. This one is actually about the same square footage as that one. But, where that one was designed with the public in mind, this one is more of a railroad modeler's fantasy, designed for prototypical operation.

As for the Big Boy, I own one, but it is very unlikely that it will ever run on the layout. There are too many clearance issues. When construction started, nobody had made one yet. I'm going to try to get the Challenger around, but even that will require some tweaking.

Peter -  In the world of toy trains, building enterTRAINment was like climbing Mount Everest. So what do you do next? Maybe this is more like running from LA to New York. We're just going to keep chugging along on this thing.

RD - Yes, the chicken wire and the foil are TMCC ground planes. Because of the way we installed the layout lighting, using metal conduit and metal boxes, all of the chicken wire is directly connected to earth ground. The foil in the helix will also be connected. We haven't gotten track power to the upper deck yet to test it out. I sure hope it works. We're going to find out pretty soon.

Billy - That is an excellent observation. That's how I see it too. I am modelling a 60 mile long stretch of BNSF, CP and UP mainline as they cut through St Paul and Minneapolis. BTW, it isn't necessary to address me as "sir". We are all friends here, Elliot is just fine.

Forrest Jerome - Not yet, but very soon. An 8 camera closed circuit package is just waiting to be set up. There will be 6 cameras covering the big hidden yard and the other 2 will cover the new small yard.

""RD - Yes, the chicken wire and the foil are TMCC ground planes. Because of the way we installed the layout lighting, using metal conduit and metal boxes, all of the chicken wire is directly connected to earth ground. The foil in the helix will also be connected. We haven't gotten track power to the upper deck yet to test it out. I sure hope it works. We're going to find out pretty soon.""

So if I understand the chicken wire/foil will be tied in to the conduit for the under layout lighting which is grounded? Wouldn't the conduit itself be enough to prevent signal washout?

If you don't make sure your Big Boy has clearance to run on at least one line you will regret it... did you order a Vision Line BB??

RD - You're right the chicken wire might very well be redundant, as the conduit alone may serve the purpose. It may not even be necessary to add a ground plane, since the two levels are separated by 24". It was cheap and easy to do it during construction. Better to have it and not need it. On the other hand, the foil in the helix is necessary. I learned that the hard way when I built the first one and had major signal problems. I still have to go back and work on that some more.

I did not order a Vision Line Big Boy. I couldn't justify the cost for a single piece. Contrary to what my screen name might imply, I am not a big fan of steam. I only own 4 steam engines, and have no plans or desire to buy any more. The railroad is set in the era from 1970 to present, so I run almost all diesels. The Challenger and Milwaukee Road 261 will be used for steam excursions only.

The layout was originally designed with no continuous running loops. Recently a cutoff was added to the upper deck to form a loop.

No foolin' around this April, lots of progress to report. I happened to find some old to do lists, which I hadn't seen in months, buried on the workbench. I was able to cross off almost everything on them. That was FUN!!! So, then I made a new one.

The month began with that piece of backdrop, cut, but not attached.


In half an afternoon, it and four more pieces were hung.


Seams and screw heads filled and primed, it is ready for paint.


Patrick finished the paint today, and this area is ready for track.


Speaking of track, this month's big project was finishing the new hidden yard.


I did much of the work on this one, but Matt and Jon also helped.

The track on the far left goes past the yard and around a loop, then into one of the 7 yard tracks.

I'm really happy to have this done. Very soon I'll be able to open up this section, which will nearly double the length of the functioning loop to almost 1000'.


Here's the loop.





Matt got all the Tortoises installed on the loop end. The other end has nothing to control the points since all operations at that end are trailing point.


Now you see all that junk under the hidden yard.


Now you don't!!! Now it's just a matter of dealing with all those wires.


Patrick is on the case.


All month long, I picked and poked at converting some old Williams Superliners to LED lighting.


My adaptation of forum member RailRide's circuit.


The first set of six cars is done.


Patrick and I installed the 4 mini panels that I made months ago.


Jon and I connected them to the switches.


Lastly, we made the first connections to the second power supply.


All of the track on the lower level is now done. There is just one more section that needs to be done on the main level. Now I need to finalize the track plan for the next section of the upper deck.