New Catalog Item 2-10-0 Strasburg Engine #90

Here's a screen grab of the CAD. I changed the color of the parts based on material. The main structure of the cab will be die-cast, as will the loco frame/gearbox, wheels, steam chest, and the tender truck components.

The loco boiler and the tender body will be brass.

The boiler couldn't be round all the way under like in the photos posted above. There are simply too many features to fit in this engine for all of that. The main PCB is large, there's a dual smoke unit for the stack and whistle, a motor w/ encoder, a die-cast backdrivable gearbox, and more. Not to mention, 90 is a small engine despite being a 2-10-0.

Hope this answers some questions.

@Dave Olson posted:

Here's a screen grab of the CAD. I changed the color of the parts based on material. The main structure of the cab will be die-cast, as will the loco frame/gearbox, wheels, steam chest, and the tender truck components.

The loco boiler and the tender body will be brass.

The boiler couldn't be round all the way under like in the photos posted above. There are simply too many features to fit in this engine for all of that. The main PCB is large, there's a dual smoke unit for the stack and whistle, a motor w/ encoder, a die-cast backdrivable gearbox, and more. Not to mention, 90 is a small engine despite being a 2-10-0.

Hope this answers some questions.

Dave, that is a thing of beauty IMO. While some don't hold any interest in it, I do. My railroading interests are much like anyone else, my taste. I can understand why some like and some dislike locomotives, some rolling stock, and certain railroads. We all have bend and breaking points. For me not to get #90 would be a sin in my eyes. There is just a great abundance of fascination about decapod locomotives to me. Whenever you start running other decapods, I'll have to learn if those railroads had them and if it fits my taste.

First off Dave, the people who did that CAD render did a splendid job.

Second, while I know some won't accept the boiler being fully round (and to an extent I get why), it still looks very impressive and still shows that a lot of thought and effort is going into the project of this fan favorite.

Dave,

As long as the boiler is as prototypical as possible, especially above the front most drivers, that's all we can ask. I think you know what I was referring to regarding earlier Lionel die-cast steamers with the suspension cast into the superstructure, kind of a horseshoe-monolithic shape.

Am also glad to hear that the boiler will be made out of brass. Although the price point is still an ocher for me, I can see how the model is shaping up to a fine-looking locomotive.

Paul

After considerable evaluation and number-crunching, I am simply cannot afford nor justify selling other stuff off to pay for No. 90. Lionel has pushed the price-point over the top on this model, albeit for my little world. It's all relative, and the fact that I have the PE Acela set on pre-order was a factor in my decision; too some that set was over-priced however I got a very good pre-order price on the set and add-on cars.

I already have the MTH Strasburg cars and use my Legacy Reading Atlantic to pull them - not a perfect match but it's a nice consist.

For those that have one on order, I'll likely drool over the forthcoming pictures and videos, and part of me will regret not pre-ordering one. Lionel indicated that future No. 90 models are forthcoming, so maybe one day.

@Paul Kallus posted:

For those that have one on order, I'll likely drool over the forthcoming pictures and videos, and part of me will regret not pre-ordering one. Lionel indicated that future No. 90 models are forthcoming, so maybe one day.

Maybe the future Strasburg models will be cheaper.  NAA, that ain't happening!

@Dave Olson posted:

The boiler couldn't be round all the way under like in the photos posted above. There are simply too many features to fit in this engine for all of that. The main PCB is large, there's a dual smoke unit for the stack and whistle, a motor w/ encoder, a die-cast backdrivable gearbox, and more. Not to mention, 90 is a small engine despite being a 2-10-0.

Can you squeeze a swinging bell in?

I think #90 is the same type of engine that was Seaboard Air Line's Class D2-D3,  Here's D-3 #533 (with another tender???):

@Conrail6358 posted:

Not sure we covered all the questions on the FB post today so let me jump in on a few while I have a chance:

1. Metal side rods of course.  Most will be "polished" but some will feature blackened rods for other roads to represent a more in-service appearance.  (In service on a railroad that doesn't keep them as prim and proper as the SRC anyway!)

2. All of the catalog art is based off of our initial drawings which Dave helped render into an image format.  There will be some detail differences between some of the Strasburg units and especially the Strasburg and other railroads.  We will post updated images as we can.  The art is correct for the current Strasburg scheme.

3.  1967/2020 - 90 was repainted in this 1967 paint scheme last year for a photo charter.  It didn't last long (less than a week I think.)  But we wanted to offer it anyway because it is such a striking paint scheme.  A future run of these locomotives will include the extended smokebox.  When we have that, we'll re-run this paint scheme with the appropriate details. (And of course the later GW paint as well.)  So if you're looking for an accurate 1967-1980s #90, its in the works.  Didn't want to drop another 27 loco run on all of you at once like we did with the GS locos!  There are lots more Decapods in the future. (Hang in there KO&G fans!!!)

4.  Likewise the details on the Great Western 90s shown here will both be different.  One will be the loco as delivered on the GW.  The other is the original paint with modern SRC details.

5.  All will have builders plates.

6. We're working with the SRC every step of the way on these and we'll match graphite colors as closely as possible to the different eras as shown in the catalog.

7. Not asked here but bears repeating.  This locomotive is all new tooling.  Unlike past hybrids where we started with an existing drive/frame, this one required new tooling for all of those parts.  Most of you already know because I've certainly dropped enough hints that this project has been in development for quite a few years.  It is not an MTH Russian Decapod with Strasburg paint.

8. We are working with the SRC on sounds - including loco and dialog recordings.

9. Don't think it was mentioned in the catalog but like other brass hybrids, these will be individually numbered.

10. Swinging bell - we tried.  Won't fit!  Really, we tried!  I still owe Dave a dinner for that...

I'll be on a live Facebook and YouTube broadcast with the Strasburg on August 2.  So hopefully I'll be able to catch any questions I've missed or any new ones which come up then!  Please join us.  And we hope to have a first sample on hand by October - I want the photo op of our 90 with 90! 

I am not an expert by any means and dont know all of the fine details about #90. That said I have been to Strasburg many years ago and #90 was at the front end of the  train my family took during our visit.  I did have one other opportunity to be behind #90 and it was a very special and once in a life time experience at that . On January 10th 1981 my wife and I were invited quests of the cars owner to ride on the last trip of the the Lotos Club Heavyweight Pullman Car which was being donated to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. The Lotos Club left New York and was pulled by a GG1 to Leaman Place.  At that point #90 came out and picked up the car and brought it to the Museum.  A small switcher did the final move into the Museum where it resides today.  So I am thinking about buying this engine but looking at the pictures I took I dont see the paint scheme from that January day in 1981. The attached photo shows a white "egg" logo on the tender. (I cant tell if there is a color inside the egg logo)   I am also not sure if at that time 90 had the extended smoke box or not but the smoke box looks black not silver. Can anyone elaborate on what this picture suggests to them and in what time frame was this paint scheme used?   I realize there might never be an exact replica from that specific paint and detail scheme,  however maybe there is something close in the Lionel Catalogue or will be down the road.  One way or another I am really would like on one these engines with the associated cars.  It is really great that this engine is being produced in O Scale.  I would also like to make the suggestion of producing the Lotos Club Heavyweight Pullman.  I realize that is a big ask for maybe a very limited audience however this did happen as the picture I took demonstrates.  Maybe I could have someone custom paint and detal a heavyweight Pullman as the Lotos Club.  Any suggestions?   

@whistlebell1 posted:

I am not an expert by any means and dont know all of the fine details about #90. That said I have been to Strasburg many years ago and #90 was at the front end of the  train my family took during our visit.  I did have one other opportunity to be behind #90 and it was a very special and once in a life time experience at that . On January 10th 1981 my wife and I were invited quests of the cars owner to ride on the last trip of the the Lotos Club Heavyweight Pullman Car which was being donated to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. The Lotos Club left New York and was pulled by a GG1 to Leaman Place.  At that point #90 came out and picked up the car and brought it to the Museum.  A small switcher did the final move into the Museum where it resides today.  So I am thinking about buying this engine but looking at the pictures I took I dont see the paint scheme from that January day in 1981. The attached photo shows a white "egg" logo on the tender. (I cant tell if there is a color inside the egg logo)   I am also not sure if at that time 90 had the extended smoke box or not but the smoke box looks black not silver. Can anyone elaborate on what this picture suggests to them and in what time frame was this paint scheme used?   I realize there might never be an exact replica from that specific paint and detail scheme,  however maybe there is something close in the Lionel Catalogue or will be down the road.  One way or another I am really would like on one these engines with the associated cars.  It is really great that this engine is being produced in O Scale.  I would also like to make the suggestion of producing the Lotos Club Heavyweight Pullman.  I realize that is a big ask for maybe a very limited audience however this did happen as the picture I took demonstrates.  Maybe I could have someone custom paint and detal a heavyweight Pullman as the Lotos Club.  Any suggestions?   

The paint in the picture is most likely the same as the egg logo that Lionel is currently offering.

That being said, up until the 1990's, #90 had an "extended smokebox" that was added by the Great Western during it's service career there.

Ryan at Lionel stated that they intend to offer an extended smokebox version of 90 in the future. If you email him, he might have a better idea of whats-to-come in terms of Lionel's future for models of 90.

Nonetheless, very cool story about the Lotos Club! Thank you for sharing!

Update on the models of 90:

Ryan announced last night on his "Workbench Wednesday" live stream that Lionel is expecting engineering samples of 90 end of Dec./early Jan. - he relayed that he told the factory to take their time and make sure it's right. He also said that he approved SRC passenger car deco (painted?) samples recently - I am hoping they will be exact color match to MTH versions. Sounds like good news all around regarding both items.

Skip to 40:15 in the video for the discussion on 90 and SRC cars.

I sure as heck hope so(and by heck, you know what I mean). If this gets botched, there will be so much bad taste in everyone's mouth..........

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I sure as heck hope so(and by heck, you know what I mean). If this gets botched, there will be so much bad taste in everyone's mouth..........

Not to mention a large hole in the wallet!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not to mention a large hole in the wallet!

Only if you keep it.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not to mention a large hole in the wallet!

My wallet has lots of holes, that's how the money gets on and out.

@MartyE posted:

Only if you keep it.

Well, what else we supposed to do, rent it out/lease it like some railroads? Haha.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, what else we supposed to do, rent it out/lease it like some railroads? Haha.

Send it back!

@MartyE posted:

Send it back!

Only if the engine is not as it is supposed to be, I think now that my mind is more relaxed that is what you are getting at Marty. Wish I would have got that sooner, long day at work took it out of me I guess.

Yep if it isn't correct return it for a refund.  Otherwise it will drive you crazy.

What a world.  We now have folks being told to send back locomotives before they're even made...

Rusty

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

My wallet has lots of holes, that's how the money gets on and out.

My wallet has no problem letting money out, it's getting the money into it that's the problem!

@Rusty Traque posted:

What a world.  We now have folks being told to send back locomotives before they're even made...

Rusty

Ah that is not what Marty is saying. Besides, the amount of time that has been spent on this particular locomotive I would say requires them to get it right. Ryan has put himself in the crunch zone moreso than before because of him saying, "we want to get it right" or something like that. If these engines come out in the 49er paint scheme, it will just be a huge disaster the likes which we've never seen(well, me anyway).

To further on Marty's point, he has been an advocate for the quality control issues to tighten for a good number of years. So much has come up nuts when it should be what it is supposed to be. He has said several times over the years, "we need to send them back if they are wrong."

@Rusty Traque posted:

What a world.  We now have folks being told to send back locomotives before they're even made...

Rusty

No, we have folks being told that if it incorrect and they can't live with it being so to send it back.  This should be normal operating procedure.  Some of the "issues" can be subjective and I am not talking about those.  Some issues are blatant and if folks accept them then it becomes the norm.    Big difference.

I actually think and hope the 90 will be spectacular.  I believe Ryan and the Lionel team are taking this project and keeping a close eye on it.  I think they know it has to be correct.

As long as the smokebox on the 2000's version is this shade of graphite and the side rods not overly shiny, then I will be happy.

(My photo of 90 from last weekend)

@Grampstrains posted:

No matter how good that engine is when it's made, someone will find fault with it.

That is always true. Thing is people can be happy with the limitations of modeling, but shouldn't be happy with something that is completely and utterly wrong like colors or misspelled words(and other things).

@MartyE posted:

No, we have folks being told that if it incorrect and they can't live with it being so to send it back.  This should be normal operating procedure.  Some of the "issues" can be subjective and I am not talking about those.  Some issues are blatant and if folks accept them then it becomes the norm.    Big difference.

I actually think and hope the 90 will be spectacular.  I believe Ryan and the Lionel team are taking this project and keeping a close eye on it.  I think they know it has to be correct.

The question is as long as a physical model (#90 in this case) doesn't exist, how do you know what's wrong it?  The CAD image seems pretty good to me, but until it exists physically there's nothing really to criticize.  I also agree that Lionel's engineers and production managers should be working to get this model as correct as possible, especially if Lionel is working with Strasburg.

This model has a higher expectations than any of the Big Boys Lionel produced, but talking about sending it back at this time without a physical model is just blowing smoke.

Rusty

@Grampstrains posted:

Perhaps but creating a problem before one exists is absurd.

Well, some people can never be happy. I have only met two or three people in my life that fall into this category and thankfully I do not. There's just no pleasing some people.

@Rusty Traque posted:

The question is as long as a physical model (#90 in this case) doesn't exist, how do you know what's wrong it?  The CAD image seems pretty good to me, but until it exists physically there's nothing really to criticize.  I also agree that Lionel's engineers and production managers should be working to get this model as correct as possible, especially if Lionel is working with Strasburg.

This model has a higher expectations than any of the Big Boys Lionel produced, but talking about sending it back at this time without a physical model is just blowing smoke.

Rusty

But Marty isn't saying send it back without it being here to have eyes see it. He is saying that people should send it back if it is wrong, meaning after it is in there hands to see.

I'm sure I won't send it back before I see it, and I doubt I'll have to send it back.  Good grief, we're complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet!  Don't we have enough to complain about that has happened?

It's gonna be good guys. We plan on going to Strasburg and recording 90 ourselves for the sounds. We just revised the CAD to add even more separate detailing. It'll be a nice loco.

We're gonna trust you on this one Dave, well at least I'm going to trust you.   Looking forward to seeing this one, a real Strasburg locomotive has been a long time coming!

Thanks Dave. I look forward to seeing the hard work put into this.

I really don’t see much complaining just discussion of what to do if folks are unsatisfied and other good discussion on the item itself.

@Dave Olson posted:

It's gonna be good guys. We plan on going to Strasburg and recording 90 ourselves for the sounds. We just revised the CAD to add even more separate detailing. It'll be a nice loco.

Dave, I'm sure I speak for others when I say that I appreciate the time and effort you and the team are putting in on these models.

Better get to Strasburg soon, 90 doesn't have that much more flue time before her upcoming 1472. Be sure to note the smokebox shade of graphite while you are there.

As a ride note, there was a recent discussion on RYPN in which Kelly Anderson (recently retired member of Strasburg mechanic team) mentioned that 90's original as built whistle was very similar to a PRR passenger whistle - it would be cool to see you guys include this as one of the 5 whistle options.

Good to hear from Dave again, and hope that this lives up to everyone's expectations(which some people may have higher than most, just saying).

The main thing I am looking forward to in this catalog is this model. I opted for the 2000's version of it because that is the one that I rode behind. I believe that this model should be one of the best produced, and hopefully with the reassurances at York about sample, the colors and any other thing that may slip through the cracks, should be spotted beforehand.

Like Marty said, not complaining, discussing. And the bit about returning/sending back should be interpreted like if you went to a restaurant. What I mean and what should be the obvious is that if you order a hamburger, you may let the pickles not being on there slide. However, if you ordered a hamburger, and a hot dog comes instead, there is going to be big issues. Yeah, I know, hot dogs and hamburgers, how ridiculous. Enough about that.

@Dave Olson, are you going to highlight anything in the future in Demos with Dave(before the engine gets in), or even if you and Ryan just talk about how things are going with this during any conversations you have live?