Need More Power at outer fringes.

I'm sure others will chime in on this but with engines with cruise control they usually ignore slight voltage issues. You could add a couple of additional electrical contacts to those areas and it may solve your problem without adding additional transformers.

When I wired my layout I used 10 and 12 gauge wire from HD with only a few drops. If you use too light of a gauge you tend to have more resistance and drops in voltage. Could this be your issue?

The only time I noticed an issue with voltage, I have two 135 PH connected to each of my TPC's, was when I was running the recently released CC Berkshire. On the back section of the layout it would slow down, I don't have any wire drops in that area, and in the front section it would speed up. That never happens with any of my engines that have Odyssey.

Tm9

I am using OGRR's wiring for all parts to the track in the layout. I have multiple drops connected back to the same point so that the DCS signal reaches all tracks at the same time. So instead of homerun wiring mine is star wiring.

Thus adding additional bricks at certain points is not difficult.

You need drops there because you have enough voltage drop to slow down the engine. Even in conventional control Odyssey has cruise control activated.

Homerun and star wiring are one in the same.

Your original post sounds like you want to put 720 watts on the rails. Do not do that.

Right now you have the potential to put 360 watts through a TIU channel only rated for 200 watts. 

Your power needs should not change depending on which side of the layout you are on. I suggest you check for voltage drops. Did you insulate the center rails on your blocks and drops.

Yes I know. Eventually I'll get around to it. That section of the layout is up against a wall and I have to remove the yard section, the layout is sideways"L" shaped, to pull the main section from against the wall to work on that section.

Right now you have the potential to put 360 watts through a TIU channel only rated for 200 watts. 

 

 

Your power needs should not change depending on which side of the layout you are on. I suggest you check for voltage drops. Did you insulate the center rails on your blocks and drops.

I have had this 200 watt rating question before. The answer I was told by my LHS is that that rating is fictitious as what goes in goes out. It assumes that each channel will be separately powered or isolated; so don't go over 200 when you do that. When you cross-connect as I have done the rating is really 400 watts overall, (actually 800 if you consider the variable channels that I am not using) so each channel contributes as needed. There really is no isolation between the four channels. Again, I have had this discussion with my LHS who wires their layout the same way without problems.

INSULATing the center rails between blocks. REALLY I first did this and was then told by my LHS not to insulate. Maybe I need a new LHS?

Alan,

A few thoughts...

Right now, I have two 180 bricks cross-connected between both fixed voltage ports on the TIU so that each of my two lines can share the 360 watts as need by the engine loads on each line

First, DCS operates best when the blocks are center rail-insulated from each other. Actually, that is what makes them blocks in the first place.

Second, each block should have one and only one connection to the TIU via a terminal block.

I want to add two more 180 bricks at two fringes of the layout; one per fringe, to get a little more  of a power boost to both lines

Third, connecting more than one transformer to the same track without the use of a device intended for that purpose (such as a TPC) is a very bad idea. I should point out to you that you are already doing that by having a pair of transformers connected to two TIU channels where the  two channels are, essentially, themselves connected.

INSULATing the center rails between blocks. REALLY I first did this and was then told by my LHS not to insulate. Maybe I need a new LHS?

Fourth, the TIU channels should not have the center rails of their respective tracks connected. If this was the advice given to you by your LHS, you need to stop taking their advice.

The answer I was told by my LHS is that that rating is fictitious as what goes in goes out. It assumes that each channel will be separately powered or isolated; so don't go over 200 when you do that. When you cross-connect as I have done the rating is really 400 watts overall, (actually 800 if you consider the variable channels that I am not using) so each channel contributes as needed. There really is no isolation between the four channels. Again, I have had this discussion with my LHS who wires their layout the same way without problems.

Your LHS guy has some strange ideas about electricity. Amps are not supplied by transformers, rather, they are drawn by the load on the tracks. If you get a short circuit, you could potentially draw 400 amps through a single TIU channel. Not a good thing.

I suggest that you do a few things to your railroad:

• Break all of your so-called blocks into real blocks by insulating their center rails from each other
• Assure that there is only one connection (power/DCS) to each block
• Use all four channels with 4 transformers, one per channel
• Connect about 25% of the blocks to each channel.

 

Is this in any book??

 

Absolutely - it's in The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition.  

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/60-1279

Barry

thanks again 

as I'm literally restarting my layout from being in operational-stasis for a few (humm) maybe more than a few years I will strongly consider what you have said and reconsider the advice from my LHS. I think the cross connection was something the LHS suggested after obtaining their MTH certification training so . . .

And of course buy your book.

First, DCS operates best when the blocks are center rail-insulated from each other. Actually, that is what makes them blocks in the first place.

Second, each block should have one and only one connection to the TIU via a terminal block.

This is the exact opposite to Lionel TMCC/Legacy System. They don't recommend blocks. The command engines respond individually and no blocks are needed.

Now I have insulated the center rails in my yard and also in a passing track but that was so I could turn off the power in those sections using a Block Power Controller and a Switch and Accessory Controller. Otherwise there would have been no need to insulate those center rails.

Alan,

I think the cross connection was something the LHS suggested after obtaining their MTH certification training so . . .

...  they must have been asleep in class.

This is the exact opposite to Lionel TMCC/Legacy System. They don't recommend blocks. The command engines respond individually and no blocks are needed.

That's because, Legacy and TMCC don't care at all how the layout is wired. What they  do care about, and care about a great deal, is establishing a solid ground plane.

My layout is wired with the techniques I've described above, and DCS, TMCC and Legacy all work extremely well on my layout, without any ground plane issues at all.

Although DCS will most certainly work using a wide variety of layout wiring topologies, if wiring from scratch using the guidelines I've described will all but assure a solid DCS signal, as well as excellent TMCC/Legacy performance.

Barry

I said that my layout's electrical operation was in stasis I think my brain was as well.

I DID isolate the center rails by another process; I have a series of "hinged" lift out geezer-bridges that act as isolation points, where when the bridges are in-place the outside rails are connected but the center rail is isolated; so Legacy and DCS can play nice together. I don't know why I did not recall that; I guess it's "onset memory-loss". 

Anyway, Barry If I use all four TIU ports as "Fixed" voltage ports I can use all four 180W bricks as you suggested in an non cross-over electrical set-up and just split up the load among the track sections.  CORRECT?

I have two older ZWs powering a separated traditional layout with all of the LNL accessories. So I will never control conventional engines with any of the remotes. I don't then need the two variable TIU ports for that purpose.

Alan,

Anyway, Barry If I use all four TIU ports as "Fixed" voltage ports I can use all four 180W bricks as you suggested in an non cross-over electrical set-up and just split up the load among the track sections.  CORRECT?

Yes, that's correct.

4 Bricks is a lot of power. Do you need that much?

In most cases 1 Brick will run 2 to 3 trains easily.