New ZW-L

For the same reason we can't build TV's,cellphones,blu ray players,computers,cameras, videogames........

Good point. Fighter Jets are small runs and VERY expensive. Mass produced items are a harder challenge for the US.

Actually, it wasn't anywhere near $24K. According to U.S. Dept. of Commerce figures, the average income of families in 1960 was $5,600.00.

All you guys are too young!!! When I graduated with a BS in EE in1948, I took a job for about $1900/year. I would have been "rich" if I made $100/week.

 

Even now, I think that $800 for a variable transformer is ridiculous ?! I do spend quite a lot on other O gauge stuff, however.

 

 Charlie N 

I remember that in the mid 50's or so a person in the trade unions made about $100 a week. 

I picked one up today. I am going to replace 8 bricks with it to see if its up to the task.

 

(4 mainlines).  I have to say it IS a beast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The circuit breakers look to be the slow mechanical type by the look of the push buttons. Is that so?

Also i wonder if the current meter is accurately for just one output as opposed to the previous version of meters for the earlier ZWs. The early meters were not isolated as to one channel. All the U terminals were connected before the metering which gave an erronious current reading.

It's alive!!!!!

But it is neat.

Thanks for posting...now I want one regardless of the details

CJack ,

Just getting started here but there are 2 layers of protection for shorts.

 

Gonna replace all this , well most of this . Be nice to have all the mainlines under variable voltage . Have to rethink the whole control panel design.

 

Looks like you could put the old one inside the new one.

 

 

CJack go watch Lionel's/Mike Reagan's video about the ZW-L I think it will answer those questions

I set mine up this week.  It replaced two ZWs and a MTH Z4000, plus I was able to eliminate five powermasters.

 

Neal Jeter

There's also a lot of very useful information in the ZW-L instruction manual too. (Available  on-line on Lionel's website.) 

Also i wonder if the current meter is accurately for just one output as opposed to the previous version of meters for the earlier ZWs.

There are two meters for each output: one voltmeter and one ammeter.  They reflect the voltage and amperage of the two main outside throttle levers unless you touch an inner lever at which point they will reflect the voltage and amperage for that output.  Very nice and works very smoothly and reliably.  The meters are nicely illuminated and easy to read. 

Lionlman,

  Does that mean you can run conventionally with just a CAB1 and the ZW-L? No command base required?

 

The ZW-L has a command or conventional switch.  You can run conventional without a command base but you will have to use the throttles on the ZW-L to control the trains.  A CAB-1 only works with a command base unless I am mistaken.  To run in command mode you need to run a wire from the Legacy command base to a terminal on the ZW-L.  The ZW-L will then send the signal out through all four throttles.  

 

Neal Jeter

AMD, or formerly AMD, now Global Foundries recently built a 1.6 billion, yes that is a b, plant about twenty minutes from me in upstate NY.  There was a rumor Apple was looking at building a plant here as well. Maybe Lionel llc will be next, who knows? Fred

Bradfish. No you can't run conventionally without a command base. The new ZW-L operates just like the ZW-C. There are 4 powermaster circuits inside but the transformer gets it's signal from the command base through the track common.

Ron

Actually 3 layers of protection . Mechanical  breakers are the last in line.

well got it all hooked up. WOW

 

MY Humble take:

 

Originally i had 4 mainlines with each split into 2 halves. For a total of 8 sections.8 bricks. I was really worried about

A) Having only 620 watts  4 channels to run  4 mainlines which one of the mainlines now would have to include the yard.

B) Would my engines smoke as heavy as they did with the 2 brick per mainline 19.2 volts.

 

My buddy from the club came over to help me . We basically unplugged all 8 bricks.

Plugged both halves of each mainline into 1 channel on the ZW for a total of 8 blocks into 4 channels.

 

We got readings from 17.6 volts to 18.6 volts. Alot higher then what Ive read so far.

 

We ran this all at once trying to "overload" the transformer and decide if i would need another one.

TR1 -   9 car  18" madisons pulled by Odysee 4-6-2  and a Lionel N&W 1218

TR2  Vision genset with 3 passenger cars and Lionel N&W J with 8 more passenger cars.

TR3  Double headed Lionel Y3Y6  30 4 bay hoppers pushed by Lionel N&W mallet

TR4  CC2  pushing 40 cars with Vision Challenger

 

Thats 20 passenger cars and 14 smoke units and working.  I was suprised to say the least and the engines put out the same heavy smoke they always did.

 

My favorite feature about the transformer besides it just a brute, is how all the meters interact with the legacy. Hit TR2 on Legacy remote and  the gauge switches to TR2 and shows the status.

 

We purposely caused a long short and the appropriate meter Gauge turns off so you know what track it is 1-4.

 

 

 

Track 3 short. Pres Aux 0 and the meter light comes back on.

 

 

It was getting late but what Ive seen so far -extremely well built - and well thought out.Works as advertised and better.

 

Only complaint I have which has been around since the original ZW   is -- I read Left to right ABCD  or 1234. Wasnt an Issue with the old one cause you could wire them the way you wanted ,but now track 1 starts on the right and goes up moving left, cant change that.

Oh look at that on the box 50/60Hz. Nice job lads.

 

Nick

Sorry again I missed a fun eve of running trains and checking out the new ZW.

One thing I couldn't tell from the video.

When you touch the B throttle to bring up the B voltage and current, does it stay until you touch the A again, or do you have to keep your finger on it?

I read the manual...looks like you have to keep your finger on it or adjust it with the cab. Hmmm...

Seems like with a Legacy layout, it would be nice if you could assign the meters to B and C and touching or adjusting the A or D would switch the meters...since B and C are the only channels that can come up to 18 vac when you turn the thing on...and you have to run the A and D up anyway with the cab.

Just sayin'

I don't believe you Patrick, I want video proof!

I saw one at my LHS and played with it a little.  2 things I noticed.  The handles were not as tight as the prototype I played with at York.  They seemed to have excessive play if you jiggled them left to right.  For some reason I remember the super tight handles sticking out in my mind at York.  They seemed more rock solif on the prototype.  Has anyone seen this one the ones they bouhgt?

The second thing is the analog meters seemed to have a delay in their reaction time when you move the handles.  Is that because they are analog?

This particular model we have isnt as tight as the one at york, however isnt what i would call Jiggly like the modern ZWc.Somewhere inbetween.

 

Also someone mentioned that you have to use the handles for conventional running? We ran a plane jane williams all the way around all 4 mainlines with Cab1 and 2, maybe i am confused about the statement.

 

My specific application was this.

Assign TR1 to ZW. Turn all handles to max. Depending on what you want to run on each of the four channels you just address that track and turn the channel to desired voltage.

 Cool. The pic above also shows the meter goes black when there is a short to identify the short in the track.

 

Each time you address a track the gauge meters  instantly show that track on the meter and the meter  gets brighter.

 

Meters on right brighter indicationg this track is being commanded, then goes back to normal when done being addressed.

 

 

If I read the referenced comment correctly, I think the comparison was to original Powermasters that could function with the remote without the command base.  I think that's why one response said you needed to use the handles to operate conventionally (assuming you had no command base).

 

Somewhat related, I'm still curious how the physical position of the handles plays into things when using TMCC or legacy to control the output level for each throttle.  For the old ZW, you had to set the handle to whatever you wanted the maximum output voltage to be. 

 

Once you did that, handles A and D would start at 0 volts upon power up and the voltage could be adjusted up to wherever the handles were set.    Handles B and C would start with whatever voltage the handles were set to and you then had to dial it down with the remote.

 

I read through the manual on line and didn't immediately see any mention of this type of behavior(it's possible I read through it too fast I guess).  I'm hoping that means the handle position is not relevant, and you can control all 4 starting from 0 volts.

 

Is this how it worked when you did your testing?

 

Thanks.

 

-Dave

I believe Mike's video reported that the same on the ZW-L

On the other hand...

 

You can buy two Z4000 MTH transformers for about $800 and get 8 meters, four 180 watt variable outputs operated by each their own handle. Also fixed outputs of two 10 vac at 3 amps ac , and two 14 vac at 3 amps ac. Thats 800 watts total.

 

...as my prewar Lionel train friend suggested.

 

Also, the Legacy CAB emergency stop will stop the engines although it won't zero the track voltage...but then the Z4 has excellent electronic short protection.

You can buy 4 williams engines for the the price of a vision engine to.

 

 

ZW-L is for Legacy users.   4 TPC Units and 4 Bricks and 4- short protectors - all bundled into 1 unit.To each his own.

 

.

Not sure why so many think that the modern ZW's and the Z4000's are completely interchangeable in every scenario?

I run only Lionel TMCC, Legacy and some postwar conventional. The ZW-C and/or ZW-L allow me to have remote control of postwar motive power with no additional power masters or other hardware. 

Dropping the Z4000 in it's place wouldn't provide the same versatility.

To me, the ZW-L is like the full size Hummer SUV. It's big. It's brutish. It's overpriced. It will definitely get the job done, but its totally unnecessary for every day use.

Yikes! $699 for a transformer? I can buy two new Z4000s or three used Z4000s for that money.

Well...I didn't mean to say it was equivalent. Just sayin' though. One thing that I thought about is that I probably wouldn't want to have to buy a spare like I have for some other Lionel items. So I was thinkin'...hmmm...two Z4s and it's kind of covered!

Certainly it is not Legacy, but you can get the MTH remote thingy for it.

The MTH remote thingy is rumored to be on it's last legs in terms of availability.  Supposedly last April catalog offering was for the "last run" at the factory (parts obsolescence).  It was then offered in the October catalog as well though.

 

Someone (might have been Barry) explained this back around early last year when this came up.

 

So if you don't already have the remote thingy or have one on order, you might have difficulty finding one. 

 

It also adds significant cost to each Z4k.  If you have a previously purchased stash of receivers, it might not be excessive for each transformer, but the only way the remote is offered recently is the receiver combined with the remote (they had originally offered the receiver alone in April 2012, but then cancelled the stand alone item).  So to outfit 2 Z4Ks, you need 2 remote/receiver pairs at MSRP $150, even if you apply a decent discount you'd probably pay at least $250 for 2 sets to go with 2 Z4ks.  With that, I think you've just hit the ZW-L price.

 

-Dave

Got my ZW-L, few questions:

- Has anyone tried it with the CAB2, does your show it in TMCC/CAB1 mode? Should the voltage read back on the CAB2 remote anywhere?

- When using with CAB2, do I need to keep the throttle at 18v? Or can I leave it at 0v and control it exclusively from the CAB2?

- What do I have to do to start power on the track? I assigned the ZW-L the ID of TR 10 (11,12,and 13) and it seems I need to "start" it like a Locomotive before any power shows on track. Does that sound right?

 

The manual leaves a lot to be desired!

 

Thanks,

Timmy

 

Things a Beast.

But it does have the great advantage of that you are very unlikely to misplace it.