Blackwater Canyon Line - April 2, 2025, Brick Street Extension Planning

Great job!

"You may notice that the double track bridge is just a smidgeon higher than the track off each end."

Looking good, Mark!  Did you mean to say that the bridge is a little lower than the track on the main layout?

Thank you, Darrell and Bob!

Bob, I’m going to go back and check, higher or lower.  Looking at the video again confused me.  🫡

The High Line looks great. Congrats on a successful run.   Isn’t it a great feeling hitting a milestone like that?  👍🏼

Thank you, Vin!  It is a great feeling hitting a milestone for sure!!

Bob Bartizak, the bridge is just a little bit higher than the track.  It is really close, though.  Watching the video, i got to the point, I couldn't tell which way the engine was going.  Thank you for asking the question, because I often describe things backwards.

Looks great Mark! I like the fine tuning you’ve done, worth it.

Andy

Thank you, Andy!  Yes, it is a good idea to do a little bit and check it out thoroughly, before locking things down with wiring, ballast, and then find out it doesn’t work in all situations.

To that end, I am mocking up the remaining (foreground) ramp to see how it works out.  The problem is it has to be somewhat more steep than the original 4% where the grade started shortly after the truss bridge.  I wanted to have the two switches level, so I lost a few feet of grade.  I am making some of it up, by shoving that grade back about 8” from the front of the table.  I’ll mock it up, jumper some power and run trains up to see how it works.  Please stay tuned.  

Hey Mark, Sorry I haven't been here lately, But I wanted to say the switch fix looks great! I am sure you will get the bridge smoothed out! It just take's a few runs over it back and forth before you find the happy medium! Overall things are really looking great!

Thank you, Mike!  I knew you weren’t feeling up to par.  The bridge tracks are so close to the same height as the tracks that lead up to it, I didn’t notice the drop off of the diesel engine or the cars, only the steam engine.  I’ll work on it, but it may prove to not be worth it.

Great switch fix Mark. One of the problems that usually arises with any modeling of railroads are issues with switches. The plague of all great railroad builders.

Thank you, Dave!  Yes indeed; switches cause problems for modelers and the real railroad alike.  It is why some modelers don't use switches and just use one or more loops of track.

Since the high line track seems to be in good order, I decided to work on the two ramps or inclines as Woodland Scenics calls them.  You may recall, initially I used them on the layout, but found it a hassle to get the transition from incline to level track suitable so wheels don't derail at the top of the incline and pilots don't touch the rails at the bottom of the inclines.  For the rear incline, I can use most of it as is.

I decided to move the front one back near the rear one so I can model the river canyon scene where it can be seen.    I believe I am going to use risers and a wood roadbed, instead of the Woodland Scenics foam incline.  I remarked a day or two ago the grade will have to be more than 4% to get this to work out.  However, since the foam incline was in place, I removed it from it's place and moved it back.  I had to use a wide blade trowel and rubber mallet to remove the foam from the wood.  Wow, that carpenter's glue really held tight!!!  I selected various sections of foam and wood to get a rough estimate of the grade. Here is what my mock-up looks like.  You can see how much I moved the incline by the residue on the foreground wood from my battle with the rubber mallet.  And yes, I have plenty of clearance in the first photograph where one track crosses over the other.

I then assembled a couple trains and pulled them with various engines to see how they worked.  All is okay.  I would guess the grade approaches 5%, but doesn't look bad.

My next task will be to build the risers and roadbed to replace the Woodland Scenics.  I want to be able to see trains and get at derailments on the rear incline when I have my removable hillsides for track access.  I wouldn't be able to do that if I use the Woodland Scenics, then I would have to climb up on the fold-up step platform and lean over the layout to get at the trains.

Thank you again for looking and all the comments and 'Likes'!!! 

Mark Boyce.......A wonderful and complex layout. Your method is paying off, and this will look and function amazing. Thanks again for sharing. Looking forward to updates!

Mark,  I suggest you check the curve clearances on both the up and down ramps. I am thinking more to avoid hitting a support piece on a curve.  The good thing about the ramps is you will use them as a means to get from one point to the other and not as a continuously run section - I think! nice progress.

Were you able to move the incline tracks further "left" with the SCARM plan as a reference. That would provide more space.

Looking good Mark! I like the mock up idea! I find myself doing that a lot more lately as a option to try and save me time and money on wrong cut materials! LOL

I think your on a good plan. If your concerned about clearance on the incline at the curve you can always move the support one way or another as long as your not going to hit the bottom of the upper loop! LOL

Either way I will keep watching your wonderful layout project!

Thank you, LT1Poncho, Jeff, Mike!

I continued checking engines pulling on the grades and clearances.  The grades are fine.  I have no issues with height.  I won’t be buying modern hi cube cars or double stacks, so no issues there.  You may recall I moved a support because of clearance issues.  No doubt it is tight with the supports between tracks, but I don’t have any trouble with cab roofs .  The closest anything comes to the supports are the railings at either end of the SD9, and they don’t hit going either direction.  I was thinking my 3 sets of passenger cars are all 15”.  I pulled out the set of Lionel NYC Pullmans, only to realize they are 18”.  🙄  I just finished checking them being pulled by the SD9 and a Consolation.  Whew!  There is plenty of room!  I do have a NYC Hudson, but it is away right now for some work.  I am going to “””assume ””” it won’t require any more room than the Consolidation.  Famous last words!!  😄  I will take a video and post it before I put the 18” cars away again.  

Nice work Mark! Test and refit and test again. Thorough job and glad the relocation wasn’t too painful. I look forward to the video.

Andy

Thank you, Andy!

Here are 2 videos.  I intended it to be one, but had a bump in the road, so I just continued with a second one.  I have not spent any time trying to learn how to polish these up; there are too many other things I want to do.  The first shows the SD9 pulling the 18" cars off the high level, through the underpass under the engine facility.  Then something happened so I restarted to show the train going through the gauntlet of support posts.  Everything fits, barely.

I am thinking maybe I should have used 1x2s to support the upper level roadbed instead of 1" diameter dowels.  Oh well, I'm not changing it.  It will be too painful to go back underneath to take the screws out that hold the dowels.  I can see now, if we move and I build another layout, it will be even narrower shelves than 30" and will have no grades.  I'm not what I was when I started this layout. 

Here are a couple photographs to show how close I came to not being able to run these cars on the lower level.  It's funny, ever since I bought these from a Forum friend a year ago, I was thinking they were 15" instead of 18"!! 

Mark, the lamp on the observation car looks like a tight squeeze. If you have a Dremel or even a coarse wood file. You can notch the riser for a little added clearance rather than a re do with a 1x2.

Dave, thank you!  I didn’t notice how close the marker light was until I posted the photographs.  I have a Dremel.  That is a great idea to do some rough woodworking with it on the supports!  It is always good to post my mistakes here, since someone comes up with an idea!!  Thank you!

Wow a tight squeeze in places. Funny how photos show stuff we do not see with the eye. Looks like there are a few leaning supports - intentional or not?  I would dremel as much away as practical to give more clearance for those passenger cars. Regardless the track work looks great, nice smooth running.

I really like the fenced in yard which drops off into space in the back. Intended for someone in particular? 

Better put speed restrictions on that curve Mark. The MOW crew should make sure the road bed is rock solid too so the cars don't start rockin'.....

I agree that some Dremel surgery is in order. Looks good otherwise.

So a full loop around the layout on both tracks is next????

Bob

Thank you, Jeff, Bob!!

Yes Jeff, One support is cockeyed because it was in the way of the 18" cars so I cut it in half, removed the lower half, and left the upper half in place for the time being.  It was fine with the shorter cars, so I put down the roadbed and switch on top of the screw holding it in place, only to discover I had 18" cars that I mentioned yesterday that I didn't realize were so long. 

As for the fenced yard, that goes with the Woodland Scenics garage that I just set in it's place temporarily while construction was going on.  I ran out of room on the shelf where the other buildings are stored for safe keeping.  That is funny, though!! 

Bob, yes indeed speed restrictions all around.  I certainly won't be running passenger trains at prototypical speeds.    I have never liked running trains fast even when I was growing up.

I think it is unanimous that I need to break out the Dremel and start doing some carving on the supports.  When all is done, there will be a town supported on top at the level of the high line, so no one will see my 'groovy' pillars! 

Thank you for the comments!!!

A funny thing happened on the way to the carved pillars!  I was grinding away and all of a sudden the smoke detector right above where I was working went off.  I stopped and it quit.  So I opened the door and started the Dremel again.  The detector went off again.  By then my wife was yelling downstairs to call the security company before they called the Volunteer Fire Department.  I reminded her it was the detector in the addition that wasn’t tied into the security system.  It didn’t matter. I went over to the controller and no alarm showed.  That wouldn’t do, so I called them up and they verified no alarms.  I asked them to turn off monitoring.  Then I went to the toolbox in the garage, got out the rasp, and finished the job with it!  😆

I also finished removing the dowel that I had cut in half.  I think this looks a lot better.  All other clearances were trimmed a bit, but none needed what this one did!  👍🏻

I ordered the last two switches, a couple sections of track, and some more track pins.  I “think” that should complete the track purchases.  Notice I put “think” in quotes! 😆

@RSJB18 posted:

Better put speed restrictions on that curve Mark. The MOW crew should make sure the road bed is rock solid too so the cars don't start rockin'.....

Bob

A case of art imitating life...apparently the B&M RR had trouble with the Hoosac Tunnel when it received some large steam locos to alleviate WWI traffic problems.  Seems this particular type of loco (Texas 2-10-2 i think) would list to one side after some wear and tear.  The tunnel was double tracked and listing engines would side swipe ever so slightly those on the other track.

Good fix there Mark, I am glad you were able to make it work without the fire department showing up! LOL What you might do down the road is when you get to doing scenery you could just glue a small beaver there and put some wood chips on the bottom of the poll and if folks as you can say it that dang beaver! LOL

I am glad you were able to get the rest of your track ordered!

I don't know Mark, I think you should check the house for a wandering beaver or squirrel gnawing on your supports.

Nice work, Mark - you might want to consider adding this piece of rolling stock to your roster

Thank you, Joe, Mike, Jeff, Richie!

Joe, I have read of other places that have spot on clearance, so to speak. 

Yes indeed, if you had a bunch of trained beavers, they could do a lot of good on a railroad.  Trouble is where do you find trained ones.    I had better check the structural integrity of the house! 

One thing, this will be hidden from view except when I remove the town, so I didn't care how choppy it looks.  The angle was really bad for using the Dremel or rasp.

Richie, I think I have seen that car before here; maybe it was yours.  I would like to find one.  We have the squirrels that the dog chases.  I have a door and he has a door, thus this:

Mark, the adjustments work, that’s all that counts 😁. You can make them prettier if/when you want. Thanks for the videos. The comments from Mike, Jeff, and Richie did give me a chuckle. I think you need to get that box car now. And only we will know why you have it. 😉

Andy

@Mark Boyce posted:

Mark, just a glance at your train room would make me take an instant V line to it. Squirrel crossing LoL. I agree with Andy, these guys had me laughing too.

Thank you, Andy, Rich!

Yes I started to search for one of the cars the first time I saw it on this forum, then slowly forgot about it.  Now that interest is renewed, I must keep it in mind, because I am getting more absentminded.  😄  The layout and this forum help to keep me thinking!

I got the last two switches and some 054 curves yesterday.  I started fitting the first switch in, but have to modify the roadbed some.  I knew that ahead of time but wanted to see the switch to know exactly what I needed.  I could have used Ross’s template, but the real thing was on the way.

How close are we to the golden spike Mark??????

Inquiring minds want to know......

Mark,

That bridge of yours looks even more impressive at a distance ( through the door) than it does in the close ups. What an engineering job!

if I may ask, given your back and other issues, which I share,  where did you place your TIU DCS and TMCC terminal strips to ease access  I know I made it too hard on myself on my last layout, so I’m trying to do better on this one  

Rubin

Thank you, Bob, Rubin!

Bob, that is a good question.  There are several small areas that need finished before the Golden Spike is driven!

The first photograph shows I need to replace the mocked-up roadbed on the start of the far wall down ramp.  I was using some of the ramp I used for the downgrade that was against the wall.  Once a roadbed is in, I just need to cut one track section to length and it is done.

The upper left corner of this drawing shows how it will look. (Upper Loop Drawing)

Here I laid out a #4 switch and track on top of the track to get rid of the 042 switches that cause a bad S curve on the new lower loop.  I will then extend the tail track of the new curved yard around where the 042 switches are.  That is a bit of work.

The upper left corner of this drawing shows how it will look.  (Lower Loop Drawing)

Last, I need to finish the passing siding on the opposite side of the room.  That won't take much either.

Rubin, I decided to use the area under the pivot points of the bridges for back to back power boards.  I chose this location because I thought it was close to the most track switches and track power blocks for a minimum of wiring.  It kind of grew beyond what I ever expected! 

This side has the Z4000, TIU, PSX-AC1 fast acting circuit breaker boards at the top, and GunrunnerJohn watchdog signal boards to the left.

On the reverse side of the board are 3 AIUs, 10-volt solid state relay boards, terminal blocks and two radios to listen to Pittsburgh Pirates games.   (the portable radio in the front is easy to take outside working in the yard, but the older brown radio in the back gives better reception) The MRC power pack is providing power to the linear actuators for the bridges and something else which now escapes my mind!! 

Thank you, Mark. That really helps and gives me some good ideas. What are the PDX and the gGunner John boards? What do they do?

Do you control your turnouts from the remote through the AIU ONLY, or do you have a diagrammed control panel somewhere? I’m always afraid that I use the AIU only I won’t have time to throw the switch and return to the engine function.

Looking good Mark It is nice to see you getting closer and closer to getting all the track down!

Now your control panel area is just amazing! I need to do something like that, the problem is I am just not educated enough to this point to wire all that in. Maybe with help from the forum I will get it done! LOL

Thank you, Rubin, Mike!

Rubin, I thought you would be asking what the PDX and Watchdog Generator are, but I didn't have time to look up good discussions at the time.  We had good discussions about these on this thread before and when I installed them, but I needed to refresh my memory on the purpose of the watchdog generator.  So, the TIU puts out a watchdog signal to check for PS2 and PS3 engines.  It only does this once, and sometimes a PS2 or PS3 engine can come up in conventional mode instead of DCS mode. The watchdog generator puts out the watchdog signal about once a second.  So any PS2/3 engine parked on any yard siding will see it when the track is powered, and will come up dark and silent, instead of in conventional mode. Gunrunner John Will presents the application for the Watchdog Generator. https://ogrforum.com/...chdog-in-yard-tracks

The PDX was a mistype, I will correct that.  It is a PSX-1AC by American Hobby Distributors.  It is a fast acting electronic circuit breaker that is faster than a breaker or fuse.  A short circuit on the track trips that PSX-1AC breaker.  It can be set to auto reset, or reset it manually.  I reset mine manually.  I have one between each Z4000 output and TIU input.

If anyone can add to or correct my explanations, feel free to comment.  Also, Rubin or anyone who still has a question, please ask.

@mike g. posted:

Looking good Mark It is nice to see you getting closer and closer to getting all the track down!

Now your control panel area is just amazing! I need to do something like that, the problem is I am just not educated enough to this point to wire all that in. Maybe with help from the forum I will get it done! LOL

Mike, I was educated in electronics in he mid-'70s and worked 43 years in the field, and much of this electronics is new to me.  LOL  I couldn't for the life of me remember how the watchdog works in John's unit compared to the TIU.  The PSX-1AC made more sense to me, but I forgot what it was called!!  LOL  No wonder they pushed me out the door, and no one else would hire me!! 

Wow Mark, it is time for you to get ready to break out the Muppets.............."Moving Right Along!!!!" Haha. Things are coming together pretty good there Mark. Running sessions are not that far off now are they?

Mark, the golden spike is near. I like your power setup. Not surprised that it’s so well layed out and organized.

Andy

Thank you, Dave, Andy!!

Ha ha!  Dave I do remember the Muppets’ on that!  Yes it is close, if all goes well I should be able to get trains moving between levels before spring.

Saying spring, it looks like the latest winter storm is going to hit just to the north of us once again.  The freezing rain just turned to rain as the temperature goes up.  As most times Erie will get the snowfall and we get off the hook.  Strange winter.  All that to say no need for snow removal for me once again.  Maybe I can get in the train room today.  Yesterday I visited Mum and Dad at the personal care home.  At 92, they are both well!

Andy, I am a bit OCD, but my years at the power company and telephone company showed the benefits of neat wiring and the problems with messy wiring.  The power company guys are amazing with wiring, but some telephone not so good at places.  Actually, the panel proved to be too small, but as long as I document everything, it’s not bad.

We had a tornado pop up in Lawrence Township on 295. My brother works over by the Delaware River up from Lambertville. He said that they had hail and snow, after that, sunshine and warmth. Where I work it was warm, then we had rain around 3-3:30ish, and it was pretty cool when I left around 5. Got into the low 40's. Today is cold, tomorrow in the low 60's.

Mark, I was admiring your experience for sure! Our trades do pay off in some ways. Well done.

Andy

Thank you, Andy!  Well it gave me the money to buy this stuff!  😉  Kidding aside, I have been able to use a lot of employment knowledge in this hobby!  At least I can get the gist of what is being talked about with various new technologies, but certain principles seem to confuse me too!

I completed the roadbed and fitted in connecting track for the other transition from the upper loop to the other down loop.  I noticed two track section joints that may be kinked up a smidgeon.  Cars run okay, but I will have to check out how different engines operate before I move on to the lower part of the other ramp.

Get the track gang out there Mark to grind down those joints.😄

Jay, you are so right!  After I wrote my last comment, I revisited the layout and determined what you did!  The track gang has a little grinding job to do.  😄

Looks good Mark. Some adjustments now save you lots of headaches later.

Andy

Looking good Mark, just take whatever car you have that has the most wheels on it and run that over the joints and that will tell you how bad it really is! That is why I have been checking all my track with the 4-8-4.

Thank you, Andy, Mike, Jay!

I didn’t get it quite as smooth as I would like, but it is pretty good.  The problem was with the roadbed transitioning from level to the grade on the diverting side of the switch.  I shaved some off one place and raised it some another place.  Then I did part of it over again.  A passenger car with 6-wheel trucks handles it fine.  A H9 Consolidation handles it well at speeds well above what I normally run.  Never a hiccup.  I’m too tired to fiddle with a video, so here is a photograph!  😄

Give yourself, and the track gang, the rest of the weekend off.

@Mark Boyce posted:

...I shaved some off one place and raised it some another place.  Then I did part of it over again. ...

Mark, sounds like a great approach: easing in the Easement easing....   Seriously though, better to take off a little at time to get the grade transition the way you want it.

I'm also impressed at how you're still keeping your wiring runs so neat, despite adding more than you had originally planned for.

Thank you for the updates.  I'm enjoying watching your progress.  Please keep up the great work.

Mark, that is a tough transition location. I think you really need to be 10 to 12 inches away from the diverging portion before you begin the transition. I had a spot like that and could never get it right. My GS4 did not like that transition at all. Diesels seemed to have no problem.  From what I have noticed, the bigger the drivers the more sensitive they are to track imperfections - especially at grade changes or a bit of track twist. Maybe just me.

Snarky comment - do you have any new wood on the layout or anything longer than 12 inches. Quite a job of recycling.  Overall looking good.

Thank you, Jay, Steve, Jeff!

Good idea, Jay!  Yes, I worked hard trying to get that gang working well. 

Steve, The wiring is an issue.  I will be reassigning some of the wires.  Also, originally I had TIU 1 Fixed channel assigned to the mainline and TIU 2 Fixed channel assigned to all passing tracks and sidings.  Now with 2 levels and sidings on each, I need to rethink whether I want one channel for the upper level and the other channel for the other level.  Regardless, I will be able to keep the panel neat.

Jeff, you brought up some excellent points.  The roadbed and track isn't as easy for me to keep neat and functional as the wiring is.  I agree with you the transition to the incline is too close to the switch on this side of the layout.  I did a much better job of that on the first one on the other side of the room.  That one is in keeping with your suggested 10-12 inches from the diverging location.  I just matched up to the incline already in place, and that is why I had so much trouble.  I would need to raise the roadbed of the ramp at that end of the layout to make it a better transition.  I was looking at how to do that the best way.  It is worth the effort to pursue that this week before moving on to the next section of roadbed and track.  Thank you.

LOL Jeff!  You are correct, there isn't much new wood in this layout.  Before I started building, I deliberated over buying some kind of table saw.  I have never used any kind of table saw, and didn't see I would need one beyond building the layout.  Also, there was the problem, that I don't have any place to put one.  I finally decided to put the money towards some Mianne Benchwork.  I bought one of their kits, which is easy to setup, but has some limitations as expected.  After that, I cleaned out my Dad's workshop before selling their house, and brought a bunch of various sizes and lengths of wood home.  After evaluating what I had I decided it should be close enough to build the rest of the layout.  I was close; if you don't count the Mianne portion of the layout, about 90% of the rest is old wood.  Now I am down to a bunch of short scraps.  If I had started buying new wood, I wouldn't have bought all the track and switches yet.  Therefore, I may not have even undertaken the task of switching from the twice around to the lower and upper loops.  Who knows.    As always, thank you for asking the tough questions!  They are most valuable!

One more comment about the lumber.  I have found I can no longer control the hand circular saw even when using a fence or control the saber saw.  I now cut everything by hand, just like I did in my early teens when Dad had no power tools whatsoever.  It takes some time, but it is good exercise. 

Great progress Mark! Things are really moving ahead nicely. It is amazing how you have gone to different layout options and seamlessly fit them is as if they were planned for all along!

Hi Mark, Your transition looks good. It is not the easiest thing to accomplish since in real railroading, there is so much more distance to work with. I change elevations three times in my point to point layout and there was plenty of hair pulling until I got it right.  You will be pleased with your efforts when things operate smoothly. Bill

i got

Thank you, John, Bill!

John, I couldn’t have thought up this plan.  @ScoutingDad Jeff deserves credit.  He was able to see how to adapt without a lot of trouble.

Bill, there is very little distance for sure!  I did raise the roadbed leading up to that section as Jeff suggested.  It is sort of floating there and needs supported better, but it will work.

Good morning Mark, I am glad you had a chance to fix the problem, I am sure you will have it running smooth as silk! As for the used wood, I think a lot of people in this hobby use it. I know I bought new wood for my first try but everything from then on has been used or given to me.

Thank you, Mike!  I took Jeff's comment as a bit of a tease and a bit of just observation!  One thing with the old wood, I don't have a problem with warping like @BillYo414 Bill experienced with his plywood on his layout build topic.  Some of mine has been well seasoned for decades.    I did buy poplar 1x3s and 1x2s which seemed reasonably prices and one sheet of 3/4" 7-ply plywood that was a bit expensive, but worked well for some critical applications.

I forgot to mention, before tackling the final support of the ramp and finished the track and power drop for the passing siding.  I have not run a train over it, though.

Enjoying this thread Mark!  Looking good.

@mike g. posted:

As for the used wood, I think a lot of people in this hobby use it. I know I bought new wood for my first try but everything from then on has been used or given to me.

Mike, Mark had the intent right, it was an observation and bit of a tease.  For what its worth, I used some old wood I picked up in the 70s in my layouts. Its moved many times from home to home. I can't bear to throw that stuff out.  The pine boards from them have a much tighter grain than the new stuff and were far more dimensionally stable.  At the same time recycling has its limits and after a while too much splicing together produces marginal results. 

My former boss built his own log cabin in Western New York. Being frugal he bought a LOT of building materials on closeouts and other discounts paying a fraction of normal.  When it came to property tax assessment time, he convinced the assessor the house should be taxed at a lower rate due to all the "seconds" material.  From then on it was the "seconds house" to the assessor. 

I envy your lack of warping @Mark Boyce and I love the progress on your layout!

Thank you, Marty, Jeff, Bill!

Marty, I’m glad you are following along.

Jeff, I understand the benefits of lumber with tighter grain.  I like the story about the boss with the “seconds house”. 😄

It’s been a couple weeks since I posted here.  I finished my second ramp/incline, but it is too sharp a transition to the new switch at the bottom. Last night I removed all the screws holding the track and roadbed to the supports, bo now I need to move the supports to make the grade a little steeper and have a better transition. It’s not a big job at all.  I’ll post some photographs once I have it back together.

Another modeler commented on another thread about rebuilding some of his 'finished' layout, that the unexpected obstacles would be fun; maybe!   Converting my layout from a twice around over and under to a high line and low line with inclines in opposite directions has been filled with obstacles.  The first incline went fairly smoothly, while the second incline has been a a problem!  I had to increase the grade some to make it all fit, and have now done it three times to get the grade not too steep in one place.    I'll get some photographs when I get the lower end cleaned up.  You can't see the work for all the tools and extra track sections. 

Hey Mark, don't fret it! when it is time it will just pop into place, it is almost there it is just asking you to fiddle with it a little bit more! I can't tell you how many times I have redone my inclines. I swear it sure helped me having a hand planer to bevel the end meeting the main table.

Either way Mark, I can't wait to see your photos and progress!

Three times? You're just about an expert now!

Good to hear you're still moving along though

@Mark Boyce posted:

Another modeler commented on another thread about rebuilding some of his 'finished' layout, that the unexpected obstacles would be fun; maybe!   Converting my layout from a twice around over and under to a high line and low line with inclines in opposite directions has been filled with obstacles.  The first incline went fairly smoothly, while the second incline has been a a problem!  I had to increase the grade some to make it all fit, and have now done it three times to get the grade not too steep in one place.    I'll get some photographs when I get the lower end cleaned up.  You can't see the work for all the tools and extra track sections. 

Mark, all the problem solving you are doing is a further enhancement of your neuronal capacity.

Jay

Mark - just a suggestion. When I was laying out my "as installed" incline grade, I took height and distance measurements from one end to the other.  From there I was able to calculate grades.  It was much easier to see problems on paper. (I put a sample table on TPRR.)

From what I can "see", the transition grade should be no more than 1/4 inch for a 16 to 18 inch run (1.5% - 1.4% grade) and that is letting the plywood bend into the curve.  For the long wheel base steamers we have a little less than the height of the wheel flange to work with. We compound the problem with blind flanges on the middle drive wheels, so if we lift off one end the entire engine can slip to a side and derail when the wheels come back down.

Keep at it Mark, it will be worth it in the end. We’re all cheering you on.

Andy

Thank you, Mike, Bill, Jay, Jeff, Andy!

Jay, I need all the neuronal capacity I can get because it seems to be diminishing faster than it can be replaced.  

Jeff, you give good advice.  I think my problem is trying to reuse existing roadbed and track instead of just doing it all from scratch.  Also, my total length of the grade is about 12 feet if I leave a foot or so beyond the switches to the passing track that goes around the other side of the layout.  Another issue is I didn’t buy a table saw of any kind that would help me get nice square cuts.  I have always been extremely challenged in getting nice square cuts giving exact measurements using any kind of saw, powered or non-powered.  At least no one can call me a square!  😄  Bad joke, I know.

So with all those poor excuses, here is what I have come up with.  This is an overall view with my back literally against the wall.  Right now we are talking about the grade in the foreground that inclines from right to left.

Everything works really slick at this end of the grade.  The Consolidation pulls 6 hoppers and a caboose up around the curve like nothing.

The curve at the top makes the engine work quite a bit harder with the whole train on the grade and considering the extra effort needed on the curve.  At the bottom it draws about 1 amp.  On the top curve it draws about 3 amps!!  I don’t really like that.  

Since this grade is already about 6%, I hate to increase it anymore by leveling it off for the curve.  I could end the passing track around the curve which would put it right after the double track bridge, then move the switch at the top of the grade over about 18”.  Extending the grade, could lessen the steepness at the top curve, but decrease the clearance for the track below.  Another option is to use helpers on trains going up the grade like the B&O did on the mainline 1/2-mile from where I grew up.  We will see.  😊

Gee Mark - what happened? I don't see any grades that steep on  the SCARM model.  Use of helpers might be a good idea since this will "only be used to transition to the upper level?"  Otherwise reduce the clearance for the lower or drop the lower level a 1/2 to 1 inch if it would be too tight. Regardless - still looking good.

Thank you, Jeff!  Yes, another case of 😱🤪🤕  

Here’s a photograph of the whole end of the layout that I was referring to in the last paragraph of ‘what if’.  I held the phone high to get a better view of the track layout.

Helpers would be cool! I think it adds to the excitement of operation!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Look at that gorgeous glacier blue Ford pickup! LoL Everything is looking great Mark!

Thank you, Bill, Rich!

Jeff, here is a capture of the plan you sent me.

Here is what I changed, extending the passing track to the switches at the bottom of the drawing.

I built it as shown except I haven't finished in the area at the top where you marked 'Industry'.  That has no effect on the discrepancy in grade.  There is one issue, though.  I had already built the supports for the double track bridge, which ended up being 7" above Zero level, not 6".  That was something that reverted back to when I built the engine service area above the original short yard.  Evidently, when I was updating the as-built drawing 2 years ago, I forgot to update the elevation.  Now wonder they pushed me out with early retirement!!!!   I was aware, I was working with 7" not 6".  Nevertheless, I am not going back and changing that on the layout.

Bill, the helper operation is a fun thing to do with DCS.  As you may recall, my run with two engines on the point, and one helper in the rear.  My grandparents lived at the top of the Bakerstown Hill, I mentioned earlier (3 miles away from where I grew up ).  Grandpa had been a fireman for the B&O before he was disabled in WWI.  Once recovered from his injuries in 1925 on possibly until his death in 1952, he served as secretary for the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineer and Firemen Pittsburgh chapter.  He died 4 years before I was born, but Grandma had told my dad that he would lay in bed at nights listening to the sound of the engines coming up the hollow towards the summit either direction.  (This was my maternal grandparents)  Grandpa could tell by the sounds of the engines whether they were going to make it or have to signal by whistles for a helper.  The helper pocket and water tower was a half mile or so from my house in the opposite direction.  Interestingly, my paternal great-grandpa worked as a pump man at the helper pocket earlier on.  He would carry soup for his lunch in a Mason jar and walk through the woods and fields down to the tank.  The same woods and fields I tramped through as a teenager and young man.  I grew up in the same house Great-grandpa built in 1888.

Rich, yes indeed, the glacier blue looks great!  Many thanks!!   You can see I also got out the REA lit truck to apply power, but didn't get to it yet.  With these Menard's lit trucks, I am going to be shamed into lighting all my cars and trucks that are positioned on the road as driving, and not parked.  Another task to go with finishing changing the lights in my passenger cars and cabooses to LEDs.  I'll have to live to be 92 like my Mum and Dad just to get all the projects done!! 

Mark, things are looking up! Just remember to get it the way you need it to be, before you move on to other things. I am still learning that the track ride is everything!

I am sure you will get to that sweet point sooner then later!

Mike, thank you very!!  Yes, it is coming together slowly but surely!  I’m hoping to get trains running before much yard work comes into play.  PT will be consuming part of the time I had hoped to be working on the layout, but hopefully it will be a benefit for all activity in the future.

You’re very welcome Mark! Glad you like the truck! You can’t have your little residents driving around without lights! There’ll be more than just derailments happening! LoL

Thank you, Rich!  Here is another consideration.  None of my cars and trucks will look right if there aren't passengers in the cars that are supposed to be 'moving' down the roads or streets. 

I did some experimenting with trains on the inclines and finished laying track on a siding yesterday.  I was going to setup the DCS 'lash-up' where I had one Consolidation pulling and one pushing.  Well, I then recalled I had put the other Consolidation on the shelf because something had locked up in the mechanism.  I didn't want to investigate at the time.  My next option was to put an 0-8-0 switcher on the end for pushing.  As soon as I tried to setup the lash-up, I came to the selection for a DCS Lash-up or a TMCC Lash-up.  The Consolidation is DCS and the switcher is TMCC, so that won't work. 

I then selected the fairly new SD9 with two motors.  It pulled the train up the hill without breaking a sweat.  The ammeter read 0.7 amps the whole way up.  So, the heavy single motor Consolidation isn't as good at pulling by far.

I left the experimenting alone to cut and screw down two sections of track to complete all the track laying (for the moment).  That is, I may leave everything as is, or make some changes.  Regardless, I pulled out the Golden Spike for a pending ceremony!!

Here is what I have right now.  I will show with photographs how it differs from the SCARM design instead of combining parts of the old design (Plan D) with the new design (Plan E).  Here is a 'drone' view from the ceiling of the trackwork at the bottom of the grade we have been discussing.  You can see I left the two switches in place that had lead to the old single siding.

The nose of the SD9 is at the bottom of the grade.  The track that diverts at the SD9 cab is the lower mainline.  The two 042 switches that are back to back by the first two hoppers are the switches that I left in from Plan D which Jeff doesn't show in Plan E.  This is SCARM lower level capture from Plan E.  The above photograph is of the area where Jeff placed a suggested industry.

I could remove the two 042 switches and slide over 12 inches the switch that starts the grade.  I do not know if 12 inches would lessen the grade enough to bother with.  Secondly, I could remove the 042 switches since they are redundant because of the new switches that lead to the yard and industry siding on the left hand side of the drawing and in the lower left of the next photograph.

Does anyone see a reason why I should leave the 042 switches in place to provide some kind of run around?  I can't see any reason, but I am certainly not much higher than a novice at rail yard operations.  This is why I have reserved setting up a Golden Spike ceremony.

Thank you for any comments and critiques.  Criticisms are welcome as well. 

Mark - nice aerial view of the layout.  I've been trying to learn about switching yards, as up this this point I was really not interested in switching.  With your run around, you could lead a switcher into the double industry area at the "bottom",  back the freight cars into the runaround,  uncouple and run the switcher to the other side and then push the cars into the industry track. If you do not do that you would be forced to always having the switcher pushing into that area.

I take it you extended the upper section of track around the curve and under your station?  Of course then you could make another bridge to connect the lower track into a loop.  I've always considered my SCARM layouts a suggested plan, subject to change as I am laying in track.  I just did that with the TP build connecting the two tracks on the incline together and at the bottom to be able to lead in with an engine, run around and push into the yard. 

@Mark Boyce posted:

Does anyone see a reason why I should leave the 042 switches in place to provide some kind of run around?  I can't see any reason, but I am certainly not much higher than a novice at rail yard operations.  This is why I have reserved setting up a Golden Spike ceremony.

An extra run around is usually a good thing in my experience but that's all I can contribute haha

What are the dimensions for that industry area you have called out?

Thank you, Jeff, Bill!

Jeff, I think I will leave it as is for now and start wiring what is new.  Yes, I agree, when I previously built from a SCARM drawing, it didn’t work out exactly as planned.  Then I had ideas for changes as I went.  I eventually made an as-built drawing, but it didn’t have the exact alignment either.

Yes, I could do something like this and have a complete run-around track.

Placing that track section there for the photograph reminded me that I used all the track Andy sent me except for a section of Ross straight about 18” in length.  Thank you, Andy!!

I did have to buy 1 section of 054 curve, so I bought 2 of those and 2 flex sections just in case.  I do have 18 sections of 042 curves I never used that I can pass on to someone else.

Bill, the industry is a figment of our imagination right now.  😄  The space is 18” long and the end of the ties are 5” from the edge of the layout.  Of course right now the 042 switch fouls the middle of that space.  There is a space under the station that could be used as a little vignette.  

I tested all 10 of my command control engines pulling the same train up the grade. I discovered the first engine I tried is the only one out of the 10 that draws excessive current of just over 3 amps.  The others all draw between 1 and 2 amps.  Maybe I need to look at the Consolidation that drew over 3 amps to see if something is wrong with it.  If I can fix the Consolidation that the mechanism locked up, I would have something to compare it to.  It’s always something!  🤪

Mark, a hearty congratulations to you for what you've accomplished so far! Due to a variety of "life adventures" I haven't been on the forum here for I think almost 5 years. Back then you were a kindred spirit that was an inspiration to me, and now after spending a week going through all 88 pages, you've inspired me all over again. THANK YOU!!

You are making great progress Mark. Don't rush the golden spike....maybe use fools gold just in case........
I'd keep the pair of switches for a runaround for now. Operate the layout for a while and if they are redundant then you could pull them out later.

I would say that your Consolidations may need a trip to The Harmon Shops.......

Bob

Wow Mark! Looking great! Things have come a long way and you are making great progress!

Thank you, Slowhands, Bob, Lance!

Slowhands, I'm glad you are back!!  88 pages read this week!!  I never dreamed we would get this much content!  As you so, so much information was contributed by a host of forum members.  I'm glad we were able to inspire you!!

Bob, Thank you for the comment to leave the switches in.  I would never know how they work out unless I leave them in.  The spike is in it's protective box awaiting the right time!  Good idea about the Harmon shops.  Pat already has one of my engines.  I will await the damages on what I owe!   

Lance, thank you!

Today, put in the missing power jumpers to two yard tracks.  I realized a long time ago I had forgotten them.  I started checking off track blocks that have power and those that don't using a couple of SCARM printed drawings.  I also put away some tools and got others out to start wiring the blocks that don't have power.  Nothing to show in a photograph!

Mark, congratulations! It looks like you’ve arrived at a great solution. Thank you for the explanations and aerial views. I’m still in awe of the track plan and how much interest you’ve incorporated into this space. It’s been a great journey, and I agree with Bob, don’t rush the golden spike. I’m glad I could help your cause in some small way.

Andy

Andy, thank you so much!  I am thankful for DAZ Dave’s and ScoutingDad Jeff’s ideas and input for the track planning.  It is true I came up with some of it myself, but it wouldn’t be what it is without the whole community on this great forum!

As for my next part, I plugged in the 4th AIU and linked it to the TIU to make sure that works before mounting to the wood and wiring.  I also put in jumpers and started to wire them to the power.  The space is tight, but there is room for the wiring.  It reminds me of working in a tight cabinet for the power or telephone company.  At least this work is in a climate controlled room, and I have a double padded stool to sit on.  I don’t even want to think about some of the lousy places I have had to work in over the years.  Also, there are no mouse or wasp nests in this space!  😄  I have seen some real unhealthy cabinets over the years!  🤕😜

Mark I am so happy for you and how far you have come with your layout! The good thing about your next project of wiring is that you have many years of experience doing it. For me that is the hardest part! Anything electrical related I need step by step instructions and photos and videos don't hurt either! LOL

I might be hitting you up on your electrical skills!

Thank you, Mike.  As far as wiring goes, I followed a plan Bill Webb shared with me.  I’m glad to pass that along.

Since last post, I wired 6 blocks and then ran out of wire again.  I certainly missed that estimate 🤔 but didn’t want to pay for way more wire than I needed.  I ordered another 100 feet of red and black #14 AWG, which should be here early next week.  Today I did install 3 manual throws on the three new yard tracks neat the edge of the layout.  There are 3 new switches that have DZ1000 switch controllers to wire also.

Here is a photograph of how I connected the #14 feeds to the #18 drops from the track.  The larger red and black wires go to the terminal blocks near the AIUs, and the smaller white and black go to the rails.  The diode looking device is a TVS that can protect engine electronics from short circuits. I am using up the gray WAGO connectors I bought a couple years ago.  They are almost gone.  I have 2 boxes of the clear style that have levers that are easier to operate. 😊

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Mike.  As far as wiring goes, I followed a plan Bill Webb shared with me.  I’m glad to pass that along.

Since last post, I wired 6 blocks and then ran out of wire again.  I certainly missed that estimate 🤔 but didn’t want to pay for way more wire than I needed.  I ordered another 100 feet of red and black #14 AWG, which should be here early next week.  Today I did install 3 manual throws on the three new yard tracks neat the edge of the layout.  There are 3 new switches that have DZ1000 switch controllers to wire also.

Here is a photograph of how I connected the #14 feeds to the #18 drops from the track.  The larger red and black wires go to the terminal blocks near the AIUs, and the smaller white and black go to the rails.  The diode looking device is a TVS that can protect engine electronics from short circuits. I am using up the gray WAGO connectors I bought a couple years ago.  They are almost gone.  I have 2 boxes of the clear style that have levers that are easier to operate. 😊

That's a good way to add the TVSS diodes Mark.

Bob

Mark......great progress. I am considering TVS and I love how you have incorporated them.

Peter

Thank you, Bob and Peter!!  
Im not going to get much done today, unless it is to run a train over the newly powered rails.

Thanks for the offer Mark! I will be taking you up on it, Bob sent me a Xl file but said you had a bunch of photos. Right now all I know is red to center rail and black to outside rails! LOL (JUST BEING HONEST!)

Mike, I’ll take some good photographs after I finish wiring in the last 4 blocks.  Hopefully the wire will arrive tomorrow as scheduled!

I programmed and tested all the new blocks I had wired after PT today.  I also have to wire in the contacts to power the double track bridge when it is lowered.  I can wire in the new DZ1000s after I have trains running.  I need to come up with a couple panels for the DZ1000s and rewire all the push buttons when I do the new ones.

I received the roll of wire yesterday.  The remaining 4 runs of wire have been terminated, the AIU has been setup, and all blocks tested.  Here is a photograph of the AIU panel.  Mike, I’ll take photographs of individual items and their wiring another day.

Looks so professional Mark! I would show you my wiring, but I am really not sure what is what! LOL just kidding, but it doesn't look like your! More like NOODLES!

@Mark Boyce posted:

I received the roll of wire yesterday.  The remaining 4 runs of wire have been terminated, the AIU has been setup, and all blocks tested.  Here is a photograph of the AIU panel.  Mike, I’ll take photographs of individual items and their wiring another day.

Mark, that is a work of art-wow.

Jay

I echo all of those comments on the wiring. You're a Picasso with a schematic!

Loving the progress!

@Mark Boyce posted:

I received the roll of wire yesterday.  The remaining 4 runs of wire have been terminated, the AIU has been setup, and all blocks tested.  Here is a photograph of the AIU panel.  Mike, I’ll take photographs of individual items and their wiring another day.

@Mark Boyce

Mark:

That is a superb job of wiring. I have a question not directly related to your wiring. How do you attach the AIU's and TIU's to the walls of your connection enclosure? That is the one flaw in MTH design that I can find. The interface units have no screw holes for that purpose.

@Randy Harrison posted:

@Mark Boyce

Mark:

That is a superb job of wiring. I have a question not directly related to your wiring. How do you attach the AIU's and TIU's to the walls of your connection enclosure? That is the one flaw in MTH design that I can find. The interface units have no screw holes for that purpose.

Randy- I used 3M command velcro strips to mount my Cab-1L they work well.

Mark- the panel looks great. Bet your glad to have that job is behind you. Hope the PT is going well.

Bob

@Randy Harrison posted:

@Mark Boyce

Mark:

That is a superb job of wiring. I have a question not directly related to your wiring. How do you attach the AIU's and TIU's to the walls of your connection enclosure? That is the one flaw in MTH design that I can find. The interface units have no screw holes for that purpose.

I take the rubber feet off, and drill a hole trough the plastic.

Thank you, Mike, Jay, Justin, Randy, Bob, Marty!!

First off, I will address Randy's question, which Bob and Marty replied to.  Thank you both for chiming in.  For quite a while, I was like you Randy wondering why there weren't any mounting holes, slots, whatever.  I made my first board with only a TIU and Base 1 with Velcro just like Bob showed.  One day I mentioned the issue on the Forum, and was given the answer Marty shared.  Here I thought the holes in the front only allowed you to get a screwdriver in to remove the front of the housing to replace a fuse or whatever.  Actually, if you peal off the rubber feet on the back of the TIU and AIU, the hole is already there except I had some flashing on one AIU I had to drill out as Marty showed.  Otherwise, you just need a standard Phillips head screwdriver and some self tapping screws, or in a pinch, just press hard on the screwdriver until a regular screw gets a bite into the plywood. 

Mike, Thank you.  I'm not pulling out the boxes under the layout that are right behind the right side board so you can see all the wires coming in from all over the layout.  That was another problem besides running out of room adding to the scope of the layout.  They are crisscrossed in a rather haphazard fashion to enter the holes at the top of the panel.  Initially, I thought I would put the panel under the layout on the long wall underneath the two grades.  However the initial configuration had most of the switches on this one end of the layout, the little yard, engine service area, and one of two passing tracks.  I thought I would have less long wires, and this was the spot I could make the two sided board.  When I started the reconfiguration, I quickly realized, this wasn't the best spot, but I wasn't about to take everything apart and rerun all the wiring.  I have done that before at the power company when we moved 7-1/2 foot tall steel relay panels, and it is a mess to keep all the wiring documentation straight for the electricians.  Talk about using a lot of red and green pencils on the drawings!!  It can blow your mind!! 

Bob, yes I am glad this job is behind me.  I have the switch wiring to attack, but that is a project for next winter. 

Funny you mention PT.  I have completed 5 weeks, and the pain had really improved.  There are two issues.  I now have new pain in the thigh muscles mostly, but also in the hips when I first get up in the morning.  Yes, I have really put the muscles through the paces, so that makes sense.  However, I thought I lost strength in the legs.  Here the nerves to both legs have stopped responding to what the brain tells them.  It is worst going up stairs.  So now I am starting on new exercises to "retrain" the nerves as the therapist put it.  I am certainly glad I am retired now!!!!!!!    Time to go do my first of 2 daily exercise sessions. 

Thanks for the information Mark, I know about the mess that can grow under the layout. But the control area should be like yours to make trouble shooting easier.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Mike, Jay, Justin, Randy, Bob, Marty!!

First off, I will address Randy's question, which Bob and Marty replied to.  Thank you both for chiming in.  For quite a while, I was like you Randy wondering why there weren't any mounting holes, slots, whatever.  I made my first board with only a TIU and Base 1 with Velcro just like Bob showed.  One day I mentioned the issue on the Forum, and was given the answer Marty shared.  Here I thought the holes in the front only allowed you to get a screwdriver in to remove the front of the housing to replace a fuse or whatever.  Actually, if you peal off the rubber feet on the back of the TIU and AIU, the hole is already there except I had some flashing on one AIU I had to drill out as Marty showed.  Otherwise, you just need a standard Phillips head screwdriver and some self tapping screws, or in a pinch, just press hard on the screwdriver until a regular screw gets a bite into the plywood.

Mike, Thank you.  I'm not pulling out the boxes under the layout that are right behind the right side board so you can see all the wires coming in from all over the layout.  That was another problem besides running out of room adding to the scope of the layout.  They are crisscrossed in a rather haphazard fashion to enter the holes at the top of the panel.  Initially, I thought I would put the panel under the layout on the long wall underneath the two grades.  However the initial configuration had most of the switches on this one end of the layout, the little yard, engine service area, and one of two passing tracks.  I thought I would have less long wires, and this was the spot I could make the two sided board.  When I started the reconfiguration, I quickly realized, this wasn't the best spot, but I wasn't about to take everything apart and rerun all the wiring.  I have done that before at the power company when we moved 7-1/2 foot tall steel relay panels, and it is a mess to keep all the wiring documentation straight for the electricians.  Talk about using a lot of red and green pencils on the drawings!!  It can blow your mind!! 

Bob, yes I am glad this job is behind me.  I have the switch wiring to attack, but that is a project for next winter.

Funny you mention PT.  I have completed 5 weeks, and the pain had really improved.  There are two issues.  I now have new pain in the thigh muscles mostly, but also in the hips when I first get up in the morning.  Yes, I have really put the muscles through the paces, so that makes sense.  However, I thought I lost strength in the legs.  Here the nerves to both legs have stopped responding to what the brain tells them.  It is worst going up stairs.  So now I am starting on new exercises to "retrain" the nerves as the therapist put it.  I am certainly glad I am retired now!!!!!!!    Time to go do my first of 2 daily exercise sessions. 

Mark,

Your work is just impeccable! How do you label the wires so that you can identify them out under the layout?

As I continue planning my new layout, I am more and more focused on whether my 20 year old z4000, TMCC and DCS components will perform. Yours seem to be doing well, which is very encouraging, especially since nothing new is being manufactured at present and the new Base3 seems designed to give us to use our IPADS, etc for control.
Good luck with your latest bout of PT. I’m doing very well after two knee replacements but getting PT for my arthritic hips. I marvel at how you can get down and under your layout to get things running and wired, not to mention building that entry lift bridge. Very impressive! I hope I can do as well  

Thanks for sharing  We all benefit from your generosity and know- how.

Rubin

Thank you, Mike, Rubin!

Yes it is a mess!   I don't have anywhere to put all this stuff.

Rubin, as you can see, I would not get under the layout easily.  I run wires along the front edge of the layout where I can easily reach them.  In places where I can reach through the bench top, I stand and connect the main runs to the drops from the track.

For this upper level that has a full tabletop underneath, I set the spool of wire on top of the layout and pulled the wire to the  the gap shown.  Then I pulled the wires through to the other end of the layout where they were terminated while standing in the middle open area.  There were only a couple of runs where I had to move something and reach in while sitting on the rolling stool to do wiring.

As for labeling, I did not label any wires.  I didn't find it feasible to label the wires underneath if I can't reach them anyway.  I have printouts of the track plans that have number and letter designations beside each track section.  I listed all of them on a sheet of paper, and then listed the terminal block number, AIU, number, and relay number along side of that.  I can use the drawings and chart to located any wire.  If I have a time when I have an open or short circuit and need to get at a WAGO connector underneath the layout, I will get one of the daughters or sons-in-law to come over and do my crawling for me.  There is an advantage to having them all live within 2 miles from our house.    I don't like to wear out my welcome, though.  The layout has been built 100% by me.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I received the roll of wire yesterday.  The remaining 4 runs of wire have been terminated, the AIU has been setup, and all blocks tested.  Here is a photograph of the AIU panel.  Mike, I’ll take photographs of individual items and their wiring another day.

Mark, are you a retired phone tech? That's some outstanding work, it reminds me of the quality work the twisted pair techs used to do.

Dave, you guessed well.  Thank you!!  I am a retired power company controls technician, and retired telecom technician and engineer.  Yes, two pensions.    I moved into engineering when I was 51.  Wow, that was 15 years ago already!!

I learned being neat working at the power company in my earlier years.  Power company work was much neater than telecom, which says a lot.  The earlier power controls panels, when they still used waxed string to tie wires, were works of art.  Making changes on those panels, no matter how neat you were with plastic cable ties, were not as neat as the older panels from the 1960s and earlier.  As for the phone work, most twisted pair wiring was very neat as well.  As I mentioned to Rubin. none of those wires were tagged; good record keeping was a must.  When there are so many wires in a small space, tagging becomes a nightmare.

Mark things are really coming together. I agree with everyone on your wiring… fantastic job.

Mark, excellent wiring work. I find myself going back to the picture and staring 😳 great overall control center. Neat and organized, wow.

Andy

Great looking work Mark, don't worry about a mess, I think most of us with limited space have the same problem!

Got a question, do you know if your lighted switch controllers will work with MTH switches?

Thank you, Bill, Andy, Mike!

Bill, many thanks for the information on setting up the AIUs and relays last year!  You were right in saying I would use the spare AIU before long!  😄

Andy, yes the panel looks a lot better than the mess underneath the rest of the layout.  I admit I was really shortsighted on the amount of space I would need!  Some areas of it are hard to work in. 🤕

Mike, I do have a lot more boxes in a very large plastic bin that is behind the brick wall in the laundry.  It was hard to find a place for all of them!

I don’t know if you can use the DZ1000 control button units on MTH switches.  I don’t know what circuit is in those little push button units.  I have never seen the Scale Track switches.

@Mark Boyce your wiring is absolutely amazing! Mine is already starting to look like a big spiderweb so I definitely need to address this mess before proceeding with my wiring. It’s so shameful I’m not even going to post a picture! 😂😭

Thank you Rich!

It is only fair to Rich and everyone who has commented on the wiring for me to show the back side of the panels.

I had to sit on the stool and stretch my hand as far back to the wall as I could to get the above photograph.  This is the problem with the location I selected for the panels.  It is at the Tee in the benchwork.  Nice for front access, but it wasn’t worth trying to get things neat back there.  😄

Still looks great Mark, but I do have to admit it does make me feel a little better!

The progress you made looks great! I'm glad to hear your PT is going well.  Hang in there!

-Greg

Thank you, Mike and Greg!

Mike, I thought I needed to give some moral support to everyone who may have been intimidated by my wiring.  I always feel sad that I have never been able to cut wood straight and square, though I don’t have access to any kind of table saw.

Greg, yes the pain has subsided a lot.  Now if I can get the nerves in my legs to wake up and move me around, I’ll be much happier!  😊  I did not understand what was going on with my legs after my lumbar fusion in May ‘21.  Same situation now.  🤷‍♂️

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Mike and Greg!

Mike, I thought I needed to give some moral support to everyone who may have been intimidated by my wiring.  I always feel sad that I have never been able to cut wood straight and square, though I don’t have access to any kind of table saw.

Greg, yes the pain has subsided a lot.  Now if I can get the nerves in my legs to wake up and move me around, I’ll be much happier!  😊  I did not understand what was going on with my legs after my lumbar fusion in May ‘21.  Same situation now.  🤷‍♂️

Don't worry Mark, it is getting harder and harder for me to cut straight or square stuff anymore also!

Mark the backside of your wiring has calmed me down a bit. I’ll still be lucky if mine turns out like that! LoL.

I’m now thinking about the few tight areas under my layout that I’m going to try to avoid wires. The layout I’m building has definitely gained a lot more wire compared to the last. I’ve picked up different types of wire holders, zip ties, etc. I’ve recently seen the pipe holders idea for wiring and I’m going to pick a few of them up. It’s a work in progress with some excellent learning experiences!

Thank you, Mike and Rich.

Mike, I can believe you when you say it is getting harder for you too.

Rich, I decided to use pipe clamps for the latest wiring instead of wire holders.  I would have bought plastic, but my local hardware store only had very large plastic clamps and metal conduit clamps.  Plastic is probably better in case a wire gets nicked, but since they are right in easy view, I decided to use the metal.  I only used one screw so it was easy to put the wires in the holder.

Morning Mark, I am just wondering what you are using the phone wire for?

That’s exactly what I’m aiming for Mark! I didn’t even consider the plastic over the metal but will now. Thanks!

Congrats!

Peter

Thank you, Mike, Rich, Peter!

Mike, that is 3 conductor stranded wire I used for the DZ1000s.  I used it all up and have 2 additional DZ1000s to wire.  One is a short run.  I may use three single strands of wire instead of buying the 3 conductor, which wasn’t cheap.

Hi Mark, I have a bunch of 8 conductor phone wire I use to reach my buildings with LED's Works great!

I have phone wire as well.  Wiring lights!  That’s another item!  I have never wired lights on a layout before.  Should be easy after the DCS wiring.

Mark we run a series of terminal strips around the layout for LED lights. Each building is wired and two wires are used to go to the terminal strips. Our building LEDs are divided into day and night, day only, night only, floodlights, Miller signs, and misc (vehicles, smoke collector, burn barrel, inspection pits, are examples).

They are controlled by the DCS remote. We used wall worts for power and used a relay like we did on the track power to make sure that there are no AIU problems.

We light all our buildings and often use different colors for different times like red in a control tower at night for visibility.

They have been easy to connect and work great.

We are discussing controlling the roundhouse and passenger station separately but so far have not seen the need. Computer control would be fun to do but that is beyond us. We need to find someone who knows how to handle this. Many of our buildings are divided into sections and would be easy to control.

Have fun.

Wiring look nice Mark.  Good job.

Tom

Thank you, Bill and Tom!

Bill, that is a good plan so that not all lighting is the same, that is all on or all off.  Yes, controlling them with the DCS remote would make it desirable to run the circuits through the relays in case of problems.  Thank you!

Tom, thank you for commenting!  I don’t recall seeing you post for a while, but have thought of your long distance layout building from time to time.

Hi guys, I love the idea of running the lights threw the AIU, but for now that is still out of my realm! LOL I still have to get to the point where I am hooking up the AIU for the switches! LOL

Mike, I have no idea if I will use the AIUs for lights or not.  At this point, I’ll just plan for wires and see what happens!  I do have a WIFI TIU on order.  If I like the wifi control, I’ll see if I want to control them that way too.😄

I will be watching as I have a lot to learn about a AIU!

Mark and Mike,

Within the past 2-3 years Bill Barrett wrote an article in OGR with regards to how to do this. Not using this technology I thought it was interesting but beyond me at this time.

Jay

Mike and Jay, I think the lighting circuits Bill did would be set up the same as we did for the track power routing.  They would just use a different power source.  How many LEDs go on each power source would need to be calculated.

Jay, I will have to look up Bill’s article.  Thank you

Jay, it took me a week, but I finally looked up Jim Barrett's article.  It is in Run 315, December 2020 January 2021.  I see it is the last of Jim's article.  The next issue is the tribute article by Rich Melvin.  Thank you for pointing it out.  I had totally forgotten about it.

Thanks Jay, like Mark, I’ll review that article too.

Andy

For the last couple weeks, I have been setting up all the track blocks in the DCS remote, running trains to test track and engines, and documenting the wiring.

The high line and 'water level' line are all working well, as is the long passing track and grades connecting the two loops.  I have used some pretty heavy trains with different engines and consists.  This has been far from exhaustive, but all seems to be working well, except for an occasional slight derailment, usually caused by me forgetting to throw a switch.    I have corrected a few places on the track for more consistent running.  I have not really checked out the new yard other than checking for power.

Besides naming each track block in the remote, I made up 'scenes' to select a group of blocks at a time.  Those include 'High Line', 'Low Line', yards, engine facility, passing track.  They work nicely.

I also made my rough draft documentation.  I printed out the top and bottom layers from SCARM and labeled each section and where the power gaps are with pen.  I still need to make a track correction in SCARM and add the track block numbers.  I also made a list showing each section, the number and name of each in the remote, and the terminal numbers on the terminal blocks, relay boards, and AIUs.  I will make a spreadsheet with this information on the computer, print it out, and also save it for posterity.

Thank you for taking a look see!!

Looks great Mark! Another in person visit to be planned when you have an open house.  Jeff

You can’t deny you didn’t enjoy running those trains, LoL.
Glad everything is running smoothly for you. Very nicely organized and documented too. Thanks for sharing Mark!

Looks like you got things coming along nicely Mark. Running sessions are in the near future with just a bit more elbow grease(and a couple of squirts of oil).

Mark your layout is looking so good! I am also glad things are running smoothly and things are working good! As you know I have a lot of wiring to do and just thinking about it makes my head hurt! LOL

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Mike, Rich, Peter!

Mike, that is 3 conductor stranded wire I used for the DZ1000s.  I used it all up and have 2 additional DZ1000s to wire.  One is a short run.  I may use three single strands of wire instead of buying the 3 conductor, which wasn’t cheap.

Mark - if you have extra 4 conductor phone line, maybe just use three of the wires to connect your DZ's and snip the ends of the 4th wire off. It's not stranded, but still probably easier than running 3 individual wires.

@Richie C. posted:

Mark - if you have extra 4 conductor phone line, maybe just use three of the wires to connect your DZ's and snip the ends of the 4th wire off. It's not stranded, but still probably easier than running 3 individual wires.

No, bend back and insulate it; it will ba a spare in case one of the other ones gets broken somehow.

Thank you, Jeff, Rich, Dave P, Mike, Richie, Dave!

Jeff, open house!  Oh my!  Remember how small the room is!  One or two at a time, and beware of the bouncer, Bentley!  🐶  Kidding aside, it would be nice to share it with someone.  My wife looks in the door or the window from the laundry.  No one else has seen it except our younger daughter and son-in-law, and they don’t want to watch trains, she just likes the bridges that go up and down.  😄

Rich, it is nice when the derailments or unplanned engine stops lessen!

Dave, I need some squirts of oil in my joints!  😄

Mike, yes thinking about the wiring can be daunting.  For me, thinking about getting the track smooth was daunting!

Richie and Dave, I have phone wire.  When I worked at the phone company, there were always lots of scraps.  Yes, we always wrapped the spares back over the outer jacket.  At the power company, spares were left hanging straight down.  Of course that was #10 thick jacket outdoor wire.  We don’t need that  😄

Next up are a couple little projects for Mike.

Several of you have mentioned Golden Spike videos and even live streams.  Both ideas sounded great, but I finally determined I wasn't going to be able to pull off the logistics of that anytime soon.  It's not a technical issue, but physical mobility issue on my part.  I hope to do something in the future.

Instead, I decided to take some still photographs of the Golden Spike, so I can move along.  This photograph shows the general location of the true Golden Spike on the track below my official Golden Spike.

I think this photograph depicts a more interesting perspective.  How did P&LE get in there anyway??   I need some paint.  Actually, I have been thinking of making the lower bridge a deck girder bridge to cover up the wood board the track is fastened to.

When I set the Golden Spike on the bridge, I thought there was a good chance I would forget it when I raised the bridge.  I was correct.  It surprised me as it slid and then make a clunk sound.  Sure enough, a corner broke off, and I have yet to find the small shard. 

Here is one last photograph with an overall view of the two grades.

I have realized I am coming back to a side theme that was a major theme on my N-scale WM-B&O layout from 30+ years ago.  Both railroads followed and crossed each other, so the high and low lines can sort of remind me of that from days gone by.

Congratulation Mark! Your layout looks great! Now your almost ready to start the stuff the brings it to life! A lot of folks feel your next step is the best part! Either way I wish you luck and will keep watching!

Congratulations Mark. I actually enjoy building benchwork and laying track. Not so much wiring. Nothing is more rewarding in a layout build than doing scenery. You then start to see the layout really come together. Looking forward to your next chapter of the build in getting it sceniced.

Congrats on hitting this milestone Mark. I went back to your first post on the topic....6 years and counting. You have been on quite a journey.

Sit back and enjoy the moment 'cause there's more work to do......

Bob

Congratulations Mark, and as Bob mentioned “… 6 years and counting “. This has been an educational journey for us as well as you graciously shared what worked and didn’t. We look forward to what comes next.

Jay

Congrats Mark!! That's such an awesome milestone and it looks great!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Here is one last photograph with an overall view of the two grades.

I just have to ask; Just how do you get those cars off of the upper shelf?

Congratulations Mark!  Great work.  Thanks again for sharing your progress with us.  The Golden Spike is very cool too.

Looks great Mark! Congratulations! Can’t wait to see the scenery starting soon! As others have said, 6 years is quite the journey. Keep up the great work!

Great Job Mark!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Several of you have mentioned Golden Spike videos and even live streams.  Both ideas sounded great, but I finally determined I wasn't going to be able to pull off the logistics of that anytime soon.  It's not a technical issue, but physical mobility issue on my part.  I hope to do something in the future.

Instead, I decided to take some still photographs of the Golden Spike, so I can move along.  This photograph shows the general location of the true Golden Spike on the track below my official Golden Spike.

I think this photograph depicts a more interesting perspective.  How did P&LE get in there anyway??   I need some paint.  Actually, I have been thinking of making the lower bridge a deck girder bridge to cover up the wood board the track is fastened to.

When I set the Golden Spike on the bridge, I thought there was a good chance I would forget it when I raised the bridge.  I was correct.  It surprised me as it slid and then make a clunk sound.  Sure enough, a corner broke off, and I have yet to find the small shard. 

Here is one last photograph with an overall view of the two grades.

I have realized I am coming back to a side theme that was a major theme on my N-scale WM-B&O layout from 30+ years ago.  Both railroads followed and crossed each other, so the high and low lines can sort of remind me of that from days gone by.

Looks great, congratulations.

Excellent job on the organizing wiring and your meticulous documentation. Congratulations on the Golden Spike! It's been fun to follow along. I look forward to future progress.

Andy

Thank you, Mike, Dave C, Bob, Jay, Bill, Dave, Steve, Rich, John, Eric, Andy!!!!

I do look forward to building scenery.  That is my favorite part of the hobby; besides running trains and building buildings.  It almost makes me sick it has taken me 6 years to get to this point!