My dream/nightmare layout... July Update 7/31/19 Big Boy month!

I have seen Elliott's layout.  He has done a great job.  Great shortage area.

Elliot I just want to say thank you for keeping us updated on your journey with this project keep the updates photos, and videos coming we are all enjoying your progress.. I know you will get much enjoyment running your trains when this layout is completed.. I have a real strong feeling that most of the enjoyment you will get is from watching others running there trains on this awesome layout....

Elliot,

 

I have been following your progress on your great layout from the beginning, and just watched the December video for the second time. Now, it is likely that you have explained this before and I either missed it or just forgot: it appears to me that the space between the dual main tracks on the helices as well as several other places is filled in, making the roadbed or surface even with the top of the rails. Is this correct? If I may ask, why and how did you do it? Also, how many feet of tracks have you used so far?

 

Thank you for sharing your progress and keep up the good work!

 

Alex

Frank, it's good to see you on this side of the tracks. You should come around more often.

 

Erie, actually the layout is not very well suited to visiting equipment. There is no way to run conventional or DCS. I use 100% TMCC. There are still some channels available, but most are in use.

 

The true purpose of the layout is to host operating session, ie other people come over and run my trains. There is certainly no shortage with something like 600 cars and 70 locomotives. I've lost count.

Elliot,

 

Since you're 100% TMCC, what are you going to do with all those purple and yellow boxes one sees in the video?  Are you converting those MTH PS1 through PS3 locos to TMCC?  Just curious.

Thank you Alex. When I returned to the forum about 18 months ago, your layout construction topic was still pretty active. I went back to the beginning and read the whole thing. I'm a little envious, because you took on a good sized project and finished it (to the extent that any model railroad is ever finished).

To answer your questions about the material between the tracks, here's the how and why.

I cut strips of Luan plywood to 4 different widths. Two narrow ones for outside or single track, and two wider ones for the middle of multiple track applications. I kerf cut them on the radial arm saw to bend the curves.

There are two layers. The first layer comes up to the top of the ties. This is the most important part. The inner most strip goes down first, laid to a drawn line. That becomes the bending jig for the Gargraves track. If it is multiple track, the wide strip goes down along the outside of the first track. This provides perfect spacing, and the next bending jig. At this point the track is locked in horizontally.

The second layer just goes over the ends of the ties to hold the track down.

How many feet of track? I haven't counted. I know the hidden yard is about 650'. That's a 50' lead track and 5, 120' tracks. I wish I could remember how much was at enterTRAINment. It might have been as much as 15 cases. Figure a 5% salvage loss. With that rough math, maybe 2000'.



Landsteiner, those boxes are all cars. I have recently bought a few Rail Kings which will be converted to TMCC. Matt tells me that the MTH boards have resale value, so that will help to offset the cost of ERR boards.

A week and a half into the new year, and things are hopping. On Monday and Tuesday I made and wired a control panel so we could finally have some working switches.

 

The schematic is all laid out in tape.

 

The toggle switches are installed.


All of the pre-wiring is done.


Matt came over on Wednesday, and we installed 13 Tortoises. Then with the panel in place, I made the final connections.


It may look like a mess, but it works! I'll tidy up later.


Patrick "Picasso" came over today, and primed the backdrop.


Then with a wave of his magic wand, it turned blue.



It is just amazing what a difference a blue backdrop makes. There is still lots of work to do, but it just feels a lot more finished.

Patrick will be back on Saturday, Matt will be back Sunday.

 

I think the nightmares are over and the dreams are really coming true.

That is awesome to hear! Good luck and keep the updates coming!

 

Definitely a MAJOR milestone when you reach that point.  Congratulations!!!

 

David

Frank,

 

I must say – cutting the strips of Luan plywood to make the spacers/jigs was a big project in itself, and it turned out very nicely! I suspect all the time you spent doing this paid off well when it came time to lay down the track. Another example of how planning and forward thinking always pays off.

 

Thank you for your comments on my layout thread. One thing I found out is that progress in the early stages shows up fast, but as we advance, the tasks become smaller so it does not appear that we are accomplishing that much – but we are. I completed most of the basic scenery earlier in 2013, about two years after starting the layout, and then started adding the finer details. I am also working on computerizing the controls, and that is another project in itself.

 

Please, continue to keep us up to date with your progress, and thanks again for sharing.

 

Alex

 

PS. BTW, your backdrop is coming along nicely and is going to look great!

Everytime I read this I am just amazed at this layout. It is absolutely fantastic.

Thanks guys! Sorry I didn't respond sooner, been kind of busy.

It is so cool to have working turnouts after all these years. It means that within the next few months limited switching operations can commence. From there we will just keep expanding the working area until all the track is down. After that it is on to signals and computer controls. Finally, structures and landscaping will complete the layout.

Alex, I'm a woodworker at heart, so I rather enjoy doing that whole Luan thing. I think what got me started was buying a radial arm saw 17 years ago. That made it easy to do the kerf cuts. The kerf cutting is the tedious part of process, because I make a cut every inch, then have to flip it over and do the same on the other side.

 

---

This has by far, been the busiest week the railroad has ever seen!

Friday I started a second panel which will control the hidden yard. I finished it Saturday after Patrick left.


We built the duck under at the entrance to the layout. It is going to take some getting used to. Nobody has been decapitated yet. It really isn't that bad at just under 5'. I'm 6'-1", so I just have to bend my back a little to get under. The jury is still out as to whether it should be removable or just permanent. I'm leaning toward permanent for a couple of reasons. First, with the continuous piece of plywood, the structure is very solid and less prone to warping. Second, there won't be all the issues with the track joints or "disaster prevention" wiring.


I had built the basic framework for this upper section years ago, but it wasn't very sturdy, and had very pronounced dip at the joint between sections. Patrick reinforced the joint by adding a piece of plywood to the face, and the two angle irons. Suddenly, it was smooth, level and solid.


In the process, we managed to destroy the one section of the layout looked somewhat complete. Not to worry, we can rebuild it, better than it was before.


I'm not sure why, but I seem to have an aversion to square support posts. We used a piece of 4" PVC pipe to conceal the structural 2x4. It looks like a highway bridge support. I could turn it into a grain elevator.


Matt was over again Sunday, and installed another 9 Tortoises. Down slightly from the 13 he did Wednesday, but the one shown below was rather tricky. The red tube is a radio control push rod. It is attached to the piano wire bell crank, which I use on all my turnouts.


We did it this way because there was really no good place to mount the motor near the switch.


The motor is about 3' away from the switch it throws.


16 of 20 turnouts are now connected to the first control panel. 2 more just need to have their wires connected, and the last 2 still need to be installed. The 4 most important switches, down in the hidden yard, now have their motors installed and tested. I now have to mount the new panel and get the wires strung down the length of the room. Then it's time to clean the yard and run some trains!

Wow, it is coming along.  Really cool. I like that switch - 3 feet fromthe motor. Nicely done.

Elliot - That's awesome!  At times Tortoise's really take some ingenuity, but they sure work well.  Your layout is really taking shape, looks fabulous!

 

Art 

Lee, that long distance throw method was something we used 20 years ago at the mall. Those are even the same push rods recycled. Only the motor has changed. I was going to use the giant screw drive machines from the mall, but the wiring confounded me. The Tortoises are so simple. I've modified them slightly to use the same heavy piano wire that I use on the bell cranks.

 

Art, all the switches that we have done so far were installed long ago, so it was going to be difficult to go back and drill the proper installation hole that they recommend. The bell cranks provide a simple way to make the throwing motion under the decking. it also allows for some of the springiness that a lighter gauge wire would provide.

Nice job on the long distance switch throw.  I had several of the same for an HO layout I updated for a guy several years back.  Luckily, tortoise makes adapters for that, just curious if you had ever seen them?

 

Thanks, I have seen them for sale online, but not in person. Is it me, or do they just look a little flimsy?

 

I'm pretty sure that all the switches located in the two helixes are going to require this remote treatment. My guess is there will be others.

Eliot,

 

I just caught up with this great thread, This is just simply amazing.The amount of work and craftsmanship is incredible. I'm sure these questions have been answered in this thread, but it would be to hard too find it. Eliot two questions I have, where is the layout located. Warehouse, basement, and how large is this layout.

 

Thanks,

Alex

Thanks Alex. I'm not sure how many pages back those answers are, so here they are again.

 

It is in my basement. The whole basement is 4450 sqft. The train room is about 2000 sqft, 38'x43' plus 12'x17'. I am located east of St Paul, MN. Visitors welcome by appointment.

 

Elliot,

 

Thanks for the info, this is really incredible. I will continue too follow your progress.

Maybe someday I'll be able too come see it in person

 

 

Thanks very much,

Alex

 

Hi Elliot.  I have enjoyed following your progress over the last year or so.  Thanks for the updates.

 

I really like the use of the radio control push rods for activating the switches in those areas where it is impossible to mount the Tortoise machine under the switch.  Could you please share some more information and perhaps some photos of the way it is connected at the switch?

 

As for the Tortoise adaptors, I have tried on several occasions to use one and was never able figure it out.  Your idea looks so much more "used friendly"!

 

Happy railroading,

Don

Yikes !! Gotta follow this build....very impressive !!!! 

Thanks Don. Here's how we do it:

We drill a hole about an inch or so away from the throw bar. It doesn't matter which side of the track or which side of the throw bar, so that gives you 4 choices, whatever is easiest. You want the hole to be aligned with the hole in the throw bar when the points are centered. A brass tube with an inside diameter slightly larger than the piano wire, and a length longer than the deck thickness, is glued into the hole. It makes no difference how thick the deck is, as long as you have a drill bit long enough.

Next you bend the piano wire to 90 degrees and add the second short bend to go through the throw bar. Getting this distance right is the key to smooth operation, you don't want it to bind. The small bit of metal at the end of the throw bar is the head of a finish nail. This is there to protect the points from being over thrown and to prevent breakage.


Once you have the arm on the top bent, simply bend the wire at the bottom of the tube. Here's the real beauty, it makes no difference what direction you bend it. Somewhere near perpendicular to where you plan to mount the motor is a good starting point, but since the push rod is flexible, even that isn't critical.

A loop is bent at the end of the lower arm, and the clevis, which comes with the push rod pack is clipped on. The red outer tube is glued to the wood block, and the block screwed to the bottom of the plywood deck.


In the original setup, there was a 2-56 set screw which connected the yellow rod, to the traveler of a screw drive style switch machine. Since that method was no good for use with the Tortoises, I found some small screw eyes at Home Depot. BTW, I changed out the wire that comes with the Tortoise, in favor of a heavier one. The same one that I use for the cranks.



In the end, this a fairly easy and very flexible method of powering turnouts at a distance.

Really great progress!

 

Thanks for posting

Welcome aboard Nessmuck.

 

You're welcome Rich. It is a labor of love, both the construction and the sharing.

Great progress Elliot!

Thanks Doug. I actually owe a lot of the credit to you, because it was after watching one of your videos (I think it was the first one or maybe the second) when you talked about installing Tortoises, which caused me to rethink the whole switch throwing concept.

 

You got my thinking unstuck.

 

Now Matt has installed 22 Tortoises this week in two, 5 hour sessions, and I have been right behind him making panels and doing the wiring. Another couple dozen or so and the lower level will be done. He'll be back Monday and may polish off the last 10 I have in stock. I'm on the hunt for more. I found a local source of used ones for $8 each, if he has any more.

 

I thought the same and only initially ordered one to test.  I ended up installing 3 or four and the worked well and were plenty robust.  The wire goes inside a tube and is high tensile strength steel, you need good cutters to cut to length so I was pleased it wouldn't break.  The first one was like anything else and took longer to install.  Once I did the others went on like cake.

 

If your method works and you have the materials, I see no reason to change.  I was just curious to see if anyone had used them in O as I had only used them in HO.

Another busy week on the layout.

Matt was here on Monday, and did another 10 Tortoises. Unfortunately, this kind of stuff doesn't make for interesting photos, but it is a major step forward toward the end goal of having operating sessions. We are now just 22 Tortoises away from completing the lower level. We should be able to wrap them up in a couple more visits. In the meantime, I'll keep working on the panels. I'm already one behind.

Patrick was here today. We picked up where we left off on the upper deck above Red Wing.


Then we moved over to the other side of the big helix, and put in two missing sections of benchwork. The one against the wall was not part of the original plan, but forms a cutoff that might allow me to run the Big Boy around the upper level.


I always thought about putting the turntable and roundhouse in the wasted space of the helix. I had hoped to be able to access it from the other side. On closer examination, the grade required to clear the top loop was just too much. The 90 degree crossing will provide access from the other side without the grade issues.


I built the frame and hung the hidden yard panel on Monday while Matt was working on the Tortoises. I didn't like the location, so today I moved it a foot to the left. Much better.


This crappy old Tyco power pack doesn't look like much, but it represents almost two hours of work for Patrick and me. We hung a 70' switch power buss, so all the local panels can get power.

 

Patrick will be back Friday. By then I hope to have a third panel made and all the switches working. Then we need to clean up and have some fun running trains.

Great progress Elliot!! 

Elliot...add me to the "train" of folks following this thread.  I spent last night reading all of the pages and now am caught up.  What a wonderful project that is shaping up to be world class!!

 

Alan

Thanks guys.

 

Alan, sometimes I go back to the beginning to see how far the layout has come and re-read all the wonderful and supportive comments.

---

 

 

Good news and bad news:

 

Let's start with the bad. Patrick had to cancel for tomorrow, more car trouble. This cold weather has been miserable. Hopefully he can make it Saturday.

 

The good news is the basement is nice and toasty, and I spent a few hours this afternoon building another control panel, adding lettering to the first panel, and making the final wire connections to the hidden yard switches.

 

Funny thing happened when went to test the connections. I flipped the switch on the panel, and thought nothing happened. Had to mute the TV, and listen very carefully because those Tortoises are so quiet. All 4 worked perfectly, first try.

 

Gonna try to head back down after the hockey game, for a few more hours. Expecting visitors Sunday.

I missed the update for the end of January. It was a very productive month. Patrick came over 5 times and Matt was here 3 times.

Matt installed 34 Tortoises, and I made 3 control panels and wired them up. We are very close to having all the lower level mainline switches done.

Patrick started the month by priming and painting the backdrop. After that we worked on the upper deck above Red Wing, building the bridge over the entrance to the layout, and ultimately connecting the two helixes. We also made connections to the south section from the big helix. Then it was time to clean track and run some trains.

On the 27th, I started laying track in Pigs Eye yard. I had no set plan, but with the real estate boundaries established, I set out to do what I do best,fill the space with track.

Ten days, a case of Gargraves and 22 switches later, this...


became this.









Now if only I could get the engines to run smoothly.

Wow!!! And I am agonizing over my 5 X 9 X 11 layout in the works.

Health is always 1st..

Now get into that train MANSION you built and get to work..

Good Luck in all you do

 

Wow!  A lot of progress!  Pigs Eye Yard looks really good. 

 

Art

Thanks Guys.

 

Brian, I will always have health issues, but working on the layout has actually helped to improve some of them. Thanks to Patrick and Matt, I stay motivated, and everything is really coming together.

 

Art, it was crazy how smoothly the yard came together. I just started on the west end with the simple ladder, and by the time I got to the east end, the design crystallized. As I was working, I kept thinking about how it would function.

 

I ordered some Hump Yard switch throws last week. I'll use those to manually throw the hard to reach switches on the east end. I'm excited to get the whole thing totally done.

Man that yard looks great Elliot. That is one thing we had to sacrafice due to space limitations. Its nice to be able to yard that many cars on the layout itself. Im jealous!

Thanks Doug, coming from a pro such as yourself, that's quite the compliment.

 

The yard has nice arrival and departure tracks, and that crossover makes for easy escapes. Engines can get to the service tracks in 2 or 3 moves from almost anywhere. There is also a super long lead on the west end, and a pretty good lead on the east end. The engine facility can hold 6-8 diesels. There's also a caboose/MOW storage track next to the west ladder.

Really neat project.  I love that you have people to share it with and build it with.  I have taken on construction of a 40x20 and am having fun doing so.  Unfortunately, I am building it by myself.  Much more fun if you have good friends who are into trains.

Thanks David. You know, if you really want help, just say so here on the forum. You live in the state with the most members. Even though you aren't near any of the major population centers, there are probably quite a few people within a reasonable drive.

 

The entire state of Minnesota only has 86 members. I feel lucky to have found two of them. Patrick lives almost 2 hours away.