New Lionel Legacy with Bluetooth Engines misconceptions.

Good idea to post this Marty, I've seen the same comments about the new locomotives, didn't think to refute them.

That is nice. How does one identify these Bluetooth capable engines? Example: Like maybe a "B" at the end of the part number?

Well right now it would be up to the user to do some homework. I'm not sure from a product number alone one can tell. The latest catalog Legacy engines all have it with the exception of the K4. 

I suspect the box end will also have that listed. 

EXCELLENT info, Marty! I am sure there are some (plenty) out there who do not understand the distinctions between what is required and what can be done with the various capabilities.

I'd hate to see someone miss out on an engine they've been waiting for because they misunderstood how it works.

We will be incorporating some Bluetooth talk into the Legacy Meeting this year since it now has entered the Legacy world. 

Doesn't the catalog also say the Bluetooth engines can be run with the LC+ Universal Remote?

sinclair posted:

Doesn't the catalog also say the Bluetooth engines can be run with the LC+ Universal Remote?

Good point. I'll add that. 

"

Legacy locos are downward compatible with the LC Universal Remote. Great.

Now all we need is for Lionchief+ locos to be upward compatible to be run with the CAB2...

"Now all we need is for Lionchief+ locos to be upward compatible to be run with the CAB2."

I suspect there would be a market for a Legacy to LionChief "bridge" device.

Dave Zucal posted:

That is nice. How does one identify these Bluetooth capable engines? Example: Like maybe a "B" at the end of the part number?

Excellent suggestion that Lionel should identify their new and significantly better featured Bluetooth locos w/ a "B" in each respective model's part i.d. number.  Currently there can be some slight confusion when shopping for LionChief and there are the first edition then the shortly later LC Plus models.  IIRC, there were both LC and LC+ models in the same catalog which can confuse some buyers (and sellers).  

Lionel, please don't make the same mistake as MTH when they continued to use the same number i.d. method (xx-xxxx-01) for advances throughout Proto's 1, 2 and 3 as well as significant hardware upgrades to their dcs tiu.  Identification by all (including mfr.) would be easier; sometimes the product catalog listing or the actual box end listing features is readily available.  Lastly, a new SKU number should not add cost to product.

Marty,

Do you know if there is a selection process during installation to choose between Legacy or Bluetooth operation or can the engine be operated by both systems at the same time - one person holding the Legacy remote and one person holding an iDevice with the Bluetooth app and both being able to send commands to the engine ?

Thanks.

Richie C. posted:

Marty,

Do you know if there is a selection process during installation to choose between Legacy or Bluetooth operation or can the engine be operated by both systems at the same time - one person holding the Legacy remote and one person holding an iDevice with the Bluetooth app and both being able to send commands to the engine ?

Thanks.

Legacy and Bluetooth operations are independant. @Dave Olson can answer as to which system has priority when both maybe in use. It's all new so we are all learning together. 

MartyE posted:

Well right now it would be up to the user to do some homework. I'm not sure from a product number alone one can tell. The latest catalog Legacy engines all have it with the exception of the K4. 

I suspect the box end will also have that listed. 

All O Gauge Legacy Locos from 2017C2 and beyond will be Bluetooth equipped.

The K4 is not because it was made with the 2017C1 round of K4s as that set was preplanned (I.E. they were not 'excess' locos)

The online features as well as the features on the box will say Bluetooth. It will also be required for us to put the official Bluetooth logo on the box. The engines will also have the FCC statement on the underside as required by law. Probably under the tender on steams and in between a truck and frame on diesels.

Let me whip up a video of an engine operating w/ both Legacy and BLE and post it in a couple hours.

Yes, thanks for posting this.

We've seen the future of train control. Except for the part that comes 50 years from now when some us will no longer be worrying about it!

From my iPhone:

This a screenshot of my iPhone.  I am running over twenty locomotives with MTH DCS Wi-Fi and all is well. Have programed this APP to run MTH / Lionel TMCC & Legacy.  On the Lionel side, just name the locomotive and type in the address.

I have the Lionel APP on my iPhone but no locomotive to run. My dealer thinks my first Bluetooth loco will be in around November 1st., 2017.

I feel this has been a big plus for my train room because my adult children have come back to the hobby, MTH and Lionel have got to keep the basic APP free.  I run the premium APP but for train room visitors they have to keep the APP free. 

Gary

Here's my video. Sorry for the low quality. The higher quality video was too large to upload to the forum.

This is the second sample of the brass hybrid. It hasn't been polished or coated or anything. Just a test loco for engineering to do code work with, so it isn't the prettiest. Also doesn't have final sounds in it yet, so don't worry about the whistle/dialog etc. This engine will have ATSF 3751 whistle.

Let me know if this answers all questions. Happy to be here to answer more as they arise.

As another posted said, the next thing is being able to run LC+ engines on the legacy remote. 

Thanks dave for posting.

like I mentioned in the past technology has gotten to the point where you no longer need a operating system on your layout.  Either Bluetooth or wifi receivers can be installed right in the locomotive.  Lionel has decided to go the Bluetooth route, MTH down the road might decide to install a wifi receiver in the engine.   Can you imagine linking a engine to your home wifi network?   No need to mess with TIU, WIU, TMCC command bases or what have you, or the expense of those systems.  Exciting times.

Hi Dave: from Lionel Engineering

Questions.

1.  Can a Lionel Legacy Engine with Bluetooth, work without having a Legacy Base?  Just run with the LC APP only.

2.  I do use the Universal Remote, same thing. Will the Legacy Loco work with the Universal Remote, not having a Legacy Base?

Cool demo video.

Gary

Thanks dave very informative video. Engineering has a another good man on our side. 

Excellent video, Dave, and that answers my question about being able to use Legacy and Bluetooth at the same time.

As a "grandpa" with 3 and 6 year old grandkids, looks like I'll be holding the Legacy remote while they operate the BT !! 

Two more quick questions, though:

1. Does that mean the Legacy remote has "priority" over the BT ?

2. Can you have more than one  BT iDevice inputting the engine at the same time ?

Thanks.

trainroomgary posted:

Hi Dave: from Lionel Engineering

Questions.

1.  Can a Lionel Legacy Engine with Bluetooth, work without having a Legacy Base?  Just run with the LC APP only.

2.  I do use the Universal Remote, same thing. Will the Legacy Loco work with the Universal Remote, not having a Legacy Base?

Cool demo video.

Gary

Yes to both questions. It will run with the APP or the Universal Remote without needing any kind of command base.

Richie C. posted:

Excellent video, Dave, and that answers my question about being able to use Legacy and Bluetooth at the same time.

As a "grandpa" with 3 and 6 year old grandkids, looks like I'll be holding the Legacy remote while they operate the BT !! 

Two more quick questions, though:

1. Does that mean the Legacy remote has "priority" over the BT ?

2. Can you have more than one  BT iDevice inputting the engine at the same time ?

Thanks.

1. While there is no priority per se (the commands get send to the engine simultaneously), the Legacy remote has features the APP/UR does not such as brake, reset, etc.

2. No. This is the same Bluetooth radio that's in the LC and LC+ engines. Once a Bluetooth device attaches to the loco, no other Bluetooth device can see it. In essence, it is 'owned' by the device until released.

Wow Dave , that's a good video for me to watch numerous times.lol 

LOTS of information, Thanks.

Larry

Dave Olson posted:

Yes to both questions. It will run with the APP or the Universal Remote without needing any kind of command base.

1. While there is no priority per se (the commands get send to the engine simultaneously), the Legacy remote has features the APP/UR does not such as brake, reset, etc.

2. No. This is the same Bluetooth radio that's in the LC and LC+ engines. Once a Bluetooth device attaches to the loco, no other Bluetooth device can see it. In essence, it is 'owned' by the device until released.

Hi Dave: from Lionel Engineering

"It will run with the APP or the Universal Remote without needing any kind of command base".

Thanks for getting back to us........

This is a Big Time Game Changer.  Put the locomotive on the track, get your Android or Apple device and we are running trains.

Great News: Gary

Thanks for the quick reply, Dave, and great stuff, as usual.

I'll be going to my local LHS to pre-order a couple of Legacy/BT trains (and the Renz Hobby Shop).

I have to agree with Gary, it's is a game changer. Really nice to see all the options @Dave Olson. Thanks for the video I think it answers a lot. I'm glad I didn't get anything overtly wrong. 

Thanks for the video, Dave. How many Bluetooth capable engines can be running on a layout at one time and will the app have a multi throttle screen so that we don't have to engine search and select to control it? Bachmann's app has this capability for their Bluetooth HO's and it makes it so easy to run several trains at once. They also can pair to a Bluetooth capable stereo and all the engine sound will play through it. I would love to see these features on the Lionel app if some day possible.

Only one with the LionChief APP as of now. The Universal will run 3 total. So you could run 3 Legacy BLE engines at once using that.

Future APP upgrades is definitely something we have in mind, but you have to understand the limitations. APP development is extremely expensive and very time intensive. We've been working on the Android LC APP since February now and it'll finally be ready later September. You also have to keep in mind that the LC APP is a free APP, so there are business plans to keep in mind.

That said, we have so many new development projects on our list right now with exciting new things planned for the next 2+ years. So there's no lack of new stuff that people will be seeing. It just takes time to do is all. If I could wiggle my nose and make an APP overnight I'd be that happiest guy ever! 

Great information here.....thanks, Mart for starting this thread! 

Peter

Interesting info Marty and Dave. Maybe this  should be posted up above in the help topics so its easier to find.

Terrific video and information, Dave. Re-watching and digesting the information will keep me occupied for awhile!

One question:  I already have a LC+ universal remote, about 6 weeks old. Will the universal remote updates you mentioned be available to load into these pre-existing remotes?

breezinup posted:

One question:  I already have a LC+ universal remote, about 6 weeks old. Will the universal remote updates you mentioned be available to load into these pre-existing remotes?

Yes Sir. I'll post instructions when it's ready.

That's great. Thanks.

I fear this ship has sailed (or the train has left the station, to adapt the metaphor) but is there any chance Bluetooth can be installed in the 2017 Vol. 1 Legacy engines that haven't yet arrived?  I'm thinking about the NYC S-motor.  When I have friends over for Christmas it would be great to let them hook up to an engine on their phones.

@Dave Olson any idea when or if we will be able to run LC+ engines on the legacy remote? 

@MartyE @Dave Olson

Thanks for explaining this and the video! 

Excellent news, will the bluetooth app allow lashup of engines or will we have to use the Legacy app?